I can agree with the design flaws, On my test drive, 3/4 of the way into it (who am i kidding, all the way into it), I still had trouble working the turn signals. The fan switch (low/med/high) had me baffled as I was trying to turn it down. I don't see how these design elements ever made it out of functionality testing. I'm mechanically inclined too.

There's being unique and then there's being idiotic. Don't make me think!

I based my purchase decision on Consumer Reports, which the Mini had stellar marks and a "recommended best buy" rating.

Jeep, yeah, I see that. My 07 had a bad hub at 25k and power windows that are possessed, cheap interior, flimsy trim, etc.. Quality is sub par, spot on assessment there.

 

I certainly feel for oneway. I hope you will force the dealer and MINI USA to address your issues. But, I do hope we are not confusing design and engineering with quality control. They are not the same thing. As a design professional I know you can have the greatest design and specification and if the supervision at the site is lax the quality will suffer. That is not necessarily the fault of the design, but it may be the fault of the contractor. To all the contractors out there, I know there are poorly constructed documents and for those you should not be blamed. Nor should you be blamed for a professional who does not do their CA work, but the key is always at the site if you have a good design which is not executed properly.

 

yea, I've had mine almost 2 months and 3k miles. Since we are talking about an initial quality survey I feel my experience so far is relevant. Here's my list.

Problems: 0, nada, zilch, none

JD Power didn't ask me.

 

This thread truly exemplifies one of the "great mysteries" about the MINI Cooper in general. Consumer Reports wrote a great article a few years back about Reliability vs. Consumer Satisfaction. MINI Cooper was highlighted as being a vehicle which defies pure logical thinking. Overall reliability was rated as below average (1/2 dark circle at that time) yet Consumer Satisfaction was rated at the highest (red circle with white dot). As a scientist myself, this phenomenon has truly fascinated me over the years.

Considering the fact that my gene pool is primarily a mix of English and German, the MINI Cooper does hold a special place in my heart. That said, the very logical side of my brain cannot often overcome the fact that the MINI does have significant potential to cause me problems both mechanically and emotionally. As it came out, my logical brain has not been entirely wrong.

In 2005, my daughter who turned 16 needed a car. Her favorite car in "the whole wide world" was the Mini Cooper. My daughter Kelsey watched the "Italian Job". That was it, her fascination and love for this car was born. Little did I know that my conservative wife of over 20 years also developed a "love" for this little car. Considering the fact we needed another car for what I thought was for my daughter, I started my search for a MINI. The very first thing I realized in 2005 was that there was no deals on a used MINI. I also wanted a full warranty. MY LOGICAL side was telling me NO!!!! There are NO dealers in my area. Warranty work was going to be a 4 hour trip. Keeping this car long term like I normally like to was going to be risky.

After considerable research on first, the SAFETY of this little vehicle, I decided to buy a new R50 loaded with all packages, IPOD, etc.. I thought most of the "bugs" would be worked out since the car came out in 2002. Considering I wanted an easy to drive automatic for my daughter and wife, I purchased the CVT not knowing anything about the technology except that some belt drives the car. I ORIGINALLY thought to myself, replacing this CVT could not be very expensive considering it only consists of a belt. WRONG assumption on my part as I find out several years later. Replacing a CVT is almost 1/3 of what I paid for the vehicle brand new. (Still crossing my fingers on this one....good reports of CVT's making it past 100K on Mini2)

Shortly after bringing our new 2005 MINI home (within 2 months), I was shocked when I pressed our open door switch 3 times to automatically open the windows and moon roof. The moon roof did not open. The motor had failed and needed replaced. STRIKE ONE!!!! From that point on, I garaged our MINI and purchased a new 2005 Honda Civic Coupe for my daughter to drive to school. I was between the proverbial rock and hard space. My gut instinct told me that I want to sell this car but my heart for my daughter and wife prevented me from doing so. The following Spring (2006) I take my MINI back in for a one year oil change (MAG) (less than 4K). After a 4 hour round trip, I notice oil leaking on our garage floor when I get home. Call MAG, they tell me to bring it back down. I switch dealers to Classic Mini. Drive 3 more hours to get the problem resolved (they simply put a new oil canister on as they said they did not have a seal). (STRIKE 2!!!!. A few months later, we hear a squeal........NEW POWER STEERING FAN!!!! less than 7,000 miles. STRIKE 3!!!!!!..... In American baseball that would be it....but this is not American baseball. STRIKE 4 ALMOST occurred as I just caught our strut towers in time thanks to NAM. One side just started to show a slight deformation at 11,000 miles.

SUMMARY

Because of all the problems I have experienced and read on NAM about CVT's, Mushrooming, etc,, I gave serious thought about selling our 2005 CVT with less than 14,000 miles in order to purchase a new more reliable model year 2008. After reading this thread and looking at the JD Powers results, I will not upgrade. Despite the fact that I have been offered just less than $3000 dollars for what I paid for our 2005 brand new ($24,000), purchasing a new one with similar options ($26,500) and figuring in interest and sales tax, I am much better off either keeping my 2005 or selling altogether. An interesting comparison between the 2005 and 2008 Mini Cooper JD Powers results also influences my decision.






1) Mini Coopers are "Fun" Vehicles to drive
2) Mini Coopers do have a significant amount of quality control issues at least at first.
3) Mini Coopers provide alot of car and engineering for the money.
4) MINI is to BMW what Scion is to Toyota (IMHO) Most people outside of NAM don't have a clue that BMW is involved in MINI. BMW never has to worry about tarnishing it's premiere brand name by less than perfect quality control of it's MINI brand.
5) Mini Coopers have style and individuality that go far beyond what any American or Japanese car manufacture currently produces.
6) People that rely on a single low cost car for transportation should avoid used Minis out of warranty.
7) Mini Cooper warranty is better than average.
8) BMW needs to open it's Mini service needs to current BMW dealers. We have a local BMW dealer but they will not work on Mini's.
9) Mini Service Dealers really seem to make or break how we feel about Mini in general. Some dealers seem to do an excellent job while others put their owners through hell. Service technicians are just like doctors...some are great.....others bury patients at higher than normal rates.
10) Our 2005 Mini Cooper is now my wife's "Stewie" (from Family Guy). Bad as he may be at times he will remain part of the family....Hmmm...does this make me Peter

As a side note: my greatest concern to date is that our 2005 Mini Cooper is going to cause problems between my wife and I in the future. Replacing a $7500 CVT will not be a happy day if and when it occurs. I can take many of the smaller issues like failing power steering pump, window motors, etc.. but.....that transmission replacement would undoubtably hurt especially since I've been well warned through my readings on NAM. Considering our low mileage driving, I don't think I'll have to cross that bridge until 60 to 70,000 miles or five (5) years for us. Extended warranties you say.......they worry me more than the car itself. Oh well,,,I may think of that potential CVT replacement like buying a diamond...that costs $7500. To me, my logical brain tells me that the CVT materials, manufacturing, shipping, and labor replacement was far more worth the cost than what DeBeers trys to market for $7500.

Happy Motoring....and thanks for all the thought provoking comments and insight.

Regards,

MiniDad08 (I have an 05....my daughter graduated this year in 2008)

 

MiniDad, thanks for the post and the great testimonial on how we generally tend to accept the "little stuff" due to the fact that there's something extra special about our MINIs that keeps us smiling and keeps us hanging on as dedicated owners. With your low mileage and your obvious care for your MINI, you will hopefully get many years of trouble-free enjoyment out of your CVT.

I hadn't seen the comparison quality stats with the '05 but I can't say I'm surprised based on my own personal experience (w/manual tranny). Makes me feel fortunate and just a bit smug.

Stayin' alive with the O-five!

 

Ah...what is the problem with the turn signals? I don't recall having to get used to them and I also drive a Dodge Ram truck on a regular basis.

 

Yea, I'm lost on this too. I drove an S10 pick up before my Mini and my wife has a Subaru Outback (until her Clubman comes ) which I drive and I do not recall noticing any issue getting used to the turn signals in my MINI. I LOVE the tap for 3 flash lane change feature.

 

I adjusted to the signals pretty quickly on my test drive. On my current car (non-MINI), I never engage the blinker when changing lanes. I press it down to just before lock and just release when I'm finished. The MINI is just an evolution of what I already do! The only bit that threw me at first was that the MINI blinker doesn't lock into place, but I didn't really struggle with it.

 

You should know there is always resistance to evolution!

 

My 2 cents....

SURVEYS SUCK!!!

 

All I have to say is what-EVER

Obviously, this does not take into consideration design/aesthetic quality.


And, I find it hard to believe that Chevrolets have higher quality than Mini and Subaru for that matter.

 

This survey is really meaningless for those of us that already own a Mini. We love our cars, doesn't change a thing. However in my office two people have talked to me about my new Mini, one put a deposit down on an order, the other was about to. Both of them freaked out over the report, I calmed down the one with the deposit, but the other person will probably buy something else. People will tolerate a mid pack survey result, but when you finish below Land Rover it really scares people.

 

Good for them....they probably weren't that into MINIs anyway. There are lots of folks like that out there...and I'm sure JD Powers knows all about it!! Hope they enjoy thier blah-mobile.

 

BMW probably agrees with you. Forget the 75% of the market that aren't true believers, let them drive some dull car. We will only sell to the real enthusiasts out there and just reduce our volume projections by 75%

 

I've had no problems with my 08 MC R56 manual, knock on wood.

 

Thats another good question as Coopers, even in the first gen, seemed to have fewer problems than their MCS cousins...problems that might show up on a survey anyway. Coolant tanks, windshields, stumble and yo-yo seemed to show up fairly often on first gen MCSs and now in the second gen, excessive turbo heat and cold-start rattle. The DSC module replacement did impact both, though.

 

I read this thread and motoringfile. If what I read is true that 70% of the responders were convertibles, that explains a lot. When I bought my 07 MC, I did a lot of research into Mini reliability. At the time all I had to go on was first gen data. Well for the 06 year, the hardtop mc was a CR recommended with reliability rankings of much better than average, the hardtop MCS was average, the convertible MC below average, and the convertible MCS, much worse than average. This was from a 07 used car guide from consumer reports. As opposed to what I originally thought that CR and JD were opposite, I now see the complimentary data, assuming the 70% number of responders being convertible with the JD survey. The 07 has seemingly in CR's mind gotten better with the MCS now a recommended, and I haven't seen them grade the MC, but if history is true to form it always comes out better in reliability ratings than the MCS. I haven't seen recent 07 and 08 convert data in CR, but they had a long way to go to improve based on the 06 ratings.

Even though the 07 hardtops according to consumer reports are a reliability improvement, some early issues like poorly fitting bonnets, secret compartments that didn't work, and 3/2 downshift transmission squeals didn't help matters any with JD I'm sure.

I'd have to say my 07 MC has been flawless, save a rattling secret compartment, now fixed.

 

First time poster...

Was in my local Borders this weekend when I happened to glance through the current issue of Business Week magazine. One particular article caught my eye, "Stalled in the USA: Europe's Small Cars."

The jist of the article was, the Europeans, having produced small cars in their own countries for years, why haven’t they taken advantage of the burgeoning U.S. small car market? The reasons came down to a strong Euro & pricey labor making it tough for them to show a profit in America. It went on to mention, why they haven’t produced more cars here. Just like the big 3 in Detroit, they also misjudged the U.S. market in setting up their local plants to produce large SUVs.

Where’s the Mini related topic in all this? The last paragraph…

“One European car continues to sell briskly: BMW's Mini had its best sales month ever in May. Yes, the re-imagined classic is made in Oxford, England, and it suffers the same high costs as Volvo and other European makes. But it's a cult car, and consumers seem happy to spend up to $5,000 per vehicle on custom paint and other heavily marked-up extras. Models like the Mini come along only once every decade.”

Since 1996 we’ve owned a Land Rover of some type – Defenders thru Discoveries -- and just like its smaller cousin, have consistently ranked on the wrong end of JD Powers, Consumer Reports etc. When my wife asks, why do we put up with these problems my only response is, “It’s part of the charm.”

PW 2008 MCS on order

 

They could have implemented the concept better had they included a bit more resistance between the momentary blink and "permanent" blink positions. As it is, I have a 50/50 shot at pushing the lever too hard when I'm changing lanes, and then a 50/50 shot at pushing too hard in the other direction to cancel. Call me clumsy, but I don't think I should have to get used to something as basic as a turn signal.

 

To cancel the turn signal you push in the same direction as the signal, not the opposite direction. Works every time.

To say that turn signals have always been the same for 100 years is false. Look at a Model T, no turn signals at all. Look at a car from the 40s turn signals but they don't cancel after a turn. Look at a car from the early 60s, they cancel but no one blink for changing lanes. Look at a car mid to late 70s to around 1995 one blink for changing lanes. About 1995 on some cars have 3 blink feature. Like all things automotive blinkers have evolved.

 

On the flip-side, I thought I was driving a pretty hot car when I bought my 1974 Gremlin. Obviously, the price of the car has little to do with how much of a clue you have.

poyzin

 

Yup, those product quality tests are stupid. I remember when I bought my H2. It was ranked at almost the bottom.

The only thing that was wrong with the H2 when it came out was they had some defective mouldings. It was only a few and they changed it out pretty quick.

So why the bad scores??? Because one of the questions on the questionaire is "how satisfied are you with the gas mileage?"

Well, DUH, no one is going to give a positive answer to that one. So that means EVERY single card will probably have a complaint.

Hardly fair, my H2 is one of the best vehicles I have ever owned. (other than my mini)

JD, Powers are like polls, you can make them say whatever you want. Just phrase the questions the way you want your answers slanted....

Mark

 

JD Power sucks. They have no clue and secondly, they are jealous of not owning the MINI. Plus, about 90% of individuals do not take survey honestly. So I never trust JD Power.

 

Well i cant talk about MINI since i dont have mine yet.But i can talk about Porsche.Porsche enthusiasts matter about quality and they do love their cars as much as your minis.I have a Carrera 993,and every piece of it is high quality.The car itself is 12 years old and have never given me any issue.Aditionally this model was the last hand built.That said new Porsches have more or less the same quality as mine,and they keep up to their standards.The one who was an exeption to it was the 996 which was a total messup.IMO.

As to mini i am happy for what it offers.When i went to the dealer i was impressed by the quality of an 20k car.The exterior feeling was ver nice,and i even liked the bone stock interior.I refuse to believe that vehicles like Ford have better quality than MINI.

 

Yeah, then they turned right around in another survey (or another section of the same one) and found MINI was one of the top cars that people love. Go figure.

There also is an interesting video posted on Motoringfile where the MINI VP explains the survey results.