Great example of why these survey's are meaningless!

If you think ANY modern sports car is going to go to 240k miles on factory brakes, you're smoking something. To expect that a car go to 80k miles and never have a single issue (Squeak, creak, rattle, etc) you've basically ruled out about 98% of the cars on the road today from EVERY manufacturer.

This isn't a 1972 VW Rabbit with a stereo and an iron block that goes forever. You've got computers that monitor the brakes that are more powerful than the computers that sent us to the moon. Cars are complicated now a days, and as such will require more fiddling. Expecting a modern car to go 100k miles without any reason to take it into the dealership is so absurd it's laughable.

 

I don't disagree that it could be a quality issue but for most people when they see the JD numbers, they automatically assume that each was a hardware failure of some sort.

I would like to see one number for customer usage complaints and one for where things actually broke or failed. but that's just my preference.

 

I'd have to call that ridiculous. If you want something that simple you'll need to stay in some very old cars indeed - or stay out of anything with modern comforts.

Try jumping into a modern 30k+ car and for sure there will be something you need a manual to learn how to do (or someone to show you). You ever looked into a mercedes or bmw (esp. a 7 series)? It's as bad as an airplane cockpit. I bet you couldn't even put a 7 series into "drive" if someone didn't show you how to do it. however once you know how it is very simple.

Ignorant (different from stupid) people who don't read the manual should not be a reflection upon the car.

 

Exactly, example...

My Lexus IS300 which was had all the maintenance performed and was nothing more than a daily driver had the transmission fail at 30k miles. Lexus replaced the transmission and said this was a common issue.

At 68K miles, the motor blew! To this day I do not know what happened but it was out of warranty so I had to buy a motor and have it installed. My wife's E36 M3 had a number of electrical issues, my E36 M3 ended up with a blown water pump, rear differential cracked in half...driving 45mph straight...and had a number of electical issues.

Needless to say...any and all cars have issues, go to Toyota, Honda, any of the top makers and hang around the service department for a bit and you will realize they all have their fair share of issues.

It comes down to build quality, maintenance, and design. Some cars will run without issue, others have a lot of issues, my theory is the basic quality of construction initially, quality of parts, and a product of upkeep, useage, and of course environment dictate the reliability.

 

This survey didn't sound like it had anything to do with reliability nor did it have much to do with quality/build issues from the factory (did anyone actually fill one of these 200+ question surveys out?). The post about early Minis getting docked by JD Power because of the lack of cupholders supports that. CR does more of a reliability survey, which is what this thread's posts is talking about, not stuff like "do you have adequate places for your drink". I'm sure the survey influences the public car buyers, so Mini takes it seriously. Mini resale values are very high, partly because we pay MRSP of course. But without knowing what the survey asks I can't draw any conclusions as to what it means as far as the car being manufactured well (mine's been perfect).

 

So it seems like the message a lot of you want to send BMW/Mini is; 'ending up next to last in a national initial quality survey published in every paper in the country doesn't mean anything, the survey is crap, don't worry about trying to improve the cars because we love them jut as they are.' Did I pretty much capture it?

 

No. It is a concern and BMW/MINI should address it. I take issue on the statistical side. These numbers are like arguing over a fraction of an inch when measuring a 200' long building. The difference is insignificant. However, you have a point, perception becomes increasingly important when measured values are no longer visible to the eye. Peace and happy motoring!

 

WELL! I own the last 2 cars (MINI & Jeep) & LOVE 'em both. Maybe the study is wrong? Wouldn't trade the Jeep when we bought the Mini & won't trade the Mini unless we buy another Mini. Take that, JD Power.

 

I just noticed that the Detroit Free Press can't spell Isuzu. Guess their graphics department was too busy watching the Red Wings when they cranked this out...

(BTW, the Isuzu sample size is smaller than MINI? Maybe true, but I find that surprising.)

 

Anyone know what gen MINI was included in this study? If it was 1st gen cars, I'm surprised the MINIs didn't come in dead last. I love my car but its spent moe than 5% of it's life in the shop (all electronic/electrical issues). I'm hoping they weren't yet looking at the 2nd gen cars. Otherwise I won't hear the end of it from my wife (we're about ready to order a new MINI for her).

 

Like others have said the survey is questionably reliable. My Porsche had only one problem during the six years of ownership, but it was the rear main seal which is a HUGE deal (like $3k to fix). Plus it wasn't a daily driver, and most people's aren't, so if it had a problem I generally didn't find out for a week or two. I've found word-of-mouth and actual performance of the MINI to get great. JDP is not always where to look when researching anyway, I came here to NAM and got the information first hand.

 

2008 R56s.

Here's a link to a summary breakdown of eight quality categories: four in mechanical, four in design:

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings...ings-by-brand/

You can also click on category titles to get additional descriptions of each category.

 

Isuzu has withdrawn from the US market. For several years the only 2 models sold have been rebadged GM SUVs/trucks.

 

Works for me!!

 

This is not good news. I don't blame the survey. I don't blame the owners for filling out the survey. The blame lies with the mfgr. and the quality of the product delivered to customers.
As a couple of people mentioned, most mfgrs take the survey seriously and try to improve the initial quality of their products. MINI needs to improve.

Here are more detailed survey results for the 08 Mini. It separates "design" issues from "mechancial" issues. It sure doesn't look llike the MINI is ranked low because of cupholder design! Its low for MANY measures.. This isn't JDpowers opinion, its the opinion of fellow MINI owners...

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/MINI/Co...chback/ratings

 

I did not know that...and of course, since JDP only appears to be looking at the most recent (i.e., 2008) model year, their assessment of insufficient data for Isuzu makes sense.

Interesting that the R56 Powertrain Quality Mechanical/Design got the highest marks among the scores. I guess the cold start chatter issue--though potentially the most serious--probably doesn't show up much in the survey since it only includes items reported within the first 90 days. It's the nit-picky stuff (melting scoops, weeping washers, sunroof noise, getting used to the turn signal control, etc.) that get early attention and thus, reported in the survey.

 

I'm really sorry that this will be my first post. I call BS on this survey for a few simple reasons. Audi, Jaguar ? Nuff said.

 

The fact that JD Powers still doesn't have a picture for the Clubman, they call it a "wagon", and they said "no changes for 2008" pretty much sums up my opinion of their survey

 

Well I've had a re-think on this subject (based on recent events) and I've come to the following conclusion: It doesn't matter WHY the Mini is ranked so low, what BMW MUST do now is make the necessary improvements as quickly as possible to get the numbers up as high as possible for Mini. BMW boasts about how they have superior product quality because they are their own company, well they now need to back their advertising with real world results.

If I continue to have issues/problems with my 07 Cooper throughout the rest of the year, I'll sell it in a heartbeat and never buy one again.

Face it folks, there plenty of fun cars to drive out there, and many of them have much better reliability ratings...

 

I guess after reading those descriptions when I go pick up my MINI in September I should bring along a bucket.

I gathered from JDP that intuitive, simplified controls and functions make for a better car. Personally I have found many computer programs which claim to be intuitive anything but intuitive for me. Following that thought - if others find the MINI too complex to handle maybe it will be just right for me. I am not judging anyone, but you can not design anything a car, a house or a kitchen appliance which is simple for all. Sometimes what is simple to one is complex to another and visa versa. I would like to see some perspective in these studies - we are not all wired the same and that's a good thing.

The descriptives at JDP tell me very little unless I see the actual questions. Maybe one of the MINI owners who took part in this survey could post the questions.

 

Whatever the other issues are, you have to admit the turnsignals are a real PITA. Turn signals have worked the same way on all cars (no, I'm not counting some french abominations)for close to a century -- until the R56. Takes awhile to adjust to them. And it's impossible to get used to them if you drive other cars on a regular basis (like an R53). Might as well put the turn signals on the other side of the steering column like they were on the classic.

(OK, time to take my medicine again )

 

MINI came out with a statement about the survery.

It said over 70% of the people surveyed had bought a convertible and the number one compaint was - cupholders too small.

 

I'm very sure that the E90 BMW had them before the MINI R56

 

I'm one of the people who filled out the JD Power survey and sorry for being honest. I love the way my car drives and handles but the car is poorly engineered and poorly built. Here's a list of defects I had in the first two months that made it into my response to JD Power:

1 Engine loose on mounts (fixed after three months)
2 Whistling on drivers side window (learned to live with it)
3 Whistling on passenger side window (learned to live with it)
4 Malfunctioning hatch release (possibly related to loose hatch trim panel)
5 Internal hatch panel detached when closing trunk (not repaired)
6 Nav system disk (backordered for three months)
7 Voice activation not installed (took two months to fix)
8 Bluetooth not installed (took one month to fix)
9 Sunroof not functional, would not open (replaced, still doesn't work right)
10 Right stereo speaker intermittent (not repaired)
11 Rattle and resonance from dash
12 Rattle from somewhere behind the driver, unable to locate it.

Are any of these acceptable issues? Was I expecting too much in a new car? I brought it in for service ten times in the first five months and was off the road for two weeks in total. Had to ride a bicycle to work a couple of times thanks to quality BMW service that thinks loaners are only offered on a first come first serve basis.

Since filling out the survey the car has failed to start when cold. it left me stranded once due to an improper repair causing a power drain. I had to have it detailed after the sunroof was replaced to remove the greasy black fingerprints on the headliner.

I filled out a JD Power survey with my last car, a 2002 Acura RSX, first year of production for that one too. I listed zero defects, great car but boring to drive compared to the Mini. The Mini has it's charms I know, but build quality and competent engineering are not among them.

When people ask me how I like my car I give them an honest response, if one in ten of these people are considering a purchase their shoddy workmanship on my vehicle likely cost Mini hundreds of thousands of dollars in lost sales. Sorry if it hurts your resale but lying for financial gain is unethical; at least to me, but it seems to be the way BMW does business.

Listening to a service tech tell me BMW will install voice recognition at no charge because they are so nice and care about their customers sent me into rage when I already paid for it. Being told the loose bolts on the engine and suspension are a feature not a fault borders on insane; so what if it makes it easier to work on? If the bolts were properly tightened they wouldn't need to work on it and the car wouldn't be a rolling deathtrap. I guess in Europe it keeps people employed fixing them, but I don't want a car that has some weird socialist agenda, I want a reliable well made car.

Mini and BMW as a whole needs to get their act together. The results of the survey show I am clearly not alone in my experience.

 

Not a problem, of course....although the report is mystifying to those of us whose MINIs were rock solid from day one.