We just completed the first addition to Stanley. We worked with one of the shops in Mooresville that does a bit of race car work (their head fabricator worked on the Hendrick Nascar team before he retired) to romove the rear seat belts and replace them with four point harnesses so the three kids can all ride with us. As obviously we wanted them as safe as possible (safer than stock was our starting point.) Well we ended up with this.



The belt are mounted to a tubular harness bar that was mounted to brackets that were welded to the shock tower near the original belt mounting point.



Should be much safer than the sholder belts and boosters and now all five of us can enjoy the ride.

 

Thats nuts.

Is this for track or just so you could safely seat 3 in the back?

 

As the middle child of 3, I call a window seat. Please don't make me sit on the "hump"...brings back nightmares...

 

Cool! But yeah, the hump would suck.

Now, when you have a customer lower seat cushion made... then we'll know the whining finally got to you

 

No racing... just so we can fit all three kids safely (who needs a mini van )

Actually when you take out the buckles in the hump, it realy gets rather soft. My daughter so far doesn't seem to mind as she gets to sit up a bit. I was going to look into adding some sort of cushon to flatten the spot out a bit.

They did a nice job as I can still fit the cargo cover which keep the whole thing very neat.

 

Looks great! My three sons have been riding back there with a simular set-up for the past 4 years. No complaits about the hump. I like the harness bar, I'm going to steal it, if that is OK. Where does it mount to the body, where the seat latches, kinda like a rear strut mount?

 

I'm impressed. It actually looks really good. As the oldest of three, and the tallest, I would be claiming whichever seat has the most leg room. That bar looks like it may even make the car stronger in an accident. Enjoy!

 

You could always order the seat back an bottom for the Three Passenger Rear Seat Option form Europe. That woudl make it more comfortable.

Here is a post with links to the part nubmers

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...613-post3.html

 

Bad, bad, bad idea.......

There is no way for the harness's to stay put at the shoulder level. During an accident the belts will simply rotate off of the shoulders. And you have no anti-submarine capabilities with that harness.

Hope you never have to test this out, as the insurance company will definitely have a problem with this mod.

 

Big,

While I agree that I don't ever want to have to test the setup out I am curious about your comments as saftey is obviously my biggest concern..

I'm not sure what you mean by by the belts Rotating off the shoulders. It would seen that as long as they are tight in place and that the connenctionn to the harness bar is roughly in line with their shoulders, the physics of it would force them forward in a mostly uniform manner (or at least with enough unifomity to prevent the belts from twisting (especially given the wider surface area.) And when look at the setup as compaired to the standard belts it would seem that the added belt structure as well as the ability to place that belt on their shoulders would put it at least on par with the stock setup. Again in the context that this is not a racing application but as a Daily Driver.

I argee that these do not add anything in the way of anti-submarine protection but then again neither do the stock seatbelts although I do think that the robustness of the belts would have to be an add over stock.

 

The one thing that I do with my set-up is to run the shoulder belts for the outer positions through the headrests posts. This is simular to the approved front seat 4 point belt set up. The center shoulder belt, you might create a belt location hoop or stop to stop the belts from spredding, simular to what most front seat harness bars have.

Do you run a five point set-up for the center position? Also, don't anti-sub belts actually just help keep the lap belt in the proper location over your hips?

Finally, that harness bar should tighten up the rear end simular to a rear strut brace.

 

The problem with the belts as is is that they will not stay in place in a front end collision. The body will try to "collapse" around the shoulders (the shoulders will be forced back and the trunk will try and go through the belts above the lap belt line). That is why race seats have slots for the belts (one reason anyway) so they will not be forced apart in an accident.

As for the anti-submarine feature, stock 3 point belts simply by there design allow the upper body to rotate around the shoulder belt thus providing some anti-submarine capabilities. Stock belts also have belt pretensioners that go off and tighten the belts dramatically adding to this capability. Without either of these features you are taking a huge gamble with the rear seat passengers safety.

You really shouldn't think of this as an alternative simply because it is a daily driver. It still needs to be a safe alternative equal to or great than the stock system.

As to the post by colin........these belts are way to wide to try and run them thru the headrests. I would bet they would be very uncomfortable, and they still don't address the anti-submarine design of a stock 3 point set-up. The belt thru your legs does help keep the lower belt in place but it still not a great system. This is why most santioning bodies req. a 6 point system. Thus you won't find out what it feels like to come up against that single belt with the family jewels........

 

Big

Thanks for the insights... I was not meaning to imply that one could cut corners just because this is a DD application. I was just making the point that the forces that a racing setup are designed for are going to be different that for a "normal" driver.

What are your thought on adding something to hold the belts together at the chest level (i.e. almost like the buckles that child seats have.) It would seem like it would not have to be incredibly elaborate just something that could keep the belts in place. I was thinking something along the line of an additional strap that would run horizontal to connect the belts together (likely with some heavy duty Velcro or the like.)

The anti-submarine seems harder to address as the seats are simple not designed to do anything. (I would point out, not being argumentative but just as a point of clarification, the rear belts do not have pretensions.) Also, if I understand you, it would seem that the more effective you make the upper portion of the belt system the more you will magnify any submarining issues. Now, as I have shown thus far, I am not afraid to make "adjustments" to stock as I do want this to me as safe as possible. Do you have any suggestions?

 

No problems........

I would guess that you could do something to try and keep the shoulder belts in place, but it might cause injury if the head is forced down and it restricts the movement at the neck. But then again you could just make sure all of the belts are TIGHT, but then this wouldn't be very comfortable and the passengers wouldn't really be able to look around much.

I guess at this point I would suggest that you not use this system, but you can make that decision for yourself. You are the only one that can determine the chances of ever having to see if the belts work or not.

You also might want to think about the insurance repercussions. I know my insurance company will not cover any injuries on cars with modified safety devices. Had a friend disconnect his steering wheel airbag because he put in an aftermarket wheel and then he was in an accident. Coverage was denied on his medical bills because of this.

 

might want to throw in a HANS while your at at it....