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R56 Beware: This is what MINI USA thinks about our complaints about engines knocking!

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R56 Beware: This is what MINI USA thinks about our complaints about engines knocking!

  #1  
Old 05-14-2010, 06:33 AM
nycminilaw
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Beware: This is what MINI USA thinks about our complaints about engines knocking!

Hi folks - following a Lemon Law arbitration hearing in New York this week, MINI USA and Manhattan MINI thought these noises merely evidenced the direct injection system in a Cooper S. This was a master tech and a regional engineer, folks, and I thought you guys might find these videos very interesting. I will be posting them soon.

In the coming week, I will put together a complete package for all fellow motoring members on what to expect should you ever find yourself in a lemon law case with MINI. I will also point out how you can prove any falsehoods that might present themselves. It is an unenviable position to be in. BTW, MINI USA's own engineer wouldn't even admit that the timing chain issues presented a problem to many people, nor that it took a few tries to get it right.

I am merely posting this information because it's the kind of thing that I would have found helpful before both purchasing the car, and obviously, before this hearing. I strongly believe that a company should stand behind it's own vehicle, and when the time comes, repair or replace if necessary.

Videos will be up shortly.

NYCMINILAW
 
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Old 05-14-2010, 07:16 AM
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As promised, the first video. More to come with my full write-up!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zl2jtiAMSSw
 

Last edited by nycminilaw; 05-14-2010 at 07:36 AM.
  #3  
Old 05-14-2010, 08:13 AM
nycminilaw
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And a second video! Wait until about the the second or third time you hear the engine revved. This is the kind of thing that belongs on Motoringfile. Come on MINI, stand behind your product like a responsible manufacturer!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU7aVGuSCiY
 
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Old 05-14-2010, 09:38 AM
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nycminilaw,

Keep us informed. I have been trying to keep track of what is going on with this whole scenario on our website.
 
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Old 05-14-2010, 09:53 AM
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I will put together a full write up this weekend. I don't want to come-off ranting - but think other people would find it helpful to see what I have gone through, and to know what to expect at one of these hearings. For them to deny that the cold-start and timing chain problems have affected numerous customers, and that MINI was unable to come up with an adequate fix right away, is really harmful for old and potential customers.

Typically, BMW and MINI put gag orders in their deals with customers. I have received no offer of any deal, so I am in the rare situation where I can dish.
 
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Old 05-14-2010, 09:57 AM
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Very nice!
 
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Old 05-14-2010, 10:04 AM
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This is very interesting. I have been doing a lot of research and this seems to be a very large issue. Bigger than what bmw/mini are making it out to be. Complaints are flying around left and right. We have been trying to put pressure on mini by gathering groups of people and asking Mini Cooper/BMW to do something. So far no luck. I hope your dealings might help the rest of us out a bit.
 
  #8  
Old 05-14-2010, 10:09 AM
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So you joined here to post this?
 
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Old 05-14-2010, 10:22 AM
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You're not going to get much traction....

Originally Posted by skippydog View Post
This is very interesting. I have been doing a lot of research and this seems to be a very large issue. Bigger than what bmw/mini are making it out to be. Complaints are flying around left and right. We have been trying to put pressure on mini by gathering groups of people and asking Mini Cooper/BMW to do something. So far no luck. I hope your dealings might help the rest of us out a bit.
the issue will go away for good with the VANOS system that will come out in less than a year. Till then, they'll pretend it's a) normal or b) fixed with all the stuff that they've done for those that choose to complain enough. That will put the majority of the cars well past the warranty date and they'll have dodged the bullet.

I actually don't think it's a recall issue myself, as not every car has the problem. It just sucks how it's hit or miss as to the dealer and MINI actually standing up to fix the problem for those that do have it. It's been going on for years now, and pretending that it's not a problem is just silly.

Matt
 
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Old 05-14-2010, 10:29 AM
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oh wow.....that sounds similiar to how the BMW E90/E92 had knocking from our wastegates. this is unacceptable and i hope this never happens to my Mini. I just lemoned my BMW E92, so I'm hoping this doesn't happen to me again....
 
  #11  
Old 05-14-2010, 10:37 AM
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Just to clarify for board members - this issue came up, under oath, at an arbitration hearing. I just thought it was ridiculous that the same videos which caused BMW and Manhattan MINI to spend thousands on repairs, later caused them to say that they thought it sounded fine.

Really, I am saddened by this whole experience... I guess this is the same company that, at one point, refused to refund the purchase of a car that was damaged before sale, and then hidden from the consumer (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_of_...,_Inc._v._Gore)
 
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Old 05-14-2010, 10:42 AM
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THere are examples

of both MINI being good (fixing things after warranty expiration) and not so good: "We've never heard of this before!" or "It's normal" or whatever the latest and greatest exuse of the day is. What baffles me is the lack of consistancy in the corporate position. This makes no sense at all.

good luck with the suit!

Matt
 
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Old 05-14-2010, 10:46 AM
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Call me deaf, but ... what exactly am I listening for that is the "bad" noise? I mean, the MINI is already far from being quiet -- the engine revs up and down a tiny bit at idle, you can hear dings and fzzzs and the engine is indeed not like the smooth V6 I used to have (altima se-r) but somehow I carry on as it seems not to be having any trouble.

In that second video, for example, at what precise mm:ss should I hear the "problem", and what am I listening for?
 
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Old 05-14-2010, 10:50 AM
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First video - exactly at the 40 second mark.
Second video - listen to 1:09.
 
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Old 05-14-2010, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by isthar View Post
Call me deaf, but ... what exactly am I listening for that is the "bad" noise?
The "bad" sound will be like a hammer hitting solid metal, or a very loud diesel-type knock, eminating from the glovebox area (the side of the motor the tensioner is on). it will last anywhere from 30 seconds to 3 minutes.

You cannot miss it, I guarantee you that.

nycminilaw good luck. the whole tensioner chain issue will probably force me to get rid of my otherwise (mostly) trouble-free car at warranty's end, and that'll be it for me, MINI-wise, considering my 05 S was a piece of crap.
 
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Old 05-14-2010, 01:49 PM
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Wait 'till you see the video from after the last timing chain repair (the latest version). I agree that this is not a real fix, and the video proves it. These are design flaws. Which is too bad because I bought wholeheartedly into MINI's branding, only to be crushed by a bad dealer and then BMW NA.
 
  #17  
Old 05-14-2010, 02:32 PM
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I'm not understanding here.....

I know they've repeated tried to fix this problem but as of late, they have.

They finally came out with the correct fix within the last couple of months. It was even on motoring file.

Why not just pull the bulletin to get it fixed?

Is it really worth the effort?

Maybe I'm missing something....


Mark
 
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Old 05-14-2010, 02:43 PM
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Mark - if you go back on Motoringfile, you can see that MINI has claimed it had the correct fix on several occasions. My point here is not about the timing issues as such, only that MINI was unable to stand behind their products and say what actually has been happening.
 
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Old 05-14-2010, 02:56 PM
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I understand but now that they are able to stand behind it and repair it correctly, isn't it water under the bridge?

Like Dr. O mentioned... once Vanos software is established, I'm sure all this old stuff will be "swept under the rug".

Anyway, good luck... wish you the best.

Mark
 
  #20  
Old 05-14-2010, 03:00 PM
nycminilaw
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Agreed ... except, in this instance, it wasn't repaired correctly. I will post the video tomorrow. It is from a time after the repair, and the noises are still there. Being one of those who was the first to get this latest SIM upgrade, I think we should all proceed with cautious optimism.
 
  #21  
Old 05-14-2010, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by orangecrush View Post
I understand but now that they are able to stand behind it and repair it correctly, isn't it water under the bridge?

Like Dr. O mentioned... once Vanos software is established, I'm sure all this old stuff will be "swept under the rug".

Anyway, good luck... wish you the best.

Mark
I will agree with Mark and Dr. O on this one. I think this is for people that just want to try and use the lemon law.
 
  #22  
Old 05-14-2010, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by orangecrush View Post

Maybe I'm missing something....


Mark

You're missing the part where nycminilaw wants his pound of flesh from Mini.



Personally, I'm suspicious that this is a lawyer seeking additional plaintiffs for a potential class action suit.
 
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Old 05-14-2010, 03:35 PM
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Ha. Good idea, but nope. Not the case. I guarantee it. I may be a lawyer, but I am also an owner, and one who got duped.
 
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Old 05-14-2010, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by nycminilaw View Post
Ha. Good idea, but nope. Not the case. I guarantee it. I may be a lawyer, but I am also an owner, and one who got duped.
Ding! We have a winnah!


How much are you seeking?
 
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Old 05-14-2010, 05:30 PM
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Ha. Well, I certainly wasn't trying to hide that, but at base, I'm a consumer. My major problem is that MINI USA / BMW NA's own engineers straight up mis-represented and lied under oath. I just don't want people to put false trust in these people
 

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