Hi all,

Thought I'd start a thread to document our progress with this car. We have recently acquired a 2013 JCW that is completely stock and has about 22K miles on it. First thing we did was to throw it on a Maha dyno where it produced 193whp/180wtq on 91 octane.

Next we did some Vbox testing to get some real world results that we could re-test at any time. We chose to document and log runs from 40-80mph so that a shift would not influence results and did a few runs with sport on and off. All of them were pretty consist averaging between 6.1 and 6.2 seconds. Here is a screen shot of the best one. FTR, it was approx. 53 degrees when this was taken.



Our goal as of now is to max out the stock turbo with sufficient amounts of octane (ethanol) and we'll most likely find the fueling limitations in the process. To get started we have been in touch with EuroTechs here in Tempe, AZ and they will be assisting us with some upgrades.

To start with this next week they will be installing a Forge FMIC, Mynes Catless downpipe, and a new Manic tune. Post install we'll do some more Vbox runs with the new base tune on 91 octane. Once we've gathered enough data we'll start adding ethanol to the mix and keep you all updated as we go.

Cheers,
Steve

 

Subbed!

 

I'm really interested in how much ethanol we can/should run. The ballpark rule of thumb tossed around is E30 to E40 before fuel trims are maxed out but it would be nice to see logs. It would also be nice to know if material breakdown is a concern or at what concentrations of ethanol does it become a concern.

There was another member here that was going to try a bunch of different mixes but ended up having to sell the MINI due to personal issues before he could start the project.

 

 

ch3no2.

 

Maxing out the stock trims on E30 is probably about right but that varies based on mods, location, temps, actual ethanol content (% of E85 vs. actual E%), tune, power, target AFRs, condition of hardware, etc. etc... Once we (me, Eurotechs, and Manic) dial in the new mods on pump gas and baseline we'll jump to E30, dial that in, bump it up to E60, and then probably just go to E85. I prefer to keep the trims (LTFT and STFT) as close to zero as possible as the cars typically run better, so we'll get that taken care of before proceeding to the next step. We'll have to see if Manic has access to a 2D scalar table or a 3D...hopefully 3D.

Thus far from what I've seen the BMW's typically max out the performance potential on E60 (approx. 100 octane) and everything beyond that is a matter of convenience. Although a lot of the big horsepower cars are running 100% E85. As a matter of fact we just had one make 861whp on 100% E85 (and a few other mods ) a few days ago. The Mini's fuel system is very similar to the BMW's although I haven't completely torn the Mini's apart yet. It's mostly comprised of nylon and stainless steel. As for durability, the BMW's stock lpfp tends to lose capacity a bit quicker on high concentrations of ethanol but we'll be upgrading that to an E85 certified solution on our mini.

Here's a link to the Cole-Parmer chemical compatibility chart. You'll notice both nylon and stainless steel are rated as excellent.

http://www.coleparmer.com/Chemical-Resistance

In addition I have a BMW (N54 motor) that has been on 100% E85 for about 2 years and 20K + miles. The other BMW (N55 motor) is currently running E60 and will also be 100% E85 pretty soon but that one is still going through the tuning process.

 

Got the OBDlink LX and wanted to do a little logging to test the waters and see where we are while the JCW is completely stock. It goes in for the FMIC, DP, and base tune this afternoon and by the looks of it, it really needs it!

Here's some data for you guys.

This is a screen shot of a log I took. You can click on this link and look at the various parameters individually or whatever.

http://datazap.me/u/fuel-it/mini-sto...&solo=1-4-9-11



A few things...one it looks like it's a good thing we are getting an FMIC installed tomorrow!

Pretty good throttle closure at 5900 rpms, looks like there was a decent drop in timing at 4600 rpms which is probably octane related, and looks like stock it's targeting about 11.6:1 or .79 lambda up top. Once we start adding in ethanol we'll lean that out a bit and see the affect on our EGT's, timing, and boost. Which by the way was a bit slow to build, hopefully the DP helps with that a bit. Thus far fueling obviously looks fine.

BTW, sample rate and this Android app seem fine thus far...pretty happy with that but need to play with the setup a bit more.

 

Got Eurotechs to install a couple goodies for us...

Hope to see temps remain a bit more manageable.

So far, there seems to be a pretty good improvement.

Here's two third gear pulls. One before the FMIC upgrade and one after.

Before...a 35 degree rise in IAT's (ambient = 81 degrees)


After...a 14 degree rise in IAT's (ambient = 63 degrees)


Up next...tuning and ethanol.

 

Is it a real Factory JCW or a tuning kit?

The factory JCW is 208hp. It should be quite different than your dyno at 193hp with already add-ons.

 

Yes, it's a real Factory JCW and it was completely stock.

A lot of things will contribute to the actual dyno readings....

- Type of Dyno = Maha
- Elevation = 1200'
- Type of Fuel = 91 octane (horrible)
- Temperature and humidity
- Airflow
- Etc, etc.....

That is why we dyno'd it prior to making any changes, so we have a baseline and can see what the actual gains are. Had we waited until all the mods were done and dyno'd at 250whp...you may have said the same thing..."you only gained 42whp when you should have gained 58whp", when in reality we did gain 58. Frankly I wouldn't have cared if it was 150whp...the real world performance gains are what we want to see, we don't care what the dyno says, we just want the delta. Otherwise we would have looked for a Dynojet.

 

Don't forget that the 208 hp (crankshaft) isn't the same things as whp.

 

Please, explain..............

 

Whp = wheel horse power...the power the car is actually putting down
Bhp = brake horse power..power at the flywheel (I believe it's the flywheel)

There's always some power loss before getting to the wheels.

 

To add to what Mr Bob said, there are power losses between the end of the crankshaft and the contact patch on the road. Much of the loss is friction in the transmission and differental. For example, for each gear pair there is at least a 2 to 3% loss (that is for straight cut gears which have the least loss). If there are 2 gear pairs (one in a the transmission and one in the differental) that would be 4 to 6 % loss; at 200hp that would be a loss of 12 hp. Actually the typically losses are 10 to 20%. So I would say that I this JCW that was tested is doing very well.

 

Do you know the max pressure the stock HPFP can safely achieve? I have never hit over 1900 psi and I run E40 with an AFR around 13.

 

Got a log?

The BMW's target up to 20MPa (2900 psi) but I regularly see them spike about 3K. Thus far it looks like our mini is hitting about 2100 psi and shows no signs of letting up yet despite our 11.5:1 AFR targets up top.

Speaking of which, while we are waiting for Nick at Manic to finish up our tuning we decided to do a little testing and threw a JB+ on the car with E25 in the tank.

Looks like we picked up about 4 tenths of a second. Thus far at this mix and with these mods on the car, the 2 O-clock position seemed to produce the best results.

As I said our HPFP looks fine, short term trims are okay, and it helped clean up the timing quite nicely. Probably don't want to push the mix too much further as I'm guessing the ceiling is the same as it is for the BMW...34? Once Nick gets us a tune, we'll continue cranking up the mix and the tune to see how she does. So far, so good.

Here's a log and and the VBOX result. Current temp was 59 degrees.





Here's the link to the log for those that are interested.

http://datazap.me/u/fuel-it/mini-jb-...zoom=2140-2161



*Also, full disclosure. Burger Motorsports approached me this week and offered me a position with them for technical support and to work with them on development and testing which I took. So I now represent them as well and wear two hats. Really looking forward to seeing where we can get to with this and our other platforms. At this time, they do not offer anything beyond the JB+ for the N18, so we are also really looking forward to a custom tune from Manic to help us reach our goals!

 

Sorry, been busy but here is an update:

The JCW is now on E30 and a custom MANIC flash as we work on increasing the ethanol content and the exploring it's limits. So far the turbo just keeps pulling and the fuel system looks fine. We'll throw in an E85 compatible LPFP soon and continue working with Manic to get the fueling right so we can continue in our pursuit of the fuel systems limitations.

Did 3 runs back to back...all with the same results @ 52 degrees.

 

A quick update on this...

We have installed a couple prototypes to help out with fueling and right now we are running E50.

We'll be getting back in touch with Nick @ Manic to make some adjustments to the tune and crank things up a bit as we add more ethanol.

Thus far things look pretty good but do NOT attempt this on an otherwise stock fuel system and standard tune.

The latest testing was done with a temp of 75 degrees (23 degrees warmer than the last tests) on the same stretch of blacktop.