Hi, this is my first post so please excuse me if I put it in the wrong category.

My wife bought her car from her father (original owner) a year and a half ago. 2009 Mini cooper s, approximately 89,000 miles currently.

A couple weeks ago it began having troubles when starting. Spitting, sputtering, rough idling, trying to die until after 30 seconds it finally grouped its self together. Its just upon cold starts it has problems.

So I figure ok we'll change the spark plugs and coil packs. Come to find out they've never been changed. This solved the issue for about 1 day. Then the problem began to get a little worse.

I began doing some research and was certain the problem was from what ive found, the high pressure fuel pump (HPFP). Which to my excitement was under warranty.

So i called the dealer explaining the problem and we dropped it off the same day. The service rep does his walk around inspection. Tells me my oil is low, i say yea we check it every week or so. He insists I have an oil leak. I insist we dont. I still agree to allow them to put 2 qts in while the car is in the shop. I tell him ive already had the cel codes ran by autozone which is showing P0300 (random misfire) and P0303 (misfire in cylinder 3).

Before we leave he tells me ill need to pay circa $150 for the diagnostic report. I say, that's fine but if its indeed the faulty hpfp I dont feel we should be held responsible for the fees. He agrees and but still insists there are numerous things he will find.

The service rep calls me a couple days later and says yea the problem is due to carbon build up. The cost to walnut blast it is $1,325 and then they have to reset the timing afterwards so total for both will be close to $1,600.

So im obviously not going to spend $1,600. When I go to pick up the car I ask the service rep if they found anything wrong with the hpfp. He says, they won't know if its bad until the carbon build up is serviced. So i then said, you didnt test it? He said, oh yea yea we did.... Hmmmm. After they brought the car back it wasn't washed or vacuumed like the big sign on the door said it would. And they didn't add any oil.

We took the car home and and did a seafoam treatment. Loads of smoke came out. It had no cold start issues for about one day. Now the issue has returned.

Im considering doing the carbon build up cleaning myself by hand. Ive found a write up someone did. I have all the tools, space, time etc.

But im still convinced its the hpfp.

Any advice?

Sorry for the long story.

 

I say get rid of the carbon buildup first. Then, if there are still issues tell the rep that you got the carbon cleaning done elsewhere and ask him to check about the HPFP and be very insistent.

 

Yea that's about the best solution I can come up with.

 

Yea that's the best solution I can come up with

 

The dealer did the same thing to me. I let them do the blasting and the problem was still there. Then they said I needed new fuel injectors. Done! Spark plugs too to be safe. Done! Again I took it in for the same problem and it was the HPFP which was replaced under warranty.

They have to get other work in to cover the cost of the HPFP which I think may have been a TSB issue. I have had no trouble since.

 

Deja Vu to the max

My car experienced the same faults. Took it to the dealer before I had complete failure. Basically told me without a CEL, it wouldn't get done. Kindly quoted me $900 for carbon cleaning among many other overpriced jobs. I paid my hour diagnostic and left. I tried explaining that mechanical parts can fail without CEL (i.e. death rattle on timing), he didn't agree. If I had a CEL, I would have had to tow it in.....

I took my car to my indie. The car was knocking like crazy. Replaced the pump and pipes. All is good. Cost me about $550. I'm talking with Mini right now to see if they will help. I dont think we as consumers should be at the mercy of lame dealers.

Good luck, friend

 

You're in Richmond?
I'm in Houston.

Was it Momentum Mini on the beltway and 59?

 

I just recently had some of the very exact issues on morning starts. I changed the HPFP. It totally cured it in my case. And I needed the carbon cleaning too. Did the pump first and it was cured. The pump is very easy the change. Just torx bits and a couple metric wrenches required. Possible s screwdriver. If you have a mechanical ability you can do it very easy. The pump is around 450-485. But I get a discount thru the dealer cause I go thru my friends shop for parts. If you would like to PM me I'd be willing to walk you thru it over the phone in detail before you got into it to help you understand. It's really easy. You can do it. Just trust your self and go for it

 

Hey thanks

 

I took the car to another mechnic for a second opinion. They were also pretty certain its most likely carbon build up.
So not wanting to spend 2k dollars I just finished cleaning the carbon build up following a write up on this site.
After the cleaning the car started up after a few minutes of rough turning over.
Seems fine however it feels like im not getting any boost.
Suggestions?
Is there a hose i could have knocked loose under or near the intake manifold related to the turbo?
Thanks!

 

well you have the hose from the intake to the turbo....the hose from the turbo to the intercooler....and the hose from the intercooler to the motor...

..i would just start at the intake and follow the hoses and check all the hose clamps and make sure everything is tight and secure.

 

Sorry, The dealer does not lose any money on HPFP or any other warranty item. MINI pays them for it. Maybe at a reduced rate compared to what they charge the consumer but they don't lose money on it.

 

Maybe, but the dealer knows how common the HPFP is on the 2nd gen S. So why wouldn't they start there? Blasting & the injectors made no difference. Service makes more money for the Dealer by selling service & parts. So I should have said the dealer saw an opportunity to sell additional service that probably wasn't necessary based on the end results of each service!

 

I got the same problem at my dealer last year. Mine is 2007 MCS with ~45K. I told them the symptom is intermittent (misfire codes are random in all cylinders) - I asked them to check HPFP 1st thing in the morning. If it is really carbon buildup issue, it should be on a certain cylinder. They did the walnut-blast thing, re-program cpu to inject more fuel to keep the top of the valves clean (1mpg loss, according to the tech). $900 later, I went to pick up the car with the same problem right at the dealer (I'm lucky). They finally agreed with me, refunded me $900, and swapped my HPFP under warranty. The problem never comes back again! I got carbon cleaning done for free =). I do feel the car has more power than before.

 

I bet with a nice clean stream of fuel!

 

Sorry for the delayed response. Yes, it was momentum Mini! There work seems to be good they just sell you more than you need and up-charge more than other dealers noted on this forum.

 

I'd like to know more about them reprograming the cpu to inject more fuel to keep the top of the valves clean. i was under the impression that being direct injected engines the fuel did not touch the top of the valves hence the carbon issue to begin with. i'd like to know if this actually helps.

 

The fuel never touches the valves, so they won't stay clean. That extra fuel might get you some more power though

 

Here is an email (word by word) from the tech with the top of valve cleaning theory. Not sure now, who I should trust.

"I'm glad you noticed the extra power. Your engine was severely choked off. Also, with the new DME programming, an extra injection pulsewidth was added by the factory to spray some fuel during the valve overlap to coat the valves with some fuel to keep that carbon build-up from happening again. The only side effect to it might be a loss of 1 MPG."

 

this is a diagram of a direct injected engine:



you can see the injection is in the cylinder and completely bypasses the valves.

im guessing the tech is hoping that by spraying whilst the valves are open, some will splash out and hit the tops of the valves.....

however the valves are only open when the cylinder is sucking in air, or blowing it out......and the injector sprays on the compression stroke, when the valves should be closed...

so if he re-codded to spray on the intake stroke....no fuel will hit the valves because there is a pressure difference between the valves and the cylinder, and all the fuel is going to be sucked into the cylinder......and if he codded to spray on the exhaust stroke, it may hit the top of the exhaust valve, but i dont think the exhaust valves are the ones prone to carbon fowling.

so honestly im not sure what the tech did......

 

The key word in that sentence was "overlap". There is (in most cars) a time when both the intake valves and exhaust valves for a cylinder are open. This is referred to as "overlap". It happens in between the exhaust stroke and the intake stroke.

At higher RPMs, there is enough inertia in the exhaust moving out and the intake air moving in so that (for the most part) the exhaust goes out and the air comes in. At lower RPMs, some exhaust does go into the intake port and get re-ingested. So it is possible for some fuel to get into the port from the combustion chamber if you spray at the right time.

I don't know how much good it would do, though, as it would depend on a lot of factors how much was able to get into the port. I guess the theory is that some is better than none.

 

So i did the carbon build up cleaning myself off a write up here on the site. Definitely needed to be cleaned. But I still had rough starts. So i took it to a certified mini mechanic and they also did the carbon cleaning.

They confirmed its the HPFP. I wish the ****ing dealer would have just replaced the recalled part and save me alot of time and money.

 

Good job on your diagnosis. Clint at Defenders of Speed has a kit for Sea Foaming the MINI's. It is designed to make it a bit easier introducing SF into the system. Nice kits, makes fogging real easy since you will want to do this like every 10K miles.

Replacement of the HPFP is an extended warranty item, not really a recall. It's replacement is dependent upon the mfg date of the MINI. Could be your MINI does not fall within that category ? Maybe that is why it wasn't replaced.

Either way, you should not be paying any diag time for a fix YOU correctly diagnosed from the beginning, and a part YOU already requested to be changed. Since they choose another route and your diag was the purported fix, they should reimburse you that $150.00. And don't forget about the two qts of 5w30 if that was on the bill too. Your system holds less old than the 1st generation MINI's, and as you already know, is even more crucial for the timing chain area of your engine to maintain proper level.

Just so no more of your time is wasted. Think about circumventing the SA you had before and save this initial conversation with his/her Service Manager.....and have them document the fact they sent you out the door -2 qts low after THEY diagnosed that as well.

Sad but truth is, there are varying degrees of quality service at MINI shops since the stores are franchise owned. One way to avoid SA's like that one, is to find a MINI dealer which uses customer service surveys as a means of paying their sales and service staff their bonuses. Your service experiences should then improve.

 

My HPFP failed, and it was doing the exact same thing the OP's car is/was doing. Eventually it wouldn't start. I don't think a dealer can test for it. The dealer was yanking his chain IMO. I'd steer clear of that joint. And I'd mention that you got your chain yanked at the next place too.