can it keep up with a MCSm? ...or is there magic in the footwork?

 

Look at the 4 minute mark. But you have to make up your own mind.

Now to wait for the battle royale

 

Its not bad, test drove it but, still enjoyed the 6 speed MUCH better!*** puts flame suit on****

 

when I had a auto loaner it wasn't too bad... better than expected but not as good as the manual...

 

I've got the MCS steptronic tranny w paddle shifters, etc. When driving in manual mode, accelerating up through the gears, I would imagine that it's pretty close, especially in sport setting.

However, the main and obvious difference I find is that the convenience factor of auto downshift (i.e. heavy traffic, defensive maneuvers) is helpful in the deceleration process. I would guess that the true manual tranny would feel sharper, quicker, lighter and more nimble but the steptronic offers fairly equal performance with the added convenience and choice depending upon driving conditions.

Clear as mud, eh..

 

No need for flame suit. Preferences are are just that... preferences.

Manual Mode is pretty manual except that the MINI will not let you make a bad shift or skip a gear. It's an entirely different experience than a manual trans but still fun.

 

people keep saying things like "not as good" or manual is "better"-- is this indicating the "feel"? For instance, I have never driven a manual, so Im starting with a clean slate feel-wise. In regards to my question.. is there anything mechanically inferior with the steptronic that would handicap the car allowing a MCSm to preform better?

Obviously, someone with an MCSm, through experience, probably "feels" the rpm instead of having to glance at the dash, thus improving their preformance.. but my question regards the actual car itself, not the performance of the driver...

from what I can gather from that video, the answer is probably "no."

 

It's definitely not the same as having a clutch. It's just different. It might be the whole paddle shifter thing which is really cool, but not the full body experience of using your left leg!

 

JC - if you've never driven a manual you should. There are differences although I would say they "feel" the same.

Handicap performance? No, I don't think so.

Yes, different drivers = different performance.

And since you've never driven a manual I would suggest / recommend the steptronic auto tranny. It'll give you the best of both worlds.

The bottom line on all of this stuff, it depends. There are many factors to consider, not just which one is "better". There really is no right or wrong answer, only...it depends.

 

Any system in which the equipment can choose to override the human's input is not truly manual, IMO.

Therefore, the manumatic mode of the auto isn't really manual. It's different... it is fun in its own way, but it's definitely different. Best of both worlds? Absolutely not. It's a compromise, but one that many people are very happy with. Not me, but many other people!

Maximum control over the MINI's actions can only truly be achieved with a manual transmission though.

My #1 chief complaint about most automatics (including those used in MINIs) are the delay between when you tell it to change gears, and when it actually does it. I'd rather do it myself and know it's going to happen the instant I take action. There are a few new automatic designs that don't have this problem, but they aren't sold in MINIs. VW, with their DSG automatic transmission, is probably the best designed.

My #2 complaint is the fact that automatics sometimes override your actions. While that's fine for beginners, who may accidentally do something to damage the car (like shift into a lower gear instead of higher), as an experienced manual transmission driver, I hate it. If I want to run the engine at redline, let me! If I want to run the engine in 6th gear at only 45mph, let me! etc. etc.

 

I may be the Aisin paddle-shifter's biggest fan around here... but there's DEFINITELY a difference... the auto has a torque converter - a viscous coupling that produces some additional drivetrain loss vs. a clutch which, when engaged, is a direct link between the engine and transmission. This has both a performance impact and a "feel" impact. In a manual MCS, you can "feel" the engine directly driving the wheels... in any torque converter type auto, there's a bit of a "buffer" in the middle of that... the Aisin torque converter is MUCH better than the one in, say, my Town & Country minivan... but it's still there, and can still be felt.

That said, for me and my driving style and conditions, the benefits of the auto outweigh this mechanical limitation. But YMMV.

 

Technically, it happens the instant you complete the action... which is a multi-step process... vs. a one-step process on the paddles. I absolutely "get" what you mean... but shifting the manual requires a series of events to be executed, culminating in releasing the clutch.... it's not "instantaneous" as some suggest... it's just that the full sequence is in your control, vs. the .25 seconds with the paddles when it's up to the car to complete the process...

 

the issue to me is that it will still auto-upshift. If I'm on a track and in the middle of a sweeper, I want to be able to play with the throttle to control the attitude of the car, and the true manual is much more responsive in that mode. I also don't have to worry about it deciding to upshift at the wrong time.

Plus I know for sure what gear I'm in at all times, which is not necessarily the case with a manu-matic.

 

Splitting hairs a bit?

Bottom line, with a manual, I know exactly what action is going to happen, and exactly when, because I'm the one doing it.

I've seen the advertised .25 second claim for the automatic in the MINI... but my experiences driving them (as loaner cars) has found that the results are quite varied. Even in sport mode, and tapping the paddles, I have still found many situations when I wanted to downshift and accelerate right now, and been frustrated while I wait for the car to decide to listen to me and actually do it. Funny how I've never had that problem with a manual transmission.

Oh, and when I'm in a hurry... I can shift faster than .25 seconds anyway!

Yes, it's possible to miss a shift in the manual, but the only thing to blame when that happens is the object resting between the steering wheel and the seat. Actually, the automatic MINIs do have an indicator to tell you what gear you're in, provided you're in "manual" mode and not full automatic.

 

Note that I will NEVER defend the current Aisin auto as a superior solution on the track...

And, Edge, this discussion is all about splitting hairs, isn't it?

Again.... on the track, that level of control matters (unless you're a F1 racer, when I guess letting the car execute the shift is good enough... I know, cheap shot). But, with the currently available options, on the track, I'd also prefer the manual MINI....

On the Dragon, I'd rather have the auto... but that's just me. Many purists disagree with me on this point.

 

I'd much rather have had a manual shift on the MINI (to arrive soon). However, I have badly arthritic knees and an automatic is probably better at the moment. It is nice to hear good things about the MINI's auto.

 

I've owned an A3 with VW's DSG transmission, and THAT is an automatic that is superior to any manual I've used. Heck, it IS a manual, just with an electronically operated clutch!

having said that, I still would prefer the true manual just for the fun factor. But that DSG makes you feel like an F1 driver.....

 

My first two MCSs were manual, my wife's current MCS is auto. I've driven it in manual mode; hate the paddle shifters, don't really care for popping it in and out of gear on the floor shifter either. I do enjoy driving it, but really like just putting the hammer down and going rather than choosing a gear. My other car is a different story... manual or nothing.

 

I wasn't talking about the track.Nope - there's a world of difference between manu-matic mode and a true manual. It's not even close to "splitting hairs".

Yet you chose to point out that there are steps involved in manual shifting. Of course there are - that's why it's manual shifting. As I understood it, the discussion was focused on level of control, not number of steps.I never said all automatics are bad. F1 automatics are so completely beyond what we see in consumer cars today that they are little more than an "interesting note". The VW DSG transmission is a different story, but I already mentioned it above (as BSUCardinalfan has now as well).

Look, I'm not saying that automatics don't have a place. Many people choose automatics for their own reasons, and that's fine. Choice is a good thing. However, to suggest that the manual mode of the MINI automatic transmission is anywhere close to a real manual transmission is patently ridiculous.

Although I may loathe them personally, I will not criticize someone for their own choice, on their own car... as long as their choice is an educated one!

(i.e. cries of "it's too hard" and "I can't do it" when trying to learn how to drive a manual just don't cut it for me... notwithstanding a disability. You have to learn to crawl before you can walk or run, after all... and everybody started somewhere, in the same, embarrassing way - stalling the car, bunny-hopping, etc.)Totally understandable, and far be it from me to suggest that automatics don't have an appropriate place. They do... but not in my own cars (yet!).

 

The cool thing is it does shift very quick and smooth

 

if mcs use the same 4 season weather tires then which one is better performance to drive on the uphill with black ice road (snow melt to ice) in winter? 6-speed manual vs 6-speed auto w/agitronic? try to image the wheel will spin on uphill.

btw, mine is automatic cuz i am deaf to use my right hand a lot to communicate in asl with my deaf wife or to enjoy drinking. but if you want to drink in manual mcs then you have to wait until it reach the max mph before you grab the drink or you sip in each gears.

 

after all the dual mass flywheel and clutch and defective plastic throwout bearing issues with my R53--and my left knee's acute degenerative kneecap condition--Im going with autotrans in my R56. At least those are covered under most extended warranties, whereas clutches and DM flywheels are not. but that's another issue.

I drove a 2008 MCa loaner with the auto (when I was having my flywheel and clutch replaced) and was VERY impressed with the responsiveness and smoothness of the automatic shifts. Sure one cannot rev-match, but so what? Friday I demo a Club S with auto to make the final decision before the order is placed, but unless it's sluggish my mind is made up.

Too bad the factory JCW doesnt (yet) have some kind of DSG auto option...

 

Hey Edge, chill out dude. Administrator or not, you sound like an arrogant, narcissistic jerk bolding words, telling others they're wrong and indeed splitting hairs over issues like choice and opinion. Kind of an interesting, fun thread just became no fun at all.

 

Perhaps you did not read my text properly. I tried very hard to point out that there are indeed many valid reasons to choosing an automatic (including simple personal preference!). I totally appreciate that people are entitled to their own choices.

However, in case you hadn't noticed, this is a discussion forum, and so debate on different viewpoints is much of the reason we are here. Debate and discussion are very good things - provided that they do not dissolve into personal attacks, as you have chosen to do.

If there's anyone who needs to learn a lesson here, it's you. Your decision to attack me personally, instead of debating the topic, is not welcome on NAM.

I don't expect everyone to agree with my viewpoints (bolded or not) - and that's all they are... viewpoints. I may be an Administrator here, but I'm a MINI owner just like any of you, and I'm entitled to express my opinion as well. I don't work for NAM as a full-time job, you know... I'm a MINI enthusiast first, NAM Administrator second.

Stay off the personal attacks.

 

I think me and Edge are both just in argumentative moods today.

In truth, we agree on much more of this topic than we disagree... I jerked his chain and he responded as expected.

I just love this particular discussion.
Every time it happens.
Which is often.