R50/53 MINI makes French toast!! (Join the debate!!)
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5th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 726
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>>>"So much for great "quality and design", why on the first place were you stranded on the highway (was it an electrical malfunction???) worst, not been able to open the hood because somebody forgot to place the cable, I will be wondering what "surprise" would you get next, a wheel will be falling off??? so much for great QUALITY and most important EXECUTION. From what anybody can read in this formus there have been may problems in QUALITY and EXECUTION in the MINIS, eve in your's which it seems to be very new, wait and see a few more miles!
>>
>>Just my friend be consistent and fair on your comments and have a clear mind whenever you write something."
Please have a clear mind whenever you READ something..
Apparently you didn't read my post carefully, since you are asking me if I had an electrical malfunction after I CLEARLY stated that my being stranded was due to a simple LOOSE BATTERY CABLE. This is a simple problem which was easily fixed by tightening the screw on the battery terminal connection. As far as the emergency boot release cable, all MINIs after October have one installed.
You mistakenly mention that I could not open the hood, yet this is FALSE. The "boot" refers to the rear trunk hatch, NOT the hood. Since the trunk hatch is electrically operated, it can only be opened using the emergency cable under the seat in the rare event that ALL ELECTRICAL POWER FAILS, such as when the battery is disconnected (as was my case).
The HOOD can ALWAYS be opened, regardless of battery power.
You accuse me of being inconsistent in my posts, yet you have carelessly misread most of what I have written...
Other than that, my MINI has been perfectly reliable after 6 months of ownership. Like any other first-generation car, early-build 2002 MINIs had their share of problems. My MINI is a 2003 model and hasn't had any problems since I got it.
My co-worker's Clio Sport is 3 months old and has already been in the shop twice, with a faulty electrical system and a sunroof that leaks badly.
Apparently Clios are having a lot of problems with water leaks in general and sunroofs leaking and becoming stuck, according to the number of posts on this topic at Clio Message boards.
Another problem with the Clio which has drawn a lot of critizism from owners and the automotive press is the Clio's badly designed seating ergonomics, stating that the placement and position of the driver's seat is uncomfortable and inconvenient. I'm 1.85 m (6'1"
tall, and when I test drove the Clio Sport before I bought my MINI I found the seating position to be terribly uncomfortable, whereas the MINI can accomodate drivers up to 6'6" tall perfectly.
Other topics that draw much critizism in magazines are the Clio Sport's tiny 15-inch wheels and lack of a six-speed transmission, both of which present inconsistencies if it intends to be a true high-performance sport hatch.
Just another reason the MINI is rated higher than the Clio in virtually every automotive publication on the market, and has recieved dozens of awards and critical acclaim...Just another reason why MINI is #2 in CAR Magazine, while Clio Sport is #74.
>>"By the way your pictures of the Mini were at the dealer showroom on brand new cars, you should have posted good quality and showroom photos of a new Clio Sport. I doubt the interiors of the mini hold up very well afer a little use. The Clio interior may not be as much of a designer interior as the MINI's (although the Mini's are not very intelligently or ergonomically laid out, how can you drive real fast on a nice curvy road and at the same time watch the center speedometer???) but the Clio's are much simpler and the layout is way better with the four main instruments right in front of you, where they should be."
>>
As far as the Clio's interior goes, you could post a professional-quality picture of a brand-new Clio Sport and the cheap grey plastic interior would still be hideously dull and unattractive. If you have any other pictures that magically make the interior look better than it is, feel free to post them.
As I said before, the Clio's interior is boring but "adequate" for a low-priced economy hatch, but not even in the same league as a MINI's.
By the way, my friend's Cooper S has 24,000 kms on it and the interior still looks like new.
The Clio is a nice, capable car when compared to other entry-level econo-hatches.
Compared to the Cooper S, it is seriously outclassed.
_________________
2003 DARK SILVER / WHITE MCS.
>>
>>Just my friend be consistent and fair on your comments and have a clear mind whenever you write something."
Please have a clear mind whenever you READ something..
Apparently you didn't read my post carefully, since you are asking me if I had an electrical malfunction after I CLEARLY stated that my being stranded was due to a simple LOOSE BATTERY CABLE. This is a simple problem which was easily fixed by tightening the screw on the battery terminal connection. As far as the emergency boot release cable, all MINIs after October have one installed.
You mistakenly mention that I could not open the hood, yet this is FALSE. The "boot" refers to the rear trunk hatch, NOT the hood. Since the trunk hatch is electrically operated, it can only be opened using the emergency cable under the seat in the rare event that ALL ELECTRICAL POWER FAILS, such as when the battery is disconnected (as was my case).
The HOOD can ALWAYS be opened, regardless of battery power.
You accuse me of being inconsistent in my posts, yet you have carelessly misread most of what I have written...
Other than that, my MINI has been perfectly reliable after 6 months of ownership. Like any other first-generation car, early-build 2002 MINIs had their share of problems. My MINI is a 2003 model and hasn't had any problems since I got it.
My co-worker's Clio Sport is 3 months old and has already been in the shop twice, with a faulty electrical system and a sunroof that leaks badly.
Apparently Clios are having a lot of problems with water leaks in general and sunroofs leaking and becoming stuck, according to the number of posts on this topic at Clio Message boards.
Another problem with the Clio which has drawn a lot of critizism from owners and the automotive press is the Clio's badly designed seating ergonomics, stating that the placement and position of the driver's seat is uncomfortable and inconvenient. I'm 1.85 m (6'1"
tall, and when I test drove the Clio Sport before I bought my MINI I found the seating position to be terribly uncomfortable, whereas the MINI can accomodate drivers up to 6'6" tall perfectly.Other topics that draw much critizism in magazines are the Clio Sport's tiny 15-inch wheels and lack of a six-speed transmission, both of which present inconsistencies if it intends to be a true high-performance sport hatch.
Just another reason the MINI is rated higher than the Clio in virtually every automotive publication on the market, and has recieved dozens of awards and critical acclaim...Just another reason why MINI is #2 in CAR Magazine, while Clio Sport is #74.
>>"By the way your pictures of the Mini were at the dealer showroom on brand new cars, you should have posted good quality and showroom photos of a new Clio Sport. I doubt the interiors of the mini hold up very well afer a little use. The Clio interior may not be as much of a designer interior as the MINI's (although the Mini's are not very intelligently or ergonomically laid out, how can you drive real fast on a nice curvy road and at the same time watch the center speedometer???) but the Clio's are much simpler and the layout is way better with the four main instruments right in front of you, where they should be."
>>
As far as the Clio's interior goes, you could post a professional-quality picture of a brand-new Clio Sport and the cheap grey plastic interior would still be hideously dull and unattractive. If you have any other pictures that magically make the interior look better than it is, feel free to post them.
As I said before, the Clio's interior is boring but "adequate" for a low-priced economy hatch, but not even in the same league as a MINI's.
By the way, my friend's Cooper S has 24,000 kms on it and the interior still looks like new.
The Clio is a nice, capable car when compared to other entry-level econo-hatches.
Compared to the Cooper S, it is seriously outclassed.
_________________
2003 DARK SILVER / WHITE MCS.
4th Gear
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 321
Likes: 0
From: Mexico
This is fun!
I´d say the comparison photos are fair for both cars. The cooper is calvin´s not a picture perfect from a dealer´s ad. The Clio´s are magazine pictures also (outside ones) and ... c´mon admit it, the Clio RS as good as it is a rice rocket, it is still based on an econobox with cheap dash and interior materials (only the seats are better quality - plastic faux carbon fiber insterts can be installed on any car for 20 bucks).
Also check (and this comes from a friend who owns a Clio RS) all the stuff put into the cooper to keep noise outside (even the engine sound). On the Clio you get all kinds of noises and even engine heat inside the car.
Anyway, in my opinion the only comparable thing about the two cars are the 0-60 times and the handling capabilities. If all Cooper owners wanted was a fast light car then everybody in Mexico would go buy an RS instead. Back to my point, Coopers are special cars for special people.
If it makes you feel better rexme, you can go tell everybody that you can very easily beat my normal Cooper on 0-60 accelerations and that I am stupid because I paid over $3000 dls more than your RS for my Cooper.
I´d say the comparison photos are fair for both cars. The cooper is calvin´s not a picture perfect from a dealer´s ad. The Clio´s are magazine pictures also (outside ones) and ... c´mon admit it, the Clio RS as good as it is a rice rocket, it is still based on an econobox with cheap dash and interior materials (only the seats are better quality - plastic faux carbon fiber insterts can be installed on any car for 20 bucks).
Also check (and this comes from a friend who owns a Clio RS) all the stuff put into the cooper to keep noise outside (even the engine sound). On the Clio you get all kinds of noises and even engine heat inside the car.
Anyway, in my opinion the only comparable thing about the two cars are the 0-60 times and the handling capabilities. If all Cooper owners wanted was a fast light car then everybody in Mexico would go buy an RS instead. Back to my point, Coopers are special cars for special people.
If it makes you feel better rexme, you can go tell everybody that you can very easily beat my normal Cooper on 0-60 accelerations and that I am stupid because I paid over $3000 dls more than your RS for my Cooper.
Neutral
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: Monterrey, Mexico
It has been an interesting experience to be part of this debate, I never intended to come this far, however, I believe that being fair is the best position. Therefore, this is my last post, this is your forum and I should and will respect that, enjoy it! Besides discussions about special cars, religion and politics seldom arrive to something really meaningful, since we as human beings are very passionate about our beliefs.
I will give my final comments to the three last members which wrote after my last posting:
To CALVIN 77
#1 You are really venting yourself or really upset from what I wrote, since one of the few options that the Reanult Clio Sport does not have available is a sunroof, how come then IT can be getting stuck or leaking, once again I believe you are making up stories as you did before!!! The only circumstance under which that sunroof getting stuck or leaking may be true would be if your friend has had it installed as aftermarket sunroof!
#2 I myself have a 2003 VW PASSAT GLX V6, however I have ridden in both cars, both of which are funa and great to drive and I can tell you that the Clio rides much better (less harsh) than the MCS. According to the Clio owner, the reason they come to the Mexican market with 15" wheel and 50 profile tires is the quality of our roads, by the way in Europe they have 16" diameter wheels and 195-45 tires, and another clear noticeable issue is the engine noise the Clio is much quieter that the whine from the supercharged MCS, and once you rev up the engine it has a much more of a fine racing engine noise (Renault has been for years competing in Formula 1 racing, Chrysler never).
# 3 and finally for you Calvin 77, it is great that you love your car which by the way according to your pictures has a great color combination and looks very nice, again I have never said it is a bad car. The first point of all this discussion was the aquisition cost differential in Mexico. In England, both cars which perform in a very similar way and for this purpose equiped in basically the same manner as you can get them in Mexico have a list price of 15,000 pounds sterling, I just answered to your comments in racing and winning to a Clio Sport that for almost $10,000 dollars you should get much more than what you get, that in a way, it was not so much of an smart buy to spend that much more money since for a lot less money "only in Mexico not in England" you could get a very similar performing machine, both cars have its pluses and minuses my only reasoning was tha price differential should not be there, since ther is none in probably the most important market WHERE they are available, ENGLAND.
#4 Calvin 77, please chech the J.D. Power findings specially on reliablility and quality they provide, you would be so surprised how much higher the Clio's are above the Mini's.
Anyway, Calvin 77 good luck with your MCS and enjoy it!!!
To MEXMINIME:
#1 Maybe you are color blind, how come the pictures can be fair both cars are showroom clean, you can even see other Minis on the same picture, also the colors of the interiors are different in both pictures "blue and gray" and "tan and gray".
#2 Your Mini One in England is approximately 3,000 pounds sterling even cheaper than the MCS, therfore in Mexico you are overpaying approximately $8,000 dollars more is that SMART???.
#3 The Mini dashboard is nothing to brag about either, it is also made of painted plastic trying to imitate metal, my friend it is not a really very convincing one, BMW should have used the same materials in that big Mini's dashboard as thay use in the 330 Ci, or even the "faux platic carbon fiber inserts" it uses in many of its models, the Mini's is simply a lot cheaper looking.
#4 As an owner of Mini One without the supercharged engine, it would be so embarrasing specially if you live at Mexico City with the high attitude, to see that almost every other car available on the mexican market is faster and a lor cheaper than your expensive Mini.
#5 Please remember that in its Country of origin the Mini is a very inexpensive car, please do not try to turn it into something that it is not, Ok! By the way, how come it is so special that BMW did not wanted to invest any more money to develop or even adapt one of its small engines into the Mini, and instead purchase from Daimler Chrysler (actually the Chrysler branch) the small capacity Chrysler NEON engine (please do yourself a favor, open your Mini's hood alongside a Neon and compare the engines). Finally, wait and see, the MINIS will probably turn into what the retro looking VW Bettle has become after a few years in the market, we will see how special it really is, ovbiously nothing compared to the original MINIS!!!
Have a great day and enjoy you ride!
To TRAILBLAZER:
Just one comment to you, do you know that Renault owns over 40% of NISSAN and has total managment control over it? and that the same guy that turned around Reanult in the past few years is doing the same for NISSAN with great success. Therefore, maybe you will be happier to be able to make smarter purchases if you have have a larger and better variety of cars from where to make a better choice than the few options you have now. Have you ever driven a Opel Astra with the 2.2 liter engine you would be surprised of how nice that car is and you know that it is made by GM of Europe, it is way ahead of the Chevy Cavalier in every sense. Another great example is Ford's of Europe Mondeo, it is a very fine car with great reviews that we are lucky to be able to get down here in Mexico.
Anyway, you also have a great day and enjoy your ride, ok!
Bye to all of you, it has been interesting, to say the least to ba part of this, enjoy your rides and good luck to all of you!
:smile:
I will give my final comments to the three last members which wrote after my last posting:
To CALVIN 77
#1 You are really venting yourself or really upset from what I wrote, since one of the few options that the Reanult Clio Sport does not have available is a sunroof, how come then IT can be getting stuck or leaking, once again I believe you are making up stories as you did before!!! The only circumstance under which that sunroof getting stuck or leaking may be true would be if your friend has had it installed as aftermarket sunroof!
#2 I myself have a 2003 VW PASSAT GLX V6, however I have ridden in both cars, both of which are funa and great to drive and I can tell you that the Clio rides much better (less harsh) than the MCS. According to the Clio owner, the reason they come to the Mexican market with 15" wheel and 50 profile tires is the quality of our roads, by the way in Europe they have 16" diameter wheels and 195-45 tires, and another clear noticeable issue is the engine noise the Clio is much quieter that the whine from the supercharged MCS, and once you rev up the engine it has a much more of a fine racing engine noise (Renault has been for years competing in Formula 1 racing, Chrysler never).
# 3 and finally for you Calvin 77, it is great that you love your car which by the way according to your pictures has a great color combination and looks very nice, again I have never said it is a bad car. The first point of all this discussion was the aquisition cost differential in Mexico. In England, both cars which perform in a very similar way and for this purpose equiped in basically the same manner as you can get them in Mexico have a list price of 15,000 pounds sterling, I just answered to your comments in racing and winning to a Clio Sport that for almost $10,000 dollars you should get much more than what you get, that in a way, it was not so much of an smart buy to spend that much more money since for a lot less money "only in Mexico not in England" you could get a very similar performing machine, both cars have its pluses and minuses my only reasoning was tha price differential should not be there, since ther is none in probably the most important market WHERE they are available, ENGLAND.
#4 Calvin 77, please chech the J.D. Power findings specially on reliablility and quality they provide, you would be so surprised how much higher the Clio's are above the Mini's.
Anyway, Calvin 77 good luck with your MCS and enjoy it!!!
To MEXMINIME:
#1 Maybe you are color blind, how come the pictures can be fair both cars are showroom clean, you can even see other Minis on the same picture, also the colors of the interiors are different in both pictures "blue and gray" and "tan and gray".
#2 Your Mini One in England is approximately 3,000 pounds sterling even cheaper than the MCS, therfore in Mexico you are overpaying approximately $8,000 dollars more is that SMART???.
#3 The Mini dashboard is nothing to brag about either, it is also made of painted plastic trying to imitate metal, my friend it is not a really very convincing one, BMW should have used the same materials in that big Mini's dashboard as thay use in the 330 Ci, or even the "faux platic carbon fiber inserts" it uses in many of its models, the Mini's is simply a lot cheaper looking.
#4 As an owner of Mini One without the supercharged engine, it would be so embarrasing specially if you live at Mexico City with the high attitude, to see that almost every other car available on the mexican market is faster and a lor cheaper than your expensive Mini.
#5 Please remember that in its Country of origin the Mini is a very inexpensive car, please do not try to turn it into something that it is not, Ok! By the way, how come it is so special that BMW did not wanted to invest any more money to develop or even adapt one of its small engines into the Mini, and instead purchase from Daimler Chrysler (actually the Chrysler branch) the small capacity Chrysler NEON engine (please do yourself a favor, open your Mini's hood alongside a Neon and compare the engines). Finally, wait and see, the MINIS will probably turn into what the retro looking VW Bettle has become after a few years in the market, we will see how special it really is, ovbiously nothing compared to the original MINIS!!!
Have a great day and enjoy you ride!
To TRAILBLAZER:
Just one comment to you, do you know that Renault owns over 40% of NISSAN and has total managment control over it? and that the same guy that turned around Reanult in the past few years is doing the same for NISSAN with great success. Therefore, maybe you will be happier to be able to make smarter purchases if you have have a larger and better variety of cars from where to make a better choice than the few options you have now. Have you ever driven a Opel Astra with the 2.2 liter engine you would be surprised of how nice that car is and you know that it is made by GM of Europe, it is way ahead of the Chevy Cavalier in every sense. Another great example is Ford's of Europe Mondeo, it is a very fine car with great reviews that we are lucky to be able to get down here in Mexico.
Anyway, you also have a great day and enjoy your ride, ok!
Bye to all of you, it has been interesting, to say the least to ba part of this, enjoy your rides and good luck to all of you!
:smile:
Thread Starter
|
5th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 726
Likes: 0
>>To CALVIN 77
>>
>>#1 'You are really venting yourself or really upset from what I wrote, since one of the few options that the Reanult Clio Sport does not have available is a sunroof, how come then IT can be getting stuck or leaking, once again I believe you are making up stories as you did before!!! The only circumstance under which that sunroof getting stuck or leaking may be true would be if your friend has had it installed as aftermarket sunroof!"
>>
Again, you are mistaken. My co-worker heads the European division of the art publishing company for which I work. He spends most of his time in the U.K. and bought his Clio Sport in London. European versions of the Clio "sport" line in europe most definitley DO have sunroofs. The 'Sport" line in europe varies greatly from what is offered in Mexico.
Please feel free to visit renault.com.uk, where you can see several pictures of Clio sport versions with factory sunroofs as well as vehicle specifications that list the sunroof as standard equipment.
Although his Clio varies from the versions sold in Mexico, my comment about his leaky sunroof speaks about Clio's general quality (or lack therof).
Indeed, Clio Sport versions in Mexico have no sunroof availabe...just another example of why the Cooper offers much more.
>>>>>"once again I believe you are making up stories as you did before!!!"
I challenge you to give ONE example of a "story I made up" in any previous posts. Your false accusations constitute a weak argument...
>>#2 I myself have a 2003 VW PASSAT GLX V6, however I have ridden in both cars, both of which are funa and great to drive and I can tell you that the Clio rides much better (less harsh) than the MCS. According to the Clio owner, the reason they come to the Mexican market with 15" wheel and 50 profile tires is the quality of our roads"
>>
Yes, the Sport suspension in the Cooper is more firm than the Clio's. That's why a Cooper handles so much better than a Clio.
As for the tiny wheels, "Mexican road quality" seems like a very poor excuse to me. My Cooper S came with high-performance 17-inch wheels and tires, and I bought it in Mexico.
>>#4 Calvin 77, please chech the J.D. Power findings specially on reliablility and quality they provide, you would be so surprised how much higher the Clio's are above the Mini's.
>>
The J.D. Power findings correspond mainly to early build 2002 models, as I said my MINI is a 2003 and problem-free.
>>To MEXMINIME:
>>
>>'#2 Your Mini One in England is approximately 3,000 pounds sterling even cheaper than the MCS, therfore in Mexico you are overpaying approximately $8,000 dollars more is that SMART???.'
>>
How can you call youself a car enthusiast and not know that the MINI "ONE" is not even sold in Mexico?
Mexminime's car is a standard Cooper, not a MINI ONE.
It appears that all of a sudden you have to go, but I challenge you to answer these questions and own up to your mistakes before running away from the forum!
_________________
>>
>>#1 'You are really venting yourself or really upset from what I wrote, since one of the few options that the Reanult Clio Sport does not have available is a sunroof, how come then IT can be getting stuck or leaking, once again I believe you are making up stories as you did before!!! The only circumstance under which that sunroof getting stuck or leaking may be true would be if your friend has had it installed as aftermarket sunroof!"
>>
Again, you are mistaken. My co-worker heads the European division of the art publishing company for which I work. He spends most of his time in the U.K. and bought his Clio Sport in London. European versions of the Clio "sport" line in europe most definitley DO have sunroofs. The 'Sport" line in europe varies greatly from what is offered in Mexico.
Please feel free to visit renault.com.uk, where you can see several pictures of Clio sport versions with factory sunroofs as well as vehicle specifications that list the sunroof as standard equipment.
Although his Clio varies from the versions sold in Mexico, my comment about his leaky sunroof speaks about Clio's general quality (or lack therof).
Indeed, Clio Sport versions in Mexico have no sunroof availabe...just another example of why the Cooper offers much more.
>>>>>"once again I believe you are making up stories as you did before!!!"
I challenge you to give ONE example of a "story I made up" in any previous posts. Your false accusations constitute a weak argument...
>>#2 I myself have a 2003 VW PASSAT GLX V6, however I have ridden in both cars, both of which are funa and great to drive and I can tell you that the Clio rides much better (less harsh) than the MCS. According to the Clio owner, the reason they come to the Mexican market with 15" wheel and 50 profile tires is the quality of our roads"
>>
Yes, the Sport suspension in the Cooper is more firm than the Clio's. That's why a Cooper handles so much better than a Clio.
As for the tiny wheels, "Mexican road quality" seems like a very poor excuse to me. My Cooper S came with high-performance 17-inch wheels and tires, and I bought it in Mexico.
>>#4 Calvin 77, please chech the J.D. Power findings specially on reliablility and quality they provide, you would be so surprised how much higher the Clio's are above the Mini's.
>>
The J.D. Power findings correspond mainly to early build 2002 models, as I said my MINI is a 2003 and problem-free.
>>To MEXMINIME:
>>
>>'#2 Your Mini One in England is approximately 3,000 pounds sterling even cheaper than the MCS, therfore in Mexico you are overpaying approximately $8,000 dollars more is that SMART???.'
>>
How can you call youself a car enthusiast and not know that the MINI "ONE" is not even sold in Mexico?
Mexminime's car is a standard Cooper, not a MINI ONE.
It appears that all of a sudden you have to go, but I challenge you to answer these questions and own up to your mistakes before running away from the forum!
_________________
6th Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,444
Likes: 0
Nice going Calvin! Those Clio interior shots look like an econobox.
And why can't I get a Clio in the US? Once had a Peugeot, but they cut and ran, even though the cars were federalized (something the original Mini could not do, because it was too small).
Regards,
Red
And why can't I get a Clio in the US? Once had a Peugeot, but they cut and ran, even though the cars were federalized (something the original Mini could not do, because it was too small).
Regards,
Red
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