It depends what kind of Hybrid your buying.

My Insight would regularly get 90mpg on the freeway, but only average 50mpg in the city. It all depends on the kind of hybrid it is, series or parallel.

 

Makes em sound good doesnt it?

They used an R52, with the in-efficient supercharger...
Cabrio with the extra weight

and made it seem like it was better than mini cooper on gas mileage...

some good advertising if i must say...

 

It's also comparing the absolute worst gas mileage you could ever get in the cooper while driving it in a very spirited manner, with pie in the sky, best possible case gas mileage in the Escallade driven by my grandmother.

 

I don't think it's that hard to be deceptive, nor is being deceptive good advertising.

 

just checked the epa mpg site.

Escalade is 20/21 city/highway
Mini Cooper S convert auto 19/29

It is a valid comparison at least for city driving. The tri-tec supercharged is not very efficient. Add the automatic and extra weight and there you go. I'd guess the more stop and go driving the better the Escalade does in comparison.

Now the Escalade gets smoked on the highway.

 

Your correct I checked it....however I think the correct way would have been to compare a new model to a new model....

 

Oooh, 1MPG difference.

As was pointed out earlier: Cadillac Escalade Hybrid - 70,000$

Let's assume the MCSC is 35,000$.

Who wants to calculate how long it would take to break even on the deal? Anyone? Bueller?

 

Assume you always drive in City, 12000 miles per year, gas @ $2.25/gallon, 20mpg vs 19mpg + $0 Maintenance until the Universe disappears:

$12000/20*2.25*(1/20) = $67.50 per year

$35000/$67.50 = 518.519 Years. Yes in a little over 518.519 Years your caddy will start to earn you extra $$.

But factor in Mini's free maintenance for first 3 years, as by Edmunds.com: 2009 Caddy maintenance cost for first 3 years = $2256:

Now it will take 33.42 additional years on top of that (Total: 551.941 years).

 

The new convert should be somewhere near the current cooper S automatic which is 23/32 mpg.

I've never been pleased with mpg ratings and the Aisin transmission on the mini. It seems to take a 3-4 mpg hit over the 6 spd manual transmissions. I find that in contrast to other small cars which seem to take little to no mpg hit for an automatic.

It probably should also be noted that most people experience mixed driving mpg numbers so in reality the mini will always beat the escalade unless it is stuck in severe city stop and go driving.

 

And a BMW 530d gets better mileage than a Toyota Prius.

It has nothing to do with "American Car company BS". It's just a little thing called marketing and EVERY manufacturer does it. The Cadillac CTS is one of the better sedans on the road - can you handle the fact that it's made by GM? Even when these American companies DO start making better cars (which they are), you guys still won't believe it. You've trained yourselves to be Euro snobs because it's the best way to defend your decision. In reality, there are many American vehicles that are WAY more reliable than a MINI. All I'm saying is view things for what they are and not the label on their boot.

 

I've got a Caddy CTS and can't wait to get my MINI Clubman this weekend!!!!

Bu-Bye GM!

 

Might want to read the thread before claiming that we're just Euro snobs.

Cadillac pushed this commercial based on a 1 MPG (city only, it loses on highway mpg) and $35,000 difference.

I don't care what car companies are involved, that was a stupid comparison.

 

I agree with you 100% there are great American cars on the market..I own a couple. I think what some like myself are trying to say is they should campare a new model to a new model. It makes for a better agrument. If you were to say a 2009 model X gets better MPG than a 1999 model X it really has no value.

 

1) You have it backwards. My decision to buy Japanese or European was made by being raised in a Ford family and knowing first-hand exactly how much time was spent in the shop. Maybe they've improved (I hear good things about the Mondeo... oh, wait, still Euro-centric), but I've already moved on.

2) The label on the boot says a lot about a vehicle. Cars don't just magically appear, with some kind of lottery as to whose name gets slapped on afterward. Similar to the author's name on the front of a novel, the label on the boot tells a lot about what a design department has done in the past, and that gives some pretty good clues as to how well designed/built/etc. their products will be in the future. It's not foolproof (there are occasional one-hit-wonders, more than a few black sheep, and things can trend up or down over time), but it's a fairly reliable indicator from model-to-model.

 

I'm with you Red Bull. I agree that the comparison is silly (although many of them do the same thing - as worthless as it is).

However, I do laugh sarcastically at those that are bandwagon brand bashers. Things have (and are) changing. It's taken awhile to get there but it's getting there.

I don't currently own an American car (although I've owned a ton of them). However, I'm not blind to the fact that things change very rapidly in the auto industry. My last two cars have been German (and they've cost me a ton in maintenance). My wife drives a Mazda that I've had to do nothing but change the oil and put gas in it. When her lease is up, who knows what will replace it. I won't close my eyes and say "American cars suck" though. That's short-sighted and foolish. It's just not true in all cases. Granted, some American cars suck, some EU cars suck, some Japanese and Korean cars suck. There's plenty of "SUCK" to go around folks.

Remember the Hyundai Excel early 90s? LOL Compare that to the Genesis. That's a very short period of time for an automaker.

 

Personally, I believe Ford and GM have some of their best lineups in years. And the Escalade, I have to admit, is really nice, if you're looking for a large luxo-SUV.

Heck, when my dad was looking for a vehicle to replace his Odyssey, I convinced him to look at the Flex, which both of us really liked.

BUT. Consumer opinions in general are hard to change. Everyone remembers the junk Escorts and Taurii of the 90's, and that shows... in resale values. So, even though we liked the Flex better, and have no qualms about its build quality and reliability, resale value means the Toyota Venza was a wiser choice in the end. It's hard to argue with a $5,000 difference in resale values four years down the line.

 

The Fusion Hybrid and Ford Flex get pretty damn good reviews. You are right that they [Ford] used to suck (hence all the clever acronyms). Don't assume that they still suck because your dad's ford was in the shop a lot.

I spent WAY more time, money, etc. maintaining my European vehicles than I have any American car I've owned. At the time, I chose Euro due to the driving experience as well as fit/finish which, for me, was clearly superior. Also, American vehicle design was just far too bland for my tastes. However, all of those things have been changing in the last year or two. There's more cheap plastic and half-baked items on the MINI than you can shake a stick at! I still bought one because it was fun to drive and I'm a mod freak... it fit the bill for me. Keeping an open mind will serve you better in life. Blind prejudice towards anything (people, cars, pit bulls, etc.) just doesn't make sense.

 

You make excellent points! I agree 100% with that decision making process - at least it boiled down to a financial decision rather than "Ford sucks, they always have".

 

The Genesis has been on the road how many months now? And there appears to be a lot of marketing dollars being thrown behind it (makes me suspicious, like when a movie studio pumps up something like Mall Cop). The tricky thing is that you can't point at one brand new model from a car company and say everything has changed. In my book, a car company has to prove away a bad reputation it's earned, and the Genesis hasn't been on the road long enough to do so. And, being Hyundai's first rear-wheel drive vehicle, first V8 engine, etc... I don't have much confidence that all the kinks have been worked out, either. But only time will tell.

Actually it was my dad's truck (don't remember the model), Aerostar minivan, Explorer SUV, my mom's 2-3 Crown Vics, my Taurus, my sister's Tempo, etc.

My Tercel and Civic, however... both proved very reliable and very inexpensive to maintain. It was like night and day. (I have a MINI on order, but have not owned a Euro-brand to date. And, to be fair, it wasn't claims of reliability that sold me on MINI.)

 

Ick.... those vehicles leave a bad taste in my mouth as well. All dogs.

 

We agree..could not have said it better. I am interested in buying American and always will when I can..I am American and would have a hard time saying that our products are not worth buying...It does seem like people forget we need to support our own American companies or one day they will all be gone.

In my opinion the American car makers are coming along pretty strong and have an uphill battle to get the American people to trust in their products are the best. With all thats going on these days their troubles could not have come at a worse time.

I always have had good luck with GM products and will always have one in my stable. I make a large part of my living supporting the Corvette community, its part of our lives in this house.

 

I got upgraded to a very low mileage V8 Genesis in one of my last work trips, and had to pinch myself repeatedly to remind myself I was in... a... Hyundai?? Fast, refined, luxurious, and most astonishing of all: Lexus-quiet in the interior, even with the V8 blazing at 80mph.

Hate to say it, but it's true: nicest rental Ive had in years.

 

[quote=Red Bull;2676786] In my opinion the American car makers are coming along pretty strong and have an uphill battle to get the American people to trust in their products are the best. With all thats going on these days their troubles could not have come at a worse time.[quote]

back when I sold caddys about ten years ago, the lineup could have not been more boring, and the reliability/BQ any worse, I mean the Catera?? I actually witnessed one break down right when it was being driven off the lot.

Now? what a turnaround, esp. with the V-Series-- Caddys are no longer Buick-boring. I saw a new CTS-V sitting on the lot one day (with a $10K dealer markup) and thought to myself, "yeah, I'd like to take that bulging-hooded bad-boy for a spin."

 

]Well my first car at 16 was a 1972 Triumph Spitfire, and I have been in love with British cars ever since. I have also owned a TR6, and a MGB. My parents owned a Austin Healy Sprite for awhile. I have owned several American and Japanese cars over the years too, but never was I as happy with any of them as I was with my quirky, troublesome, pain in the butt Triumph. So probably for no good reason I am a Euro Car Snob.

I am really a small car snob. I just don't buy into the American Car ideal that we all need these giant gas guzzling, beasts that seat 7 and have 23 cup holders. It has nothing to do with perceived quality or reliability its just that what Detroit manufactures doesn't appeal to me. The Cadillac add is not about selling Escalades to potential MINI buyers, its about reassuring potential Escalade buyers that its OK to by one even in this current political climate. The problem with the add is that it dose it in a not entirely honest way.

 

Spot on.

I consider myself an informed auto consumer, having bought perhaps 200 cars or so.

I remember the days when American cars with 50,000 miles meant it was time to sell, before a car reached 75,000 and the used car value would really plummet.

(In fact, remember when odometers went to 99,000 and then they turned over to zero. That tells you what even Detroit thought about their cars. And remember Kelly Blue Book's junk value on cars that had 90,000 or more miles on them.)

I remember when 80,000+ miles meant the American car was junk and a real risk to buy.

I remember when Japanese cars (and to a lesser extent some European cars, such as German made) meant that a car with 100,000+ miles meant the car still had 50,000 to go before needing repairs.

I remember when the consuming public started to get the message, American cars are junk, Japanese cars last a long, long time.

I remember when Detroit did not give a sheet about all this because they practiced planned obsolescence and aggressive cost cutting, meaning they built cars (and parts) to wear out by 75,000 miles, the goal being to sell us a new car. After all, Detroit "conspirators" said, how can a company sell new cars if old ones are built to last longer than three to four years, or 75,000 miles.

With all this, I turned to owning European and Japanese cars. This is after being burned with the four American cars I have owned over my lifetime. One of them was a GM car bought new that had an aluminum block, that when the car overheated it would cause the block to warp. End result, a then-expensive $3,500 engine replacement. The ultimate insult, GM did not give a rip and would not cover it under warranty. While in college I had to pay that $3,500 out of pocket.

Detroit's attitude and mistreatment to me cost them a lot of money. 196 cars and counting, I never bought American again.

And even more significant, with the 100 or so people I have had to help with car buying, I have never guided them to buy American. All listened to me and bought Japanese or German.

So in 2009 some people in here (and Detroit) are wondering why nothing Detroit says will convince people to buy their cars?

Hey, it took 30 years of mistreatment to forge the attitude I have.

It's going to take more than some catchy ads and a few mea culpas in front of Congress (that I don't believe) to motivate me to consider even kicking American car tires.

Nowadays buying an American car is asking us to take a chance on a $25,000 to $30,000 investment. That's not counting repairs and depreciation.

Sorry Detroit, our divorce appears final. And that maxim seems appropriate: "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me."