R56 How 'manual' is the manual mode in an automatic R56?
if mcs use the same 4 season weather tires then which one is better performance to drive on the uphill with black ice road (snow melt to ice) in winter? 6-speed manual vs 6-speed auto w/agitronic? try to image the wheel will spin on uphill.
btw, mine is automatic cuz i am deaf to use my right hand a lot to communicate in asl with my deaf wife or to enjoy drinking. but if you want to drink in manual mcs then you have to wait until it reach the max mph before you grab the drink or you sip in each gears.
btw, mine is automatic cuz i am deaf to use my right hand a lot to communicate in asl with my deaf wife or to enjoy drinking. but if you want to drink in manual mcs then you have to wait until it reach the max mph before you grab the drink or you sip in each gears.
By the way, you shouldn't drink and drive - sorry, couldn't resist.
I've owned an A3 with VW's DSG transmission, and THAT is an automatic that is superior to any manual I've used. Heck, it IS a manual, just with an electronically operated clutch!
having said that, I still would prefer the true manual just for the fun factor. But that DSG makes you feel like an F1 driver.....
having said that, I still would prefer the true manual just for the fun factor. But that DSG makes you feel like an F1 driver.....
Honestly it all comes down to personal preference and where you drive mostly and that is great MINI offers both types of transmissions.
Personally I went with the 6-speed automatic and absolutely enjoy it because 95% of my driving is in stop and go local traffic and a clutch would have been very hard on my arthritis in my knee.I use the paddle shifters all the time for spirited driving or if there is a lot of traffic back to the automatic mode.If I am on an open road then I will also engage the sport button for even better response.
Personally I went with the 6-speed automatic and absolutely enjoy it because 95% of my driving is in stop and go local traffic and a clutch would have been very hard on my arthritis in my knee.I use the paddle shifters all the time for spirited driving or if there is a lot of traffic back to the automatic mode.If I am on an open road then I will also engage the sport button for even better response.
Modern manuals are better in traffic if you ask me. My left leg never gets tired, it's always the right. And usually moreso in an automatic because you use the brakes more.
On my daily commute that includes more than it's fair share of stop and go construction/accident/nonsense traffic I'm much more uncomfortable in my wife's automatic when I take that than my manual.
I can only presume the stigma against manuals in traffic comes from the days where the clutch pedal required a lot of effort to operate, that's just not true in today's cars anymore outside of aftermarket/true sports car setups.
On my daily commute that includes more than it's fair share of stop and go construction/accident/nonsense traffic I'm much more uncomfortable in my wife's automatic when I take that than my manual.
I can only presume the stigma against manuals in traffic comes from the days where the clutch pedal required a lot of effort to operate, that's just not true in today's cars anymore outside of aftermarket/true sports car setups.
MCa's transmission is the most enjoyable automatic I have driven.
It has been thirty years since I have Enjoyed a Stick Shift, used to special order and wait months for a Stick. Now, even the Getrag (must be the best) did nothing for me.
No doubt that you Can Speed Shift a Manual in far less than ¼ second, but for normal driving (and shifting) would think that the Aisin Agitronic would be shifting faster.
It has been thirty years since I have Enjoyed a Stick Shift, used to special order and wait months for a Stick. Now, even the Getrag (must be the best) did nothing for me.
No doubt that you Can Speed Shift a Manual in far less than ¼ second, but for normal driving (and shifting) would think that the Aisin Agitronic would be shifting faster.
I have an MCa because I purchased off-the-lot and got what was available, and settled as the tranny was less important than other choices I needed to make at the time.
That said, I would have preferred the stick.
But ... I find that I really like this transmission... just not in "D" mode. Rather, I like it in "DS" mode with the Sport button engaged, or in steptronic/manumatic mode with Sport button on. I often find myself switching to "DS" from "M" in acceleration applications (highway entrances, winding roads) because I find it often makes better RPM decisions than I do, and, I have the perception that it shifts more quickly than when directed by stick/paddle.
I loathe non-Sport modes, except in parking lots and parking structures, where the increased power steering is convenient.
That said, I would have preferred the stick.
But ... I find that I really like this transmission... just not in "D" mode. Rather, I like it in "DS" mode with the Sport button engaged, or in steptronic/manumatic mode with Sport button on. I often find myself switching to "DS" from "M" in acceleration applications (highway entrances, winding roads) because I find it often makes better RPM decisions than I do, and, I have the perception that it shifts more quickly than when directed by stick/paddle.
I loathe non-Sport modes, except in parking lots and parking structures, where the increased power steering is convenient.
I at first wanted the Auto but as I always do polled a few mini mechanics and asked which gives them more problems, the said Auto, they have 2X more auto trans coming in with real issues then Manuals, and they are all very costly, if they were not covered by warranty.
I went to the six speed for better MPG and a better ride, the auto made it feel like a yaris not a cooper.
To each his own.........
I went to the six speed for better MPG and a better ride, the auto made it feel like a yaris not a cooper.
To each his own.........
All in all, it boils down to preference. The autos have come a long way, but they are not manuals.
As far as the pros and cons, I'd put it thusly:
Pros:
- Quick shift, always into the proper gear, will not allow you to input a dangerous shift
- In situations where you need to get out of the way immediately, kickdown will downshift and get you moving right then, not after you clutch, change, and go
- Keep both hands on the wheel through extremely technical twisty sections requiring shifts.
- Enable shifts mid-corner and other odd times that wouldn't be advisable with a manual
- Anyone can drive it (in case you're intoxicated, injured, significant other/hot girl you just picked up wants to try it out etc.)
Cons:
- Loss of power/feel through torque converter
- Not as fuel efficient as a manual can be
- As a rule, autos are much more expensive to repair than manuals
- Not as quick shifting as some manual drivers
- Anyone can drive it (thieves)
- Not as fun as throwing a stick (opinion, but could still be considered a con)
- Can't get LSD / JCW Tuning Kit
These are just the ones off the top of my head. Anyone else?
As far as the pros and cons, I'd put it thusly:
Pros:
- Quick shift, always into the proper gear, will not allow you to input a dangerous shift
- In situations where you need to get out of the way immediately, kickdown will downshift and get you moving right then, not after you clutch, change, and go
- Keep both hands on the wheel through extremely technical twisty sections requiring shifts.
- Enable shifts mid-corner and other odd times that wouldn't be advisable with a manual
- Anyone can drive it (in case you're intoxicated, injured, significant other/hot girl you just picked up wants to try it out etc.)
Cons:
- Loss of power/feel through torque converter
- Not as fuel efficient as a manual can be
- As a rule, autos are much more expensive to repair than manuals
- Not as quick shifting as some manual drivers
- Anyone can drive it (thieves)
- Not as fun as throwing a stick (opinion, but could still be considered a con)
- Can't get LSD / JCW Tuning Kit
These are just the ones off the top of my head. Anyone else?
Last edited by wbarnhill; Jul 3, 2008 at 06:25 AM. Reason: Re-edited to Blimey's suggestions
Pretty good list.
Other pros:
Keep both hands on the wheel through extremely technical twisty sections requiring shifts.
Enable shifts mid-corner and other odd times that wouldn't be advisable with a manual.... (manual owners retort will be "if you weren't a klutz you wouldn't need to shift in the middle of a corner"...)
I think the above two statements better capture the concept behind your "better control of when to shift" point... Manual owners will rightfully disagree about the "what gear you want to be in" point- the manual gives you direct access to gears... with the paddles, you have to shift "through" gears to drop two gears, etc.. They'll also rightfully disagree about the "when to shift" point on the grounds that, with a clutch, THEY control when the shift is executed...
Again, to me, the only actual shifting advantage for the steptronic is in weird and twisty environments where you
(a) benefit from keeping both hands available for steering at all times and
(b) can't always rely on having a straightish section to shift in like you would on most tracks.
Other pros:
Keep both hands on the wheel through extremely technical twisty sections requiring shifts.
Enable shifts mid-corner and other odd times that wouldn't be advisable with a manual.... (manual owners retort will be "if you weren't a klutz you wouldn't need to shift in the middle of a corner"...)
I think the above two statements better capture the concept behind your "better control of when to shift" point... Manual owners will rightfully disagree about the "what gear you want to be in" point- the manual gives you direct access to gears... with the paddles, you have to shift "through" gears to drop two gears, etc.. They'll also rightfully disagree about the "when to shift" point on the grounds that, with a clutch, THEY control when the shift is executed...
Again, to me, the only actual shifting advantage for the steptronic is in weird and twisty environments where you
(a) benefit from keeping both hands available for steering at all times and
(b) can't always rely on having a straightish section to shift in like you would on most tracks.
Last edited by BlimeyCabrio; Jul 3, 2008 at 06:37 AM.
Honestly it all comes down to personal preference and where you drive mostly and that is great MINI offers both types of transmissions.
Personally I went with the 6-speed automatic and absolutely enjoy it because 95% of my driving is in stop and go local traffic and a clutch would have been very hard on my arthritis in my knee.
Personally I went with the 6-speed automatic and absolutely enjoy it because 95% of my driving is in stop and go local traffic and a clutch would have been very hard on my arthritis in my knee.
Cybergypsy,
There can be no doubt that based on your driving both transmissions,
your selection of the Getrag was best.
Fuel efficency is a bonus for you of aproximately 25 miles further for each tank,
not to mention the 25 tankfull's cost of the Aisin option, but this should not trump driving enjoyment.
I have owned Automatic Autos that I wished were Stick Shifted, but the mpg factor was never the reason.
_________________________________
as mentioned by jggimi, the reliability issue with MINI Automatics requires clarification:
From: MotoringFile Buyers Guides
The only MINI currently equipped with the CVT Automatic Transmission is the 'non-S' Cabrio and that will change with 2009 model.
Although the Aisin Automatic has only been offered by MINI since the 2005 MCs model,
that transmission has a long trouble free history with very reliable autos from Japan.
__________________________________________________ ________________________
edit:-
After my 'test-drive' with the MCs Stick-Shift led me to believe that was not the Transmission for me; I had this confirmed:
There is a remote location that I often fly into and due to lack of available transportation, a 'Company' car is always left for my use.
In the past, this has always been an older Toyota (Aisin
) Automatic.
The very next flight from my MINI Super Stick drive, there was a New Ford equipped with a Clutch and 'five-on-the-floor' left for my use.
No traffic in this remote location, but could not believe how much I preferred that Old Automatic Toyota. My choice was now certain
There can be no doubt that based on your driving both transmissions,
your selection of the Getrag was best.
Fuel efficency is a bonus for you of aproximately 25 miles further for each tank,
not to mention the 25 tankfull's cost of the Aisin option, but this should not trump driving enjoyment.
I have owned Automatic Autos that I wished were Stick Shifted, but the mpg factor was never the reason.
_________________________________
as mentioned by jggimi, the reliability issue with MINI Automatics requires clarification:
From: MotoringFile Buyers Guides
"...we’d suggest staying away from the CVT equipped MINI One and Cooper.
There have been many recent reports of the transmission failing altogether with as little as 50,000 miles on the odometer. .."
There have been many recent reports of the transmission failing altogether with as little as 50,000 miles on the odometer. .."
Although the Aisin Automatic has only been offered by MINI since the 2005 MCs model,
that transmission has a long trouble free history with very reliable autos from Japan.
__________________________________________________ ________________________
edit:-
There is a remote location that I often fly into and due to lack of available transportation, a 'Company' car is always left for my use.
In the past, this has always been an older Toyota (Aisin
) Automatic.The very next flight from my MINI Super Stick drive, there was a New Ford equipped with a Clutch and 'five-on-the-floor' left for my use.
No traffic in this remote location, but could not believe how much I preferred that Old Automatic Toyota. My choice was now certain
Last edited by pilotart; Jul 3, 2008 at 07:08 AM. Reason: Add information
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