I just beat the pants off a Renault Clio Sport!

Ok, Ok, for those of you who look puzzled, as far as performance goes the Clio Sport is the MCS's closest competitor in the Mexican (and European) car market. It's part of the Hot-Hatch lineup, roughly the same size as the MCS (just a few inches longer) and has a 2.0 liter, 172 H.P. engine. Handling and dynamics are (somewhat) similar to those of the MCS, and 0-60 times are listed at around 7.2 seconds.

There's a lot of rivalry and bad blood between MCS and Clio Sport drivers in Mexico..
You MCO'ers in Europe and Mexico know what I'm talking about...

So anyway I'm driving home after a day at a local amusement park when this Moron in his Clio blasts past me on a crowded city street, cutting me off at a stop light. The light turns green and he peels out in front of me, only to slow down and repeat the scenario over and over again at every light, cutting me off every time and forcing me to slam on my brakes repeatedly.

Not being a fan of street racing, I simply give the guy the finger and motor on my merry way.

Seemingly frustrated at his unanswered attempts to taunt me into a street race, the guy speeds off and I lose sight of him for a while.

A few miles later I come upon the entrance to a private, deserted road on the outskirts of the city, and to my surprise, there's the Clio, emergency blinkers on and staring at me through his rearview, parked and waiting for me!

As I pull up beside him, he gives me a challenging look and peels out down the empty road, upon which I instinctively hit the gas and follow suit in the lane next to his.

It was neck and neck for the first few seconds, but the moment I hit second gear I shot ahead by about half a car length, and began to pull away steadily...
Shifting into third, I was ahead by about one and a half car lengths at which point I stuck my hand out the window and waved goodbye..

Moments later we came to a speed bump, slowed down and ended the race. As he pulled up beside me at the bump, the guy in the Clio stared straight ahead, looking rather constipated while pretending to ignore me.

"Should've bought a MINI!!" I yelled out...

He pretended not to hear me and dove off.
I turned around and motored home with a big grin on my face..

_________________
2003 DARK SILVER / WHITE MCS.

 

You go boy!

 

Clio's are kinda cool (not compared to the MINI, of course ) but that was an awesome story Calvin!

 

This is a Clio Sport, for those of you in the States...





2003 DARK SILVER / WHITE MCS.

 

I'm kind of a young looking guy. Most peg me in my early to mid 20s, but I'm actually 29. It was only three years ago I was having to show ID to get into R rated movies, if it helps. This sets up the fact that I don't look much older than the streetracing kids. Just about every punk with a modified exhaust seems to want to test my MCS at a stop light. I haven't lost one, yet. Sometimes the environment isn't safe to try, so I ruin their fun by not participating. When I do try, I just prove I can take them off the line and level off at my usual cruising speed. Just enough to prove the point. I do love the indignant looks, though.

 

How can I put this. Well, it's a damn good thing that you kicked his ***, especially since he was trying to be an ***. Great job, and a great story.

 

>> This is a Clio Sport, for those of you in the States...<<

Ooo, pretty.
In a Hyundai/Daewoo/Geo kind of way...

 

That was a very cool story and way to go by pasting the Clio on the stright line.

 

You beat him and that thing is fugly to boot.
Way to go!

>> This is a Clio Sport, for those of you in the States...
>>
>>
>>

 

>>You beat him and that thing is fugly to boot.
>>Way to go!

I agree! The rear end of that thing is absolutely hideous. At least he got a chance to see mine, much prettier in my opinion..

 

Being from Mexico, and a car enthusiast, I would like to make some comments to Calvin 77 for everybody to have a clearer picture of his posting. First he paid approximately $10,000 US dollars more for his Cooper S than the list price for a fully equiped Renault Clio Sport (automatic xenon headlamps, auto winshield wipers, ESP, digital A/C, remote radio controls, in dash cd player with under driver seat cd changer, leather/alcantara upholstery, race developed 2 liter 172 HP, variable cams,etc.). Secondly, everybody knows that at high attitudes a blown (either turbo or supercharged) engine is going to have more power than a nature aspirated one, Mexico City is over 5,000 ft above sea level, for him to be able to win it had to be there). Third, the difference at that atitude should be real small and more likely caused by driver skills than anything else. Reliability of these Renaults have been much higher than the MINI's since they have been in the market for many more years ( no stress broken windshields, no rattles, no transmision failures, or engine oil leaks). Every European magazine makes very clear that the Renault Clio Sport is faster than the Cooper S all the way to top speed.

Finally, the April 2003 edition of EVO Magazine (British) has the following performance figures. For the Cooper S: 0 - 60 = 7.7 secs., 0 - 100 21.3 secs, top speed 135 mph. For the Renault Clio Sport: 0 - 60 = 7.1 secs. 0 - 100 18.9 secs, top speed 138. Finally, the Copper S has a 6 speed gearbox and the Clio Sport has a 5 speed gearbox.

 

>> Every European magazine makes very clear that the Renault Clio Sport is faster than the Cooper S all the way to top speed.
>>
Apparently not in this case.

X2

 

The Clio looks like the ford focus!!

 

>>"Being from Mexico, and a car enthusiast, I would like to make some comments to Calvin 77 for everybody to have a clearer picture of his posting. First he paid approximately $10,000 US dollars more for his Cooper S than the list price for a fully equiped Renault Clio Sport "

That's right! And worth every penny!! If you're short $10 grand, get a Clio..If not, do yourself a favor and get a MINI!!

>>>Secondly, everybody knows that at high attitudes a blown (either turbo or supercharged) engine is going to have more power than a nature aspirated one, Mexico City is over 5,000 ft above sea level, for him to be able to win it had to be there). Third, the difference at that atitude should be real small and more likely caused by driver skills than anything else.

I disagree... This is the second Clio I smoke.. A month ago I left a Clio Sport in the dust at a tuner meet in the Santa Fe area... Considering the ease with which I won both times, It's clear to me that the Clio's naturally aspirated engine suffers way too much at high altitude.. A shame considering a great deal of terrain on this planet is above sea level. The MINI's supercharged engine is, in my opinion, a much more versatile choice.

>> >"Every European magazine makes very clear that the Renault Clio Sport is faster than the Cooper S all the way to top speed."

Not when I'm driving! Every European magazine also makes very clear that the Cooper ia a better all-around performer. You being a car enthusiast and all, I'm sure you're aware of the MINI's superiority in handling and slalom speed.

>>"Finally, the April 2003 edition of EVO Magazine (British) has the following performance figures. For the Cooper S: 0 - 60 = 7.7 secs., 0 - 100 21.3 secs, top speed 135 mph. For the Renault Clio Sport: 0 - 60 = 7.1 secs. 0 - 100 18.9 secs, top speed 138. Finally, the Copper S has a 6 speed gearbox and the Clio Sport has a 5 speed gearbox."

Allow me to challenge those figures:

CAR Magazine (British mag, May 2003 issue) performance figures:
Cooper S 0-60: 7.4 secs, top speed: 135 mph.
Clio Sport: 0-60: 7.2 secs, top speed: 131 mph.

Road and Track (Mexico edition, #43)
Cooper S 0-60: 7.4 secs
Clio Sport 0-60: 7.3 secs

Automovil Panamericano Magazine (November 2002)
Cooper S 0-60: 7.4 secs
Clio Sport: 7.2 secs

Oh, and did I mention, in that same issue in CAR Magazine they rate the 100 best cars in the world... The Cooper S ranked at #2 !! But don't worry, the Clio Sport also made the list... coming in at #74 !!

And finally, (and this is subjective, of course), the MINI's design is FAR superior to that of the Clio, which in spite of it's "sport" attire, still looks like an economy hatch, and is far from being a head-turner. I'm also not crazy about the cheap-feeling interior or the lumpy rear end.

Don't get me wrong...a nice little car for its economy pricetag. But you get what you pay for...

_________________
2003 DARK SILVER / WHITE MCS.

 

>>>>"Being from Mexico, and a car enthusiast, I would like to make some comments to Calvin 77 for everybody to have a clearer picture of his posting. First he paid approximately $10,000 US dollars more for his Cooper S than the list price for a fully equiped Renault Clio Sport "
>>
>> That's right! And worth every penny!! If you're short $10 grand, get a Clio..If not, do yourself a favor and get a MINI!!
>>
>>>>>>>>I was not saying that the Copper S was a bad car but for $10,000.00 more, you should get from BMW something much better than a "1.6 liter Chrysler Neon Engine" built in South America and the oldest British Leyland ROVER transmision available, besides real metal trim on the interior would not hurt either instead of the plastic painted one and better reliability. Of course, if daddy pays for it go all the way and get a BMW M3.

>>>>>Secondly, everybody knows that at high attitudes a blown (either turbo or supercharged) engine is going to have more power than a nature aspirated one, Mexico City is over 5,000 ft above sea level, for him to be able to win it had to be there). Third, the difference at that atitude should be real small and more likely caused by driver skills than anything else.
>>
>> I disagree... This is the second Clio I smoke.. A month ago I left a Clio Sport in the dust at a tuner meet in the Santa Fe area... Considering the ease with which I won both times, It's clear to me that the Clio's naturally aspirated engine suffers way too much at high altitude.. A shame considering a great deal of terrain on this planet is above sea level. The MINI's supercharged engine is, in my opinion, a much more versatile choice.

>>>>>>>> Then you just agree with me, you smoked another one at high altitude, at a "tuners reunion", what else have you installed into your Cooper S to make it faster? However, in regards to driving above sea level, most of the driving world wide is done much closer to sea level where the Clio easily beats the MCS than in either Mexico City, or Santa Fe, New Mexico.
Besides it is a shame that BMW does not purchases from Chrysler the 2.4 turbocharged engine from the PT Cruiser which in a NEON SRT-4 will produce 0 - 60 in 5.4 secs or 0 - 100 in 13.5 in a car which costs $19,000 USD, if they could do that, the MINI would be truly amazing, if it proves to be reliable!

>>>> >"Every European magazine makes very clear that the Renault Clio Sport is faster than the Cooper S all the way to top speed."
>>
>> Not when I'm driving! Every European magazine also makes very clear that the Cooper ia a better all-around performer. You being a car enthusiast and all, I'm sure you're aware of the MINI's superiority in handling and slalom speed.

>>>>>>>>> The superiority is so minor that it basically depends on the driver, you may be a great driver and if it is so, well congratulations!!!

>>>>"Finally, the April 2003 edition of EVO Magazine (British) has the following performance figures. For the Cooper S: 0 - 60 = 7.7 secs., 0 - 100 21.3 secs, top speed 135 mph. For the Renault Clio Sport: 0 - 60 = 7.1 secs. 0 - 100 18.9 secs, top speed 138. Finally, the Copper S has a 6 speed gearbox and the Clio Sport has a 5 speed gearbox."
>>
>> Allow me to challenge those figures:
>>
>> CAR Magazine (British mag, May 2003 issue) performance figures:
>> Cooper S 0-60: 7.4 secs, top speed: 135 mph.
>> Clio Sport: 0-60: 7.2 secs, top speed: 131 mph.
>>

>>>>>>>>>> Allow me to make a correction to your figures from CAR magazine (standard cars)

>>>>>>>>>>Cooper S 0 - 60: 7.4 secs, TOP SPEED 125 MPH
>>>>>>>>>>Clio Sport 0 - 60: 7.2 secs, TOP SPEED 138 MPH


>> Road and Track (Mexico edition, #43)
>> Cooper S 0-60: 7.4 secs
>> Clio Sport 0-60: 7.3 secs
>>
>> Automovil Panamericano Magazine (November 2002)
>> Cooper S 0-60: 7.4 secs
>> Clio Sport: 7.2 secs
>>
>> Oh, and did I mention, in that same issue in CAR Magazine they rate the 100 best cars in the world... The Cooper S ranked at #2 !! But don't worry, the Clio Sport also made the list... coming in at #74 !!
>>

>>>>>>>>From what I can see, in every figure you posted the Clio was faster to 60 and since you did not published the 0 - 100 times, I must assume the Clio was much faster that the MCS.

>>>>>>>>>Anyway, this is my opinion being just as an enthusiast, please do not get upset, but for the price you pay for the Cooper S, at least in Mexico (previously you mentioned your needed to sell it because of moving to the USA and to have spend over $28,000.00 USD in it, for that amount of money you should get in the USA much more than that, especially a reliable automobile, maybe a an entry level 350Z in the US, or BMW 3 series, or a Merc CLK.

>> And finally, (and this is subjective, of course), the MINI's design is FAR superior to that of the Clio, which in spite of it's "sport" attire, still looks like an economy hatch, and is far from being a head-turner. I'm also not crazy about the cheap-feeling interior or the lumpy rear end.
>>
>> Don't get me wrong...a nice little car for its economy pricetag. But you get what you pay for...

 

>>Being from Mexico, and a car enthusiast, I would like to make some comments to Calvin 77 for everybody to have a clearer picture of his posting. First he paid approximately $10,000 US dollars more for his Cooper S than the list price for a fully equiped Renault Clio Sport (automatic xenon headlamps, auto winshield wipers, ESP, digital A/C, remote radio controls, in dash cd player with under driver seat cd changer, leather/alcantara upholstery, race developed 2 liter 172 HP, variable cams,etc.). Secondly, everybody knows that at high attitudes a blown (either turbo or supercharged) engine is going to have more power than a nature aspirated one, Mexico City is over 5,000 ft above sea level, for him to be able to win it had to be there). Third, the difference at that atitude should be real small and more likely caused by driver skills than anything else. Reliability of these Renaults have been much higher than the MINI's since they have been in the market for many more years ( no stress broken windshields, no rattles, no transmision failures, or engine oil leaks). Every European magazine makes very clear that the Renault Clio Sport is faster than the Cooper S all the way to top speed.
>>
>>Finally, the April 2003 edition of EVO Magazine (British) has the following performance figures. For the Cooper S: 0 - 60 = 7.7 secs., 0 - 100 21.3 secs, top speed 135 mph. For the Renault Clio Sport: 0 - 60 = 7.1 secs. 0 - 100 18.9 secs, top speed 138. Finally, the Copper S has a 6 speed gearbox and the Clio Sport has a 5 speed gearbox.
>>
>>


It's still fugly.

 

looking at his # of posts and his fanatical defense of the Clio...I think that was the guy you smoked at the stoplight

 

Rexme, go back to the CLIO message boards and Whine there!!!!!!!!!!! :???:

 

>>>>>>>>>> Allow me to make a correction to your figures from CAR magazine (standard cars)

>>>>>>>>>>Cooper S 0 - 60: 7.4 secs, TOP SPEED 125 MPH
>>>>>>>>>>Clio Sport 0 - 60: 7.2 secs, TOP SPEED 138 MPH


Correction to your correction...
perhaps the magazine is wrong...

135 is the limited speed. I've taken mine that fast.

 

Rexme, was that by any chance YOUR Clio I smoked last Saturday afternoon?

Allow me to retort to your latest post:

>>>>>>>>>>"I was not saying that the Copper S was a bad car but for $10,000.00 more, you should get from BMW something much better than a "1.6 liter Chrysler Neon Engine" built in South America and the oldest British Leyland ROVER transmision available, besides real metal trim on the interior would not hurt either instead of the plastic painted one and better reliability. Of course, if daddy pays for it go all the way and get a BMW M3."
>>

First of all, the list price for a fully loaded Cooper S in Mexico is $28,400 Dollars, while the list price for a "similarly" equipped Clio Sport is $19,200 Dollars. The $9,200 difference buys you a FAR SUPERIOR all around performer, especially when it comes to handling and dynamics, not to mention a classy car which Valet parkers will park at the front door next to the Porsches and Jags, not a cheap econo-hatch like the Clio that ends up hidden in the corner of the underground lot.
While the Cooper's interior "metal" is in fact plastic, at least a lot of thought and design went into producing a car with attention to design detail, whereas the Clio's cheap looking and flimsy plastic interior draws much critizism for being dull and old-fashioned.
As far as your critizism of the Cooper S's much lauded and critically acclaimed Getrad six-speed transmission, the Clio should be so lucky!
Yes, the Cooper's engine is a joint design venture between DaimlerChrysler and BMW, but the Clio's engine is still a Renault...not exactly a BMW.
As as side note, the last time "Daddy" bought me a car was in 1993..

>>>>>>>>>> "Then you just agree with me, you smoked another one at high altitude, at a "tuners reunion", what else have you installed into your Cooper S to make it faster? However, in regards to driving above sea level, most of the driving world wide is done much closer to sea level where the Clio easily beats the MCS than in either Mexico City, or Santa Fe, New Mexico."

Not only is my MCS absolutely stock, but also has the much heavier 17-inch wheels. The Clio Sport I beat was slightly tuned, with an intake upgrade and modified suspension. I still beat him easily, by about 2 car lengths at the end of the run in fourth gear.

>>"Besides it is a shame that BMW does not purchases from Chrysler the 2.4 turbocharged engine from the PT Cruiser which in a NEON SRT-4 will produce 0 - 60 in 5.4 secs or 0 - 100 in 13.5 in a car which costs $19,000 USD, if they could do that, the MINI would be truly amazing, if it proves to be reliable!"
>>

What's really a shame is that an otherwise capable little econo-hatch like the Clio is so darn ugly. Renault should have spent a little more time in developing a better design for the Clio, which will never turn heads or draw attention like a MINI. Call me shallow, but I love it when people on the street stop me to tell me how cool my car is. That's never happened to a co-worker of mine in his Clio Sport (who, by the way, intends to sell his car and get a Cooper S after he drove mine and loved it)
As far as reliability goes, I've had my MCS for six months and haven't had a single problem with it yet, whereas my Co-worker's Clio has been in the shop twice so far for a faulty electrical system.


>>>>>>>>>>>&gt ; "Allow me to make a correction to your figures from CAR magazine (standard cars)
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Co oper S 0 - 60: 7.4 secs, TOP SPEED 125 MPH
>>>>>>>>>>>>Cl io Sport 0 - 60: 7.2 secs, TOP SPEED 138 MPH"

You are ABSOLUTELY WRONG, my man... I have the May edition of CAR Magazine IN MY HAND RIGHT NOW, and the performance figures for the Cooper S are listed on pages 156 and 192, and the figures for the Clio Sport are listed on page 169. CHECK THEM AGAIN..

The top speed of the Cooper S is listed at 135 on both pages, and I challenge you to open up that magazine again and substantiate the veracity of your claims. I have no idea where you got the figures that you're quoting , but it was most definitely NOT from the May edition of CAR Magazine as you claim.
The figures I listed in my previous post were absolutely correct, I invite you to check them again.

>>>>>>>>>>"F rom what I can see, in every figure you posted the Clio was faster to 60 and since you did not published the 0 - 100 times, I must assume the Clio was much faster that the MCS."

I did not list the 0-100 times quite simply because they are not published in these magazines. Feel free to open up any of these publications and prove it for yourself. While the Clio may be 0.1-0.2 seconds faster to 60 mph at sea level than the Cooper S, this does not necessarily translate to faster 0-100 or quarter mile times. In my personal on-road experience, my Cooper S beats a Clio Sport easily at these speeds in a straight line, and downright SHAMES the Clio Sport in the turns.
I also might add that the Cooper S's tourqe is rated at 155 lb/ft, while the Clio's is rated at 148 lb/ft, which translates into beter response and engine elasticity for the Cooper S.

>>>>>>>>>>>" Anyway, this is my opinion being just as an enthusiast, please do not get upset, but for the price you pay for the Cooper S, at least in Mexico (previously you mentioned your needed to sell it because of moving to the USA and to have spend over $28,000.00 USD in it, for that amount of money you should get in the USA much more than that, especially a reliable automobile, maybe a an entry level 350Z in the US, or BMW 3 series, or a Merc CLK."

As I said before, my MCS has been perfectly reliable and I have no interest in trading it in for any other car. While I could easily trade it in for a 350Z and pay the difference, I have driven the 350Z and can tell you that I found the Cooper S to be much more satisfying to drive. (By the way, I also test-drove the Clio Sport before I bought my MINI and was not impressed).
Also, the price of a well-equipped Cooper S in the U.S. is around $22,000, compared to a base entry-level 350Z at around $29,000, making the Cooper S a performance bargain.
When I sell my MCS and move to the States in a couple months, I'll have enough money from the sale of my Cooper S in Mexico to replace it with another brand-new one in the U.S.and still have money left over for some mods or accessories.

>>>>>>>>>> "That is your subjective opinion, in the UK both cars cost the same aproximately 15,000 pounds, don't you think that it should be a much better value or a much "smarter" purchase if like in Mexico you can get the Clio for $10,000 USD less. If the prices were the same, I will be agreeing with you more on the Cooper S, of course if you have so much money why not to buy something much better!!!!"

Road and Track magazine and Car and Driver magazine listed the Cooper S as the FASTEST CAR EVER TESTED in the Slalom course, beating the previous king, a Porsche 911 GT2.
So why didn't I get something "better"?... Because it doesn't get much better than #1, my friend!!


_________________
2003 DARK SILVER / WHITE MCS.

 

Not to start an all-out Clio-vs-MINI war, but here's a quick "Quality and Design" comparison between the two cars:
A few pictures of the Clio Sport's interior as compared with the MINI, comments and opinions welcome.

Clio Sport, fully loaded in grey leather (only interior option):






MINI, in Lapis Blue and Cordoba Beige leather (2 of many interior options):





Better layout, materials, more interior color options, etc..
The MINI's superiority in quality of execution and design is unquestionable, and worth every penny more than the dull and unimaginative Clio's cheap grey plastic interior.
Not insulting the Clio, simply asserting that the premium, up-market MINI is in a totally different class than the Clio Sport, which is a fine player in the econo-hatch category.
Implying that the Clio Sport offers the same that a MINI does for less money is simply absurd.

To each his own, though..


_________________
2003 DARK SILVER / WHITE MCS.

 

Way to go Calvin!

Going back to my point on a previous post I made: There are many things to a car than just an engine. Here in Mexico everybody thinks 2 liter engines are better than smaller displacement engines (like our 1.6 liter). Still, I constantly read in magazines how sentras, civics and other cars beat the "super" 2 liter Jettas, Golfs and Beetles... Still you go and ask people and they all say the 2 liter Jetta is fast...

Even though the Mini S has less HP it practically has the same performance as the Renault Clio in the magazine tests, so at Mexico City altitude, the Cooper S owns it. Most important point: The driver makes a BIG difference, regardless of power.

Minis (all) are special cars for special people. Clios are just subcompacts with peppy engines. Every weekend I get at least 5 or 6 comments (good ones) about my car, how many do clio owners get?

 

eww.. the interior on the Clio is so.. <YAWN> boring!

 

I do not intend to produce a war between Copper S owners and Clio Sport Owners, however, I am a fair person and for people that is reading this "discussion" you seem to be very inconsistent with your own comments. Which should tell everybody that reads this forum what kind of fairness to expect from your comments.

A recent example, as of May 4, 2002 in your answer to Mini-madman on the issue of the "ripcord ripoff" you mentioned that:

"I remember awhile back a situation where a member here was stranded on the side of the road with some sort of electrical malfunction, and then found out that he didn't have the ripcord to maunally open the hatch.

Yup, that was me, stranded on a highway in the Mexican desert because of a loose battery cable.
As of yet, I have only recieved puzzled looks from dealers when I mention a missing release cable that they didn't even know should be there in the first place.
I've pretty much given up on trying to get it retrofitted.
I agree with you. it should be MINI USA's responsibility to install a safety component that should be there in the first place, and we shouldn't have to pay a penny for their screw-up".

Also, in your last follow up on the Clio debate you said "As I said before, my MCS has been perfectly reliable and I have no interest in trading it in for any other car."

It is ok that you do not want to trade it for any other car but, has it been TOTALLY reliable???

On the your next posting with the "pictures" you talk about ...."Better layout, materials, more interior color options, etc.. The MINI's superiority in quality of execution and design is unquestionable, and worth every penny more than the dull and unimaginative Clio's cheap grey plastic interior."

So much for great "quality and design", why on the first place were you stranded on the highway (was it an electrical malfunction???) worst, not been able to open the hood because somebody forgot to place the cable, I will be wondering what "surprise" would you get next, a wheel will be falling off??? so much for great QUALITY and most important EXECUTION. From what anybody can read in this formus there have been may problems in QUALITY and EXECUTION in the MINIS, eve in your's which it seems to be very new, wait and see a few more miles!

Just my friend be consistent and fair on your comments and have a clear mind whenever you write something.

By the way your pictures of the Mini were at the dealer showroom on brand new cars, you should have posted good quality and showroom photos of a new Clio Sport. I doubt the interiors of the mini hold up very well afer a little use. The Clio interior may not be as much of a designer interior as the MINI's (although the Mini's are not very intelligently or ergonomically laid out, how can you drive real fast on a nice curvy road and at the same time watch the center speedometer???) but the Clio's are much simpler and the layout is way better with the four main instruments right in front of you, where they should be.

Anyway, I am anxious to read your response, and see what is next, have a great day!!!

 

For all this talk about the cars there's a couple things I want to mention. First, the MCS is prettier by far and, having collected the numerous magazine reviews, the overall package has made the MCS THE car to own in the category according to the automotive press, including being tops to EVO (great magazine, BTW), one of the pubs that our Clio advocate has quoted. Second, I think the key to this debate is the original race where Calvin blew off the Clio. I'm going to take the radical position that it just may be Calvin that is a better driver than the Clio had.