My girlfriend's MINI experienced this issue recently. Her 2007 MCS has only 36,000 miles and she's the first owner. Maintenance has been done regularly by Princeton MINI.

MINI is trying to keep this under wraps to one extent or another but you guys really need to know. Note: MINI did take care of this issue for her without any cost but they didn't have to ...

They have been having an increasing number of timing chain failures, even for cars with relatively low miles. Apparently, what is happening is that the fluids are not being changed as often as they really should be. The recommended "once a year or 15,000 miles (or whenever the car tells you)" is simply NOT working out in the real world for a lot of people.

I'm not sure how wide-spread these new policies are but several of our local dealerships are now encouraging people to change their oil every 7500 miles. MINI will still only cover the one's that are within the current maintainence program. So most of us will need to pay for one extra change per year out of your pocket. But they are also charging less for this than usual, because of the timing chain issues.

Note: I don't personally expect to get hit by this, as I changed my oil after the first 800 miles or so, and then every 7500/8000 miles since then. A friend of mine was a mechanic and beat it into me a long time ago that oil changes should be done OFTEN for the best health of a car.

So if you have an R56 and haven't changed your oil in the last 7500 miles or so PLEASE seriously consider getting this done ASAP.

Good luck!

Jeff

 

jkling17: I agree with you completely but I think there are reasons other than the timing chain issues. I understand that premature turbo charger failure has also been attributed to insufficient oil change intervals (OCI). I have been following an 5K mile OCI with occasional used oil change analysis which has supported this 5-7K frequency. Anyone interested in more info than you could ever want to learn about oil can find it at: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

 

Dude really.....really..... This is so old news I can't even begin to tell you when it was first brought up.

 

Why would old fluids cause timing chain failures? Like kukaepe says, I can see turbo failures, oil pumps, things like that but timing chain... Hmmmmm. Good idea to change the oil around 5-7k though...

 

The one thing that all high mileage cars have in common, whether they are MINI's or any other brand is frequent oil changes. What I don't undersyand about MINI (BMW) is why are they suggesting such long oil change intervals if they are having to major engine repairs under warranty later? Wouldn't it be cheaper for them in the long run to pay for more frequent oil changes?

 

Good question. Perhaps they honestly thought that the data at the time supported those recommendations. Even German engineers are not infallable :-)

Perhaps some bean counter figured that the failures would happen after the warranty expired and therefore be a cash cow? I personally would hope this isn't the case since it's a foolish perspective. It's a well-established fact that timing chains should last basically the life of the car or at LEAST 150-200k Miles. What MINI/BMW doesn't need is for this to become a bigger problem that will seriously impact their reputation for reliability and therefore resale value and market demand. That would be foolish indeed.

I think that maintenance should cover those extra oil changes but it doesn't really bother me too much to spend an extra $75-80 once a year for my mcs. I'd rather take care of it, since I intend to probably keep it for the long haul.

 

I think you mean French engineers. Afterall, the engine is made in France.

What is really happening with the TC issue, is the lack of oil in the crank case. The Turbo engine burns through it fairly quick probably due to design tollerances of the piston rings. In this case Gap really does kill.

The lack of oil spinning up effectively cooling the TC makes it stretch some causing the noise heard. Yup many folks never check their oil levels between oil changes.....( what are they teaching you kids in drivers ed these days )

And just because MINI is "willing to PAY" for an oil change every 15K miles honestly.........have you ever driven any automobile that long before an oil change ? It's not a "life time fluid" and what oil filter effectively works that long anyways ?

Changing any auto engine oil/filter at 7,500 is very good advice....


One other note - I've puchased 4 brand new cars since 1981. Not one other manufacturer ever offered "free oil changes" until I purchased a Jaguar in 2004. Never expected it either.

 

It would be a lit easier if the freaking dip stick were in ANY way readable...

It's the worse design I've seen in 40 years of car ownership.... Oh wait, it's French, that explains it.

 

Jeff,

I'm sorry to hear about your girlfriend's problems however I've got to say, anyone who only follows the manufacturer's maintenance schedule is either a ******* or cheap.

I know mini offers "free maintenance" (a joke IMO) but who the hell actually thinks you can go 18K+ miles before a first oil change? I mean, really?

Like you, I changed my oil at 1200 miles, 5K and every 5K after that. Assuming the average person drives 15K miles per year, that would be 3 oil changes and the dealership should do the last one.

I think for the cost of 2 oil changes (assuming you let the dealer do the third one) it's worth the cost.

Mark

 

As far as French car designs go, my 1981 Renault 18i had an oil level indicator in the instrument panel that showed the oil level fairly accurately (and an easy to read dipstick). Got to credit BMW for the oil dipstick and lack of gauges on their vehicles.

 

Better known as a glass bubble sight glass...lol. (like in a motorcycle)



Mark

 

I really like how so many of the short OCI folks can't seem to make their case for their preferred OCI without slinging out insults and ad hominem attacks on others who have a different opinion. Must be a pretty weak position to try to defend such a wasteful practice of dubious benefit if you have to resort to that.

 

Really? A different opinion? So you think changing the oil at 18K+ miles (according to when the light comes on from the factory) is okay? If you or anyone thinks that changing the oil at 18K+ miles is okay, then I stand by my position, you're either a dumb azz or cheap!



Wasteful? Dubious? Seriously?? I'm not the one with a timing chain failure which the OP directly contributed the demise of his timing chain to the lack of changing oil at a proper frequency.

So apparently, it's not "wasteful" and the "dubious" benefit is the fact that my engine is still running.



Jeff, so your "method" works better? You think typing a bunch of rambling garbage in an attempt to sound sophisticated sounds better? That's pathetic.

I think that anyone that relies on the manufacturer's recommendation of changing oil at 18K miles is absolutely asking for trouble.

Mark

 

Count me in the frequent OCI camp. I was amazed at the vitriol I received when I innocently mentioned more frequent changes to a new owner who had posted a few months ago requesting advice on keeping his MCS for a long time. How dare I claim that the BMW/MINI engineers/designers didn't know what they were talking about. I don't think it has anything to do with engineer/designer recommendations. I think it's strictly a BMW/MINI business decision - offer FREE maintenance for the initial period of ownership as "good will" / marketing to sell more cars, but don't let the plan become too expensive. Sure BWM/MIN can get away for 50K - 60K miles or more without freqent maintenance, and by then if there's a failure it will only effect a certain percentage of vehicles and it will be out of warrenty and on the owner's or second owner's dime. Just my thoughts on the subject.

 

If you look at how the dipstick gets to the oil in the pan, you'll undestand at least why it's shaped the way it is.......it goes thru a series of convoluted tubes cast into the timing chain guides on it's way down, hence the need for the pointed ends. I still do not understand why people "hate" the dipstick and claim not to be able to read it - it's clear as can be to me....

I follow the twice a year or every 7,500 mile intervals - however, I think the most important changes are the first couple, especially one at less than 3K. I did my first one then and the oil was nasty - gritty and just black with metal particles (I'm guessing). Having followed the above interval since, the oil now comes out fairly clean looking and it has absolutely no gritty feel to it. Also, when you look down into the oil filler cap hole, the top of the head looks brand new. I think chances are good that the rest of the engine is the same....

I wonder if having gotten the crud out of the engine, I might be able to safely extend the intervals to 10K or so now?

Also, I'd like to point out again that ALL MINI turbo engines do not use or burn oil. Mine uses virtually none in between my oil changes (now at 40K miles) - that doesn't mean I don't think it's a good idea to check it frequently - but this point has been brought up before, and while some engines do burn oil, most do not. If you have one that does tho, you really need to keep it topped up ....

 

Hi Mark,

Some of us are super car-savvy, others pretty knowledgeable, some of us somewhat so (I'm in this category), and some that simply know how to drive their car and do what the manufacturer TELLS them to do. That doesn't make them idiots or cheap, and I would appreciate that this thread isn't hijacked further with more off-topic or inflammatory remarks that don't help the situation.

Bottom line, is that MINI made these recommendations to their customers. If anything happens during warranty, it's then pretty costly for MINI to have KNOWINGLY made these recommendations ...

Technically, my GF's car was NOT under warranty, due to time alone. BUT - was well within the normal mileage limit. MINI was smart about it, made a phone call, and then took care of the customer! Kudos to MINI.

So ... now MINI Corporate needs to figure out how to deal with this as a larger issue from the very simple standpoint of what is truly BEST PRACTICES, and then notifying customers accordingly.

Note: it may be difficult for some here to believe but many people who buy MINIs, at least around here, are not necessarily "car people". And so you know what ... they BELIEVE the manufacturer. This isn't a mark against them ... it is what it is.

What needs to happen is an appropriate change to their overall policy and recommendations, along with applicable notification to the customer base. We can only hope that internal discussions are already under way at MINI ...?

Regards,

Jeff K

 

Jeff,

I apologize for sounding like I was being superior in any aspect. I guess I assume that since I know what should be done that everyone does. You're right, some people don't know and simply put gas and oil in it. If it starts in the morning, all is good.

I'm glad your g/f got her car fixed and the original intent of this thread is a good warning to those that don't know.

So again, I apologize for taking your thread off it's mark. The "warning" was a good and fair warning for other people to take heed.

Mark

 

Good luck with that. Not to be overly pessimistic but for MINI to acknowledge that their maintenance interval, specifically OCI, was inaccurate or misguided would open the floodgates of liablity. Yes, they have extended the warrenty on the HPFP, but this is a much bigger and potentially more costly issue. While I'd like to see this happen, I am not holding my breath. And, BTW, I am not an anti big company / corporation person, but businesses rightfully or wrongfully are generally very resistant to open themselves to this type of liabilty.

 

those bean counters at MINI decided on those maintenance intervals. grrr....

 

When I bought my 2008 VW GTI the lead tech for the dealer, who is a very good friend, told me that although VW states that 10k is recommended oil change interval he said no longer than 7500. Now this tech last I heard was the #1 VW tech in the US, this is coming straight from VW themselves. He told me either change it at 5k or you get to look forward to a new engine around the time the warranty expires. This was right around the time they went from a 5year/40k mile warranty to a 3year/36k warranty. He said that in the past few months they had done four engine replacements on MKV GTIs and GLIs, all around 36k on them.

Now Im not saying that VW shortened the warranty length to 36k to catch owners who have to have engines replaced and have them pay for it but is very strange this happened. I would not be surprised if we see MINI take a similar stance on their warranty, 4year/50k to a 3/36...

 

I change my oil annually, but then I only drive five to six thousand miles a year.

I check the oil at every fill up, it gives me something to do other than stare at the gas nozzle.

I find the dipstick easy to read, but I understand that there are a couple of different designs for the dipstick, some may be harder than others to see the oil level on.

I had to add a quart oil about a month before my first annual oil change, but I think most of that was consumed during the break-in period.

I am two thousand miles into my second oil change and the level hasn't moved.

Dave

 

They're made in England at BMW's Hams Hall plant.

 

Doesnt matter where they are built, they are engineered by the French.

 

I think it's a good point that not nearly everyone who buys a MINI, or any car for that matter, is a car person and I think they have every right to follow the manufacturer's recommendations for oil changes and feel safe that their engine will not blow up prematurely. I'm leasing my MINI (3 year lease) so I will be covered by the maintenance and warranty programs the whole time I own the car. While that means I can follow their recommendations and not have to be concerned about a huge bill, I intend to change the oil at 1,500 to 2,000 miles and then every 5K after that because I feel an obligation to whomever buys my car three years from now. I would feel terrible knowing that I passed off a time bomb on another person, even if it was MINI that set the bomb to go off. This also gives me the option to buy it at the end of the lease if it makes financial sense to do it.

 

No, the Prince engine was developed by both BMW and Peugeot-Citroen.

http://www.bmwinformation.com/engines/prince.html

Dave