R56 :: Hatch Talk (2007+) MINI Cooper and Cooper S (R56) hatchback discussion.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

R56 Difference between Scangauge and OBD II Bluetooth Connector?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Nov 3, 2013 | 01:09 PM
  #26  
danjreed's Avatar
danjreed
6th Gear
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,894
Likes: 8
From: Philly PA
Originally Posted by MINI_42
Thanks Dan, I was just reading it in the UG manual that Gambedegallina provided a link to! Shame no tire pressure readout, I would like to see that on my display.
that would be super cool... its a shame that can't somehow be coded into the radio controls under CONFIG or something..
 
Reply
Old Nov 3, 2013 | 05:35 PM
  #27  
PrplPplEtr's Avatar
PrplPplEtr
5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 647
Likes: 1
From: Indy
Wont display A/F out of the box. It can only display the data the car gives it. Unless you add a wideband sensor and the gauge has an adapter for user installed sensors, no soup for you.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using NAMotoring
 
Reply
Old Nov 3, 2013 | 05:52 PM
  #28  
Systemlord's Avatar
Systemlord
Thread Starter
|
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,428
Likes: 37
From: Mission Viejo, CA
Originally Posted by danjreed
Yes to A/F ratios on Scangauge.
Originally Posted by PrplPplEtr
Wont display A/F out of the box. It can only display the data the car gives it. Unless you add a wideband sensor and the gauge has an adapter for user installed sensors, no soup for you.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using NAMotoring
Now I'm confused? Yes and No to UG or SG? Never heard of having to have an adapter to get A/F out of the box, neither SG nor UG mention anything about needing an adapter to get A/F data...

Nobody said anything about user installed sensors.
 
Reply
Old Nov 3, 2013 | 06:14 PM
  #29  
danjreed's Avatar
danjreed
6th Gear
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,894
Likes: 8
From: Philly PA
Originally Posted by PrplPplEtr
Wont display A/F out of the box. It can only display the data the car gives it. Unless you add a wideband sensor and the gauge has an adapter for user installed sensors, no soup for you. Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using NAMotoring
I don't have a wide band on my car.

It displays A/F just fine.

No I'm not running a tuner...
 
Reply
Old Nov 9, 2013 | 03:04 PM
  #30  
runswithsizzers's Avatar
runswithsizzers
2nd Gear
15 Year Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 150
Likes: 1
From: On the edge
Originally Posted by Gambedegallina
Here's what it looks like. 10 months in the MCS; battery drain issues resolved long ago; no issues.

Color match to factory dash lighting obtained by coveting facing with colored acetate sheet. Don't know if now made with colored screen. Doubt it.
Gambedegallina - thanks for the photo!

I was inspired to find a sheet of clear "tangerine" PVC at my local art supply shop - but now I need to figure out how to make it stick.

What did you use for adhesive?
 
Reply
Old Nov 9, 2013 | 06:24 PM
  #31  
Gambedegallina's Avatar
Gambedegallina
2nd Gear
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 122
Likes: 7
Didn't use adhesive. Cut sheet about 2-3 mm larger than screen, and sheet slides into space at edges.
 
Reply
Old Nov 13, 2013 | 01:15 AM
  #32  
Fiat_LOL's Avatar
Fiat_LOL
1st Gear
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles, CA
Anyone have suggestions for OBDII dongles that work iPhone 5/iPad Mini? I have read a few reviews that state some of the cheaper ones drain battery so I am trying to avoid something like that. Looking to possibly mount my iPad Mini so any mount recommendations would be great as well!
 
Reply
Old Nov 13, 2013 | 09:29 AM
  #33  
MINI_42's Avatar
MINI_42
4th Gear
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 561
Likes: 24
From: Expat Aussie in Navarre, FL
Originally Posted by Fiat_LOL
Anyone have suggestions for OBDII dongles that work iPhone 5/iPad Mini? I have read a few reviews that state some of the cheaper ones drain battery so I am trying to avoid something like that. Looking to possibly mount my iPad Mini so any mount recommendations would be great as well!
You must have been reading my mind. I've been researching this as I'm looking for something worthwhile to use with Dash Command, which I downloaded the other day. There are lots of dongles out there, and from what I am finding out so far you need a wifi version for Apple devices (unless jailbroken, where you can likely use bluetooth).

Then there are some of these devices that use 'version 1.3 or 1.5' of the OBDII system, and one or the other will probably work for you.

But then model year of your car is important too, and whether it is US, Euro or Australian, etc. For example, US cars from '08 onwards use the CAN protocol, whatever that is, so your dongle needs to be compatible. Euro cars use EOBD protocol, Australia uses something else and so forth. I think I read this on wikipedia.

And of course there's the point you made about battery drain.

Looking on Amazon, they're all over the place and some look good with dodgey reviews or bad english product descriptions.

I'd like to hear from anyone with a 2013 MINI, using dash command and iOS, as to what they're using and whether they're happy...

Mike
 

Last edited by MINI_42; Nov 13, 2013 at 10:30 AM. Reason: left out a couple of words....oops
Reply
Old Nov 13, 2013 | 10:59 AM
  #34  
Fiat_LOL's Avatar
Fiat_LOL
1st Gear
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted by MINI_42
You must have been reading my mind. I've been researching this as I'm looking for something worthwhile to use with Dash Command, which I downloaded the other day. There are lots of dongles out there, and from what I am finding out so far you need a wifi version for Apple devices (unless jailbroken, where you can likely use bluetooth).

Then there are some of these devices that use 'version 1.3 or 1.5' of the OBDII system, and one or the other will probably work for you.

But then model year of your car is important too, and whether it is US, Euro or Australian, etc. For example, US cars from '08 onwards use the CAN protocol, whatever that is, so your dongle needs to be compatible. Euro cars use EOBD protocol, Australia uses something else and so forth. I think I read this on wikipedia.

And of course there's the point you made about battery drain.

Looking on Amazon, they're all over the place and some look good with dodgey reviews or bad english product descriptions.

I'd like to hear from anyone with a 2013 MINI, using dash command and iOS, as to what they're using and whether they're happy...

Mike
I have a 2013 MCS so I will let you know how my experience goes. Decided to pull the trigger on this unit because of the great reviews. I figured for $20 if it doesn't work I will just return it.
http://www.amazon.com/Elm327-Wirless-Diagnostic-Reader-Scanner/dp/B00AOIM2CC/ http://www.amazon.com/Elm327-Wirless-Diagnostic-Reader-Scanner/dp/B00AOIM2CC/

I also found this mount if you are interested. http://arkon.com/Slim-Grip%20Ultra/s...der-mount.html It looks pretty sturdy and would work well with both my iPad Mini and my iPhone 5 so I might buy this after a little more research. Seems to be the only mount that supports both.
 
Reply
Old Nov 13, 2013 | 11:45 AM
  #35  
cerenkov's Avatar
cerenkov
6th Gear
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,101
Likes: 29
From: Raleigh, NC
Originally Posted by MINI_42

I'd like to hear from anyone with a 2013 MINI, using dash command and iOS, as to what they're using and whether they're happy...

Mike
I'm using

iPhone 5
IOS7
DashCommand

and this wifi device

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...=14ee046rs3h9s

Works great no problem and has a nice ON/OFF button.

Check out this active thread:

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...2-scanner.html
 
Reply
Old Nov 13, 2013 | 08:31 PM
  #36  
MINI_42's Avatar
MINI_42
4th Gear
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 561
Likes: 24
From: Expat Aussie in Navarre, FL
Originally Posted by Fiat_LOL
I have a 2013 MCS so I will let you know how my experience goes. Decided to pull the trigger on this unit because of the great reviews. I figured for $20 if it doesn't work I will just return it. http://www.amazon.com/Elm327-Wirless...dp/B00AOIM2CC/

I also found this mount if you are interested. http://arkon.com/Slim-Grip%20Ultra/s...der-mount.html It looks pretty sturdy and would work well with both my iPad Mini and my iPhone 5 so I might buy this after a little more research. Seems to be the only mount that supports both.
Hi there and thank you for the reply! I had looked at that scanner, and one of the questions about it was whether it was CAN compliant...but 2 answers came back saying it was only OBDII compliant. Which is retarded, because as I understand it, CAN is one of several protocols of OBDII, so for it to be CAN compliant, it must first be OBDII (but that does not necessarily mean it is CAN compliant).

I like that mount and had been eyeing this one for a few months: http://www.mountguys.com/Car_Cup_Hol.../mfx33-ipm.htm I wonder if mounting the iPad or iphone will interfere with the gear shifter on my manual.

I for one am very interested in the results of your testing when the dongle arrives, and my main concerns are
1. whether it connects effortlessly and automatically every time you start the car?
2. how soon dash command updates the information from the car (like any noticeable delay)?
3. whether it drains the car battery when ignition is switched off, therefore necessitating unplugging of the dongle?

All this would be good info for starting a new thread I think.

Thanks again,
Mike
 
Reply
Old Nov 13, 2013 | 09:06 PM
  #37  
Fiat_LOL's Avatar
Fiat_LOL
1st Gear
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted by MINI_42
Hi there and thank you for the reply! I had looked at that scanner, and one of the questions about it was whether it was CAN compliant...but 2 answers came back saying it was only OBDII compliant. Which is retarded, because as I understand it, CAN is one of several protocols of OBDII, so for it to be CAN compliant, it must first be OBDII (but that does not necessarily mean it is CAN compliant).

I like that mount and had been eyeing this one for a few months: http://www.mountguys.com/Car_Cup_Hol.../mfx33-ipm.htm I wonder if mounting the iPad or iphone will interfere with the gear shifter on my manual.

I for one am very interested in the results of your testing when the dongle arrives, and my main concerns are
1. whether it connects effortlessly and automatically every time you start the car?
2. how soon dash command updates the information from the car (like any noticeable delay)?
3. whether it drains the car battery when ignition is switched off, therefore necessitating unplugging of the dongle?

All this would be good info for starting a new thread I think.

Thanks again,
Mike
Hmm you do make a good point! I might just start a thread about this. I will report back here once I have some results! Dongle and mount should be here by tomorrow!
 
Reply
Old Nov 13, 2013 | 10:14 PM
  #38  
MINI_42's Avatar
MINI_42
4th Gear
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 561
Likes: 24
From: Expat Aussie in Navarre, FL
Awesome! Looking forward to your test results!

Mike
 
Reply
Old Nov 14, 2013 | 03:58 PM
  #39  
Fiat_LOL's Avatar
Fiat_LOL
1st Gear
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted by MINI_42
Hi there and thank you for the reply! I had looked at that scanner, and one of the questions about it was whether it was CAN compliant...but 2 answers came back saying it was only OBDII compliant. Which is retarded, because as I understand it, CAN is one of several protocols of OBDII, so for it to be CAN compliant, it must first be OBDII (but that does not necessarily mean it is CAN compliant).

I like that mount and had been eyeing this one for a few months: http://www.mountguys.com/Car_Cup_Hol.../mfx33-ipm.htm I wonder if mounting the iPad or iphone will interfere with the gear shifter on my manual.

I for one am very interested in the results of your testing when the dongle arrives, and my main concerns are
1. whether it connects effortlessly and automatically every time you start the car?
2. how soon dash command updates the information from the car (like any noticeable delay)?
3. whether it drains the car battery when ignition is switched off, therefore necessitating unplugging of the dongle?

All this would be good info for starting a new thread I think.

Thanks again,
Mike
Hey Mike!

So I received my dongle and cup holder mount today and here are my initial impressions.

The Dongle:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AOIM2CC/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AOIM2CC/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
The dongle is alright for the price. Response time is roughly 1 second when in dash command maybe a little less when I had it hooked up to my iPad Mini running iOS 7. So if you are using it for RPMs I'd stay away (but the biggest reason I got it was to monitor warm up temps).
Initially the setup process is pretty much on your own but Amazon reviews should help with the exact settings for the wifi. Had it up and running in about 3 minutes.
With dash command I was seeing all the preset gauges. Nothing was missing but keep in mind I'm still new to dash command so there may be some gauges that are not supported.
The device it's self stays on after you leave and lock the car. I shut off my car and left for 5 minutes to see if it would fully shut down but it appeared to be still on. Maybe a dongle with an on/off switch might be better? I will have to do some further testing to see if it remains on at night and if I can see the light blinking on the dongle with the car locked.
Also the WIFI connection after the initial pairing is very quick! If you have your iPad/iPhone WIFI on you can just open up dash command and it should all connect up in a breeze.

The Cup Holder Mount:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BJUE8NA/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BJUE8NA/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Took me a bit to figure out how to assemble this (it's been a long day) but when I did have it all together I was surprised. The build quality is not bad and the arm that extends from the cup holder is very stiff so it doesn't wiggle around too much when you are driving. Had to muscle it into the way I wanted but after that I was pleased. My iPad Mini screen sits roughly 1 1/2 inches from the gear selector in park position when mounted vertical so I'm not sure if this will be an issue for you. Nevertheless it's a pretty good mount for the price and it sits snug even in sharp corners. I was getting nice G force readings in dash command!

Anyways I hope this helped and if anyone has questions let me know. I may be looking into a different dongle just so I don't have to unplug if it is draining the battery.

-Lukas
 
Reply
Old Nov 15, 2013 | 01:28 PM
  #40  
SUPRAMO's Avatar
SUPRAMO
3rd Gear
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 154
Likes: 7
From: Mexico.
Hi! Yesterday I get the scan obd with the dash command on my iphone, for me its amazing but in codes it gives me the thermostat, and in my coolant it mark 105 c... Is it cool?
 
Reply
Old Nov 15, 2013 | 01:59 PM
  #41  
richardsperry's Avatar
richardsperry
6th Gear
iTrader: (6)
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,247
Likes: 7
From: Eldersburg, Md
No, it hot!!! Lol

Yea, that 221f so yes, that's normal.
 
Reply
Old Nov 15, 2013 | 02:03 PM
  #42  
cerenkov's Avatar
cerenkov
6th Gear
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,101
Likes: 29
From: Raleigh, NC
Originally Posted by SUPRAMO
Hi! Yesterday I get the scan obd with the dash command on my iphone, for me its amazing but in codes it gives me the thermostat, and in my coolant it mark 105 c... Is it cool?
105 C is a little on the high side, really depends on outside temp, were you idling for a while, etc. typically I get about 82-93 C.

Thermostat housing is a common problem and should be looked at.
 
Reply
Old Nov 15, 2013 | 04:13 PM
  #43  
richardsperry's Avatar
richardsperry
6th Gear
iTrader: (6)
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,247
Likes: 7
From: Eldersburg, Md
No, it perfectly normal. It does not depend on outside temp at all. The thermostat and the water pump are controlled by the ECU. My car normally runs 220-222F unless I set the ac to max cool, or am really hooning around.
 
Reply
Old Nov 15, 2013 | 04:42 PM
  #44  
cerenkov's Avatar
cerenkov
6th Gear
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,101
Likes: 29
From: Raleigh, NC
Originally Posted by richardsperry
No, it perfectly normal. It does not depend on outside temp at all. The thermostat and the water pump are controlled by the ECU. My car normally runs 220-222F unless I set the ac to max cool, or am really hooning around.
I only have experience with my car. And it runs much cooler in sport mode and it's always in sport mode

I never seen my car above 210 F, but from your experience 220 F seems quite normal.

I disagree on outside temps though. They will have some impact on coolant temp, but we would need more information on the specifics of what was going on when he took the readings to know if they effected the readings. For example right now in the colder temps I rarely see above 180 F unless I'm really, really flogging it, and in the summer if it's over 100 F outside I'm more likely going to see my upper range especially if I'm stuck in stop and go traffic. The cooling mechanisms of the car can only do so much.

Also, I believe I misread the post - Supramo wrote about a thermostat code - I mistook that as a ODB2 trouble code - now I realize that he was just talking about engine coolant temp display code (PID). You know with the thermostat housing tendency to fail you want to pay attention to ECT.
 
Reply
Old Nov 15, 2013 | 05:57 PM
  #45  
nine5raptor's Avatar
nine5raptor
4th Gear
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 402
Likes: 0
From: KC, MO
I see 219-227 no matter the outside temp unless I'm really on it. Sport mode on the 2010s does not alter temp so I'm always at 225ish.
 
Reply
Old Nov 16, 2013 | 12:19 AM
  #46  
MINI_42's Avatar
MINI_42
4th Gear
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 561
Likes: 24
From: Expat Aussie in Navarre, FL
Originally Posted by SUPRAMO
Hi! Yesterday I get the scan obd with the dash command on my iphone, for me its amazing but in codes it gives me the thermostat, and in my coolant it mark 105 c... Is it cool?
Hi there, can you tell me which OBD scanner you got? Also, what model of Mini?

Mike
 
Reply
Old Nov 17, 2013 | 12:16 PM
  #47  
MINI_42's Avatar
MINI_42
4th Gear
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 561
Likes: 24
From: Expat Aussie in Navarre, FL
Originally Posted by Fiat_LOL
Hey Mike!

So I received my dongle and cup holder mount today and here are my initial impressions.

The Dongle:http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
The dongle is alright for the price. Response time is roughly 1 second when in dash command maybe a little less when I had it hooked up to my iPad Mini running iOS 7. So if you are using it for RPMs I'd stay away (but the biggest reason I got it was to monitor warm up temps).
Initially the setup process is pretty much on your own but Amazon reviews should help with the exact settings for the wifi. Had it up and running in about 3 minutes.
With dash command I was seeing all the preset gauges. Nothing was missing but keep in mind I'm still new to dash command so there may be some gauges that are not supported.
The device it's self stays on after you leave and lock the car. I shut off my car and left for 5 minutes to see if it would fully shut down but it appeared to be still on. Maybe a dongle with an on/off switch might be better? I will have to do some further testing to see if it remains on at night and if I can see the light blinking on the dongle with the car locked.
Also the WIFI connection after the initial pairing is very quick! If you have your iPad/iPhone WIFI on you can just open up dash command and it should all connect up in a breeze.

The Cup Holder Mount:http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Took me a bit to figure out how to assemble this (it's been a long day) but when I did have it all together I was surprised. The build quality is not bad and the arm that extends from the cup holder is very stiff so it doesn't wiggle around too much when you are driving. Had to muscle it into the way I wanted but after that I was pleased. My iPad Mini screen sits roughly 1 1/2 inches from the gear selector in park position when mounted vertical so I'm not sure if this will be an issue for you. Nevertheless it's a pretty good mount for the price and it sits snug even in sharp corners. I was getting nice G force readings in dash command!

Anyways I hope this helped and if anyone has questions let me know. I may be looking into a different dongle just so I don't have to unplug if it is draining the battery.

-Lukas
Hi Lukas,

That is a lot of great information, thank you. Do you have a photo of the iPad holder installed? I get what you are saying about the delay, shame about that as it would be nice to use it for revs, but on the other hand that's something you want pretty close to your line of sight when driving, so I'll continue to use the rev counter in front of me. Temps are really what I want to know, and I guess the other things like boost and a/f ratio are for me at least, just a novelty. I saw a dongle that has an on/off switch...but even that is a PITA to remember to press. I may end up going with the ultragage after all, even though it's plain ugly. Although not as ugly as the other one...

So after using it for a few days, what are your thoughts? I really like how DC is fairly customizable with the gages. Have you downloaded any of the other skins?

All the best,
Mike
 
Reply
Old Nov 18, 2013 | 01:53 PM
  #48  
Fiat_LOL's Avatar
Fiat_LOL
1st Gear
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted by MINI_42
Hi Lukas,

That is a lot of great information, thank you. Do you have a photo of the iPad holder installed? I get what you are saying about the delay, shame about that as it would be nice to use it for revs, but on the other hand that's something you want pretty close to your line of sight when driving, so I'll continue to use the rev counter in front of me. Temps are really what I want to know, and I guess the other things like boost and a/f ratio are for me at least, just a novelty. I saw a dongle that has an on/off switch...but even that is a PITA to remember to press. I may end up going with the ultragage after all, even though it's plain ugly. Although not as ugly as the other one...

So after using it for a few days, what are your thoughts? I really like how DC is fairly customizable with the gages. Have you downloaded any of the other skins?

All the best,
Mike
Hey Mike!

So after a few days the dongle is starting to grow on me. I even was able to connect my iPhone to my car when I just want a smaller screen or want to leave my iPad Mini. The delay, I have read, is a pretty normal thing for the wifi dongles but to be honest I don't really notice it at all anymore. The only place you really notice it is the RPMs but that isn't what I got it for. Everything else updates pretty much instantly and a nice thing with dash command is that it will leave a red tick where you reached the max for example on the horsepower gauge or boost. I think the best thing to do is the 0-60 times which are fun on a deserted road!

Also on another thread someone had the same dongle as me and said he left it plugged in for a week at times and didn't have a problem starting up his car so I think the battery drain shouldn't be an issue. It uses like 0.0625 amps according to someone on another thread I was reading.

I also included a few pictures of the mount when my iPad is hooked up. Enjoy!

-Lukas
Name:  PhotoNov1813029PM.jpg
Views: 1304
Size:  65.5 KB
Name:  PhotoNov1813022PM.jpg
Views: 1252
Size:  68.1 KB
Name:  PhotoNov1813033PM.jpg
Views: 1279
Size:  58.8 KB
Name:  PhotoNov1813132PM.jpg
Views: 1253
Size:  56.1 KB
 
Reply
Old Nov 18, 2013 | 11:03 PM
  #49  
MINI_42's Avatar
MINI_42
4th Gear
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 561
Likes: 24
From: Expat Aussie in Navarre, FL
Hey Lukas,

Excellent information, again! I'll be ordering that dongle now, and I'll also get the stand you have, although I can see my hand colliding with my iPad when shifting in and out of 5th gear...but I hope that isn't the case.

Thanks again for your time and attention to detail with your information. If you ever make it to Houston, PM me.

Mike
 
Reply
Old Nov 19, 2013 | 12:48 AM
  #50  
nrfitchett4's Avatar
nrfitchett4
3rd Gear
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 287
Likes: 0
From: San Antonio
I've been using a BT dongle with the Android torque app, but am considering a wifi dongle because BT is always tied up with my headset. Thanks for the reviews.
 
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
randeez
Stock Problems/Issues
6
Sep 15, 2015 09:16 AM
bcman
R56 :: Hatch Talk (2007+)
2
Aug 28, 2015 04:47 PM
one73ronin
Stock Problems/Issues
8
Aug 19, 2015 12:36 PM
Super Coop
Navigation & Audio
0
Aug 17, 2015 05:09 PM
Minii cooper bean
Interior/Exterior
8
Aug 11, 2015 02:10 PM




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:45 PM.