If you're asking if the OCC/Block has an affect on passing smog I won't know until May when I will need to have it tested....if you're asking if the smog test station will have a problem with the OCC/Block installed the answer is no...already checked BSH has CARB certification.

 

The CARB certification is what I was looking for. Did you confirm that with BSH or CARB? I can't find it on CARB website. Thanks.

 

Whether or not they're useful at all is debateble. Here's a similar thread with an alternative solution:

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...-question.html

 

I called BSH before I ordered it last year to make sure it was CARB certified....they said yes and gave me the number (which I don't have). Just them saying so was OK with me. Even if it wasn't, it's a 15 minute uninstall.

 

BSH tells me (email) they do not have CARB certification (and that uninstall is very easy as others say).

 

WOW , looking at that one picture with all the oil/water separation is nasty. I never see that coming from my oil pan when I drain the oil. If that was in your engine the oil level would go up due to the oil floating on top of water. We all know our oil levels go down.....also oil pressure would drop and knocking if the water got to the oil pick up. ?? hmmmm
Do you think you are getting this oil/water due to the fact you have condensation going on with the temperature change of the oil coming out the engine to a cooler tank ( catch can )? Do any of you guys in the western high temp regions see any of this ??
I'm wondering if the catch can location or ambient temp is the issue....

 

Somehow I got an email w/ link to this thread & figured I would update.

In my case I added a second BSH OCC piggybacked w/ the first one as I became uncomfortable w/ blocking the manifold side PCV loop. I still check both cans every other week or so but find very little if anything in them during the warm months in Connecticut. During the cold months it is nauseating to see how much oily condensation I drain out of the cans WEEKLY. Certainly not a lot of oil but it is there. One thing is certain - that effluent can do absolutely nothing beneficial for any system on the engine & for what IMO is a small outlay for an OCC I think they're worth it as long as an owner will keep it emptied in climates that produce higher amounts of condensation.

I considered going a different route w/ the Mann Provent unit(s) linked below but the BSH package is well put together, fits well (even paired), looks good & definitely does something I consider positive. The Mann units would take separating this gunk out to a new level but it would be a more involved install even if you just valved the drain line instead of routing back to the oil sump. I'm OK doing a carbon blast every so often because I can do it myself & it wasn't that hard but not something the mechanically challenged or even average would be advised to take on. That does not mean I am looking forward to doing the next one & my position is that the OCC certainly isn't hurting anything so if it prolongs the interval between blasts, I'm using one (2 actually). I do agree that OCC effectiveness is debatable, maybe even questionable but they will not negatively effect anything if you don't alter the loops, probably not even if you choose the more common manifold block off. I do not poo-poo either pro or anti OCC positions, it is up to the vehicle owner whether they perceive any potential benefit from using them & whether they see any value in spending the money.

Links below regarding the Mann Provent units. IMO these are something that would really help but add a little more maintenance to ownership & would take some creativity to install, especially if you ran 1 on each PCV loop.

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...separator.html

http://www.cfpfilters.com/downloads/...nn/provent.pdf

http://www.diesel-filters.com/search...ann+3931070550

http://www.idparts.com/catalog/produ...oducts_id=2334

http://www.diesel-filters.com/393107...l-off-highway/


ridinDirty - This vapor is present in the crankcase (open inner cavities of engine) of all cars. It is basically a soup of air, condensate, combustion gas, compounds formed by chemical reactions & oil vapor. One of the main jobs of the PCV system is to relieve the crankcase of this nasty vapor by drawing it through the intake system & mixing it w/ incoming air that will be mixed w/ fuel & used for combustion. The problem w/ the N14 engine lies in the direct injection format & the induction system. The intake valves do not have fuel & the solvent/detergent/cleaning properties it contains flowing over those valves.

The PCV vapors are routed to the intake system which passes air over & past the valves along w/ that vapor concoction. This effluent has a tendency to adhere to the valve & gradually buildup choking the air flow & sometimes getting bad enough to keep the valve from seating properly which in more extreme cases can lead to an area being burned away from the valve's edge which creates a critical leak. With no fuel constantly washing over the valve there is nothing to help clean these deposits.

IMO the only way to clean these deposits are to get in there & scrub the carbon off which has to be excruciating or "carbon blast" them which itself is not an easy, pleasant or if you have to pay somebody cheap endeavor. Any solvent treatments will have minimal if any effect on them IMO as there is just not enough you could use to break down that buildup. There are numerous products (Seafoam & BG 44k & others) that will help clean injectors & combustion chamber deposits but I don't see them as a tool to battle valve deposits in the N14 engine. This is my opinion and they do vary!

 

I don't understand. I've seen dual OCC setup where one is on driver's and passenger side, but I think you are saying you have two in line on the driver's side?

I have one on the driver's side, I do NOT want to block the passenger side PCV, and I would love to put a second OCC for that side, but I don't have a good spot to put it.

Can you post a picture of your setup? Thanks!

 

One can for each loop. One can for the passenger side valve cover to intake manifold & one can for the driver side valve cover to turbo intake.

They are physically mounted on the same screw w/ the supplied "L" bracket for each (my version of piggy backed). Sits pretty much the same as the Saiko twin can illustrated in the first link of my post above. Cozy but they fit w/ stock air cleaner housing.

Just for hahas I tried to configure the "noise maker" firewall duct to blow ambient air from the cowl onto the cans hoping to assist condensation but I couldn't come up w/ a good solution, it just isn't shaped right. I can't picture ever reinstalling the noise maker or throwing it away so I tried to use part of it but no success.

 

I understand what you are saying about the vapors and to even add to it oil flash point is 220-240 , so if it ignites in your cylinder first you have used up the energy in that cylinder and lowers your octane and hurting performance....
My concern is more on the fact you are adding lines and a pot to make condensation.... I hate the whole idea of pulling back to the intake to re-burn. I would like a system that uses the exhaust to pull it out the crankcase like the dragsters use. The only bad thing there is at idle you don't have much exhaust flow. I have been looking into electric vacuum pumps. They use them on big hot rod motors with big cams that do not have good vacuum at idle. They have a vacuum switch that turn off after 14" because once the hot rod gets moving then the engine can create enough vacuum. I'm thinking of running a tube from the exhaust , at idle you use the electric pump then once you get going the exhaust with a tube welded in at a 45 deg will take over ... I just need some R&D time...lolol
If you google vacuum pumps on hot rods most run one off a belt with a pump mounted on the motor , some get 15-40 hp by running them
I guess to me running all those tubes around to and from the can is what is making your catch can look nasty in the colder months ,........

 

Can you post a picture please? Thanks so much!

 

That's because once the engine is up to running temperature, any water and / or vapor evaporates and is removed through the PCV.

Yes, it's a proven fact than when the dew point is low enough with high humidity, you can condense water in the catch can.

I'm in Denver where humidity isn't high during the summer months, but can be higher during the wet season / winter months.
As noted in the image, the 2-shot-glass collection was from the winter months of driving.
I simply don't see that kind of froth in the summer months because there's little to no humidity.

- Erik

 

Due to the way the MINI has the PCV system setup I would use two Catch Cans (there is a Dual Catch Can prototype that was being worked on a while back but I never followed up on it to see if it was available now).

But a Catch Can Function is only as good has the Quality of Catch Can, and ease of draining.

Features to look for:
-Does not restrict PCV pressure
-Has a internal element that captures atomized oil and collects the oil without allowing it to pass through to the intake
-Easy to drain/service
-Size (they have to fit under the hood)


In many Race Applications there is a belt driven vacuum pump hooked into the system to provide a vacuum to the PCV system.

Motor on!

 

The hot rod vac pumps are designed for drawing vacuum in the crank case for ring seal more than anything. There is probably some PCV and/or windage component to them as well.

Your idea for pulling vac w/ a pump is not crazy but probably not that much draw is necessary. If you could come up w/ a xover point to draw through exhaust would be pretty cool. Realistically you can just vent to atmosphere which is apt to smell & make an oily buildup wherever it exits. Others have done it w/ their Minis & many race cars do it w/ simple filtered breathers, usually 2 per valve cover on the ubiquitous small block Chevy.

Ian - I'll try to put a pic up in the next day or two. First I have to catch the car stationary when I'm actually home, take a pic (not w/ my ancient pre camera flip phone!) & then have someone I work with get it posted here. Some things are just hard for me!

JAB - I think the dual can you mention is the Saikou Michi unit which looks like a nice setup. Check the fitting sizes & note that it only drains from a petcock on bottom, might not be real easy to access where it locates in the engine bay. I like the dipstick on the BSH can as it allows me to simply suck out the effluent w/ a vacuum style brake bleeder. One of those large fluid syringes works as well w/ a short piece of hose on it. Saikou purpose builds each unit & a fitting could probably be requested on top of each can for that purpose as long as his baffle setup would allow a hose to reach the bottom of the can.

 

Cool! Looking forward to the pic!

 

Well I run the evac crankcase vent on my sandrail and jeep. I have had good luck with it on both.It uses the exhaust to create the vacuum... But.... I opened my oil fill cap while my mini was running when I was looking at it on the car lot. I thought I could hear cam chain noise and by opening the cap I could hear it better. Well the amount of vacuum it had seamed crazy high plus the engine stalled. Soooo to me its pretty high vacuum. So I don't think you can run the mini vent to atmosphere to vent. I have not looked but there is an electrical connection and a switch/sensor where the hose ties in with the intake. I need to get the Bentley book out and look into it.
My new exhaust will be here next week and I plan to weld a 1/2" or 5/8" pipe at an angle after the flex connection. I know the closer to the turbo would be best but this will be a test point. Then I will tap into the vacuum line coming off the valve cover. I will put gauges on both of these inside the car temporally and monitor...
I would love to ditch the intake from sucking nasty re-burn stuff in.... might help with build up on valves
Here is a drawing of my thoughts. I need to check into the vacuum pump and make sure it is a vane type pump so the exhaust can pull threw it

 

Here are bccan's pics!

I'm totally going to copy this after I do a walnut blast. =)

 

Moroso 85608

just saw this and now i'm kinda regretting getting the BSH can a couple weeks ago. the BSH is a nice piece, but this seems to address the root of the problem better by offering a mesh media in there as well. When i looked inside the BSH with a flash light i couldn't really see any mesh in there. i'll probably add this moroso one to the intake manifold side down the road, since it looks like it'd mount the BSH can right next to it very easily (i like the idea of a real bracket too, not just a plastic tab off the cowl).

czar had some great posts in another thread about where most of the condensation we see is coming from. a lot of it has to do with thermal expansion and hot oil entering a (relatively) cold catch can. the oil itself isn't so much carrying the condensation as it is drawing it out of the air within the can itself.

 

That looks like a really nice set up. I'd say one of the best I've seen. I don't see any pictures of the mesh media though. If you end up getting this, be sure to take some pics so we can see it! I might think about switching my BSH out for it!

EDIT: I now see you already bought the BSH. Hopefully someone else get the Moroso so we can see it!

 

check the link, they have the best instructions i've ever seen. really, really detailed pictures in a nice PDF.

 

Yeah very nice instructions. But no shots of the mesh :/

 

Those have to be the best directions I've seen any product come with! I was unaware of this kit. Are there any pics of the separator inside? The (my) BSH cans Have a baffle in them but I seem to remember reading there was a run of them that mistakenly did not get baffles though not sure. Nice bracket & decent hose setup, Moroso makes good stuff.

IMO the only setup I know of that will truly be effective is the Mann Provent due to an actual filter media, it just isn't ideally configured for easy install on our application.

IMO (again) there should be one can on each loop for max effectiveness & to keep the system functioning the way it was designed, only cleaner.

 

Yea, it'd be nice to see evidence of the "mesh" they are describing. My BSH does have the baffle in it, that part is easily visible; not sure if there is any mesh on the IN side of it, there could be. From what it looks like in the photos, the Moroso can is very similar to a "demister" used in air compressors to do this exact same thing, and are oriented/disassembled the same way.

i'll keep the BSH, it is a nice piece and they did a great job on the adapter fittings to the turbo side PCV ports. I'll just add the Moroso down the road and mount the BSH to that much nicer bracket.

 

I like don't like how the cut the factory hose and then reduce the hose size. This is going to create a pressure drop.

 

No I'm no flow dynamicist, but wouldn't reducing the size actually creat more pressure? The overall volume of the tube the gases need to travel through have been reduced but the volume of gases themselves haven't been reduced. So that in turn should create a pressure increase. Again, I could be way off base and I'm not being a smartas$, just trying to verify my thoughts.