Anyone catch this on Flickr? Maybe it's already been talked about...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandidg...7594468885635/

Looks like quite an amazing wreck. I'd love to know the story behind it.

 

Was that a roll over? I see a huge 2X4 gone through the windshield.....

 

Technically it's a 1x6 from the fence, but... ahh, let's not be ****. Looks scary tho, amazing that both passenger and driver lived. Injured, sure, but... looking at that - who wouldn't be?

 

Yes the car/passengers did amazingly well all things considered.

 

Does anyone else think there seem to be a high number of MINI related accidents? In my previous experiences on the BMW 3 and Z4 message boards, accidents didn't seem to happen quite so often. Maybe it's just because a higher percentage of MINI owners are online and post about these things. It just seem strange. I've always wondered why the auto insurance for my MCSC is higher than for my Z4 3.0i.

 

Well I think people on this board make a point to show accidents in which the car saved a driver/passengers butt. Not to show the wrecked cars like some kind of entertainment. But as far as insurance goes its usually due to the records of the vehicle. In the case of the MINI, the more on the road the more there is a chance for a problem like other cars.

 

Because, I think, there is also a tendency for some MINI drivers to drive the cars at the very limit (Abuse speed, lack of proper driving skill, plain wreckless driving habits, etc.

Given the MINI's excellent roadholding dynamics, some people feel compelled to push the envolope a little farther and a littler farther until the laws of physics takes over.

I would think also this has to do with the owner demographics and the fact that the MINI is a sporty car. (Regardless of what Chows may say)

 

I might add that driving a MINI doesn't make you invincible, so be careful out there.

 

Judging from the nature of this forum I would say that most do not hear the often repeated advice that your first mod needs to be the driver. The MINI is a car that allows a driver to push right up to the edge of its ability before it cuts loose, where most other cars will have tire roll, body roll, tires screching....etc that imparts a feeling of loss of control well before the car is ready to let go

Result, alot of MINI's wind up off road becuase they are overdriven on the streets

 

FWIW, sounds about right to me!

 

But the car I'm comparing insurance rates to is a Z4 3.0i - which handles just as well as a MINI (better in some cases, not as good in others), has tons more power, is more expensive, and invites people it push it as hard as a MINI. It's hard to reach the limits of a Z4. I agree that some people buy Z4s and never really push them or enjoy their sporty aspects, but the same is definitely true for MINIs.

Maybe it's because the MINI is a 4 passenger car while the Z4 is just 2 - less possible people to insure.

I also have a feeling that it's because the average age of MINI drivers is most likely lower than the average age of a Z4 owner. (I was 30 when I got my Z4, for reference, so I'm not really old!). And young drivers have less experience and are more likely to get into accidents. No offense to anyone! So maybe that increases the overall insurance rate for the car.

 

Agreed RonMichael the insurance rates don't make sense to most of us. Me included, I traded my 05 MCSa for a 07 Lexus IS250 AWD and my insurance dropped $25/month due to some added safety in the car. But the car costs about $10k more then the MINI.

 

We don't know if MINIs indeed are involved in more accidents.

(Anyone in the insurance industry know for sure?)

 

Ditto.

I've seen a few photos/stories about crashed Minis on NAM, but I certainly didn't get the impression that there are any greater than average levels of accidents involving Minis. I also agree that NAM'ers aren't gawkers... but merely interested in "testimonials" of those unfortunate enough to experience some of the Mini's safety components.

 

No offense to anyone, but a car like a Z-4 generally attracts a more mature owner, many of whom are driving it not for the sport performance but for the sporty image. Thus, the insurance company data suggests that it is less of a risk and they adjust their rates accordingly.

 

[quote=C4;1309115]Because, I think, there is also a tendency for some MINI drivers to drive the cars at the very limit (Abuse speed, lack of proper driving skill, plain wreckless driving habits, etc.

Given the MINI's excellent roadholding dynamics, some people feel compelled to push the envolope a little farther and a littler farther until the laws of physics takes over.
quote]

This makes me wonder if the general public just takes driving less seriously sometimes. If one pushes any car's limits, i always thought they would be smart enough to not include a passenger for one, but take the car to a track instead of commercial streets. Just an friendly observation

 

wow...looks like the side/curtain airbags went off, but neither the driver nor passenger airbags deployed ? So if it was a roll-over, I wonder how the peice of wood got lodged in there

 

Front bags are only going to deploy in a front-end hit.

Looks to me like the car rolled and flipped ONTO a fence post or two !

Utterly brutal looking crash, shows the high survivability of the MINI though !

 

But also remember that insurance rates also depend on the region and overall driver's record. Here in Miami, motorists pay 2-3 times the national average for auto insurance, because South Florida is notorious for bad drivers and a higher than normal rate of accidents. Right now I pay for my '05 MCS, full coverage with State Farm ($250 deductible, 50/100/100 coverage) around $1,500 per year and that is very CHEAP for Miami. Our MINIs pay same or less insurance as more "sensible" cars like a Toyota Camry or Honda Accord both of which are plagued with high rates of theft, specially older models. I have found that insuring a MINI is fairly competitive versus others brands of vehicles. VW's tend to be more expensive than MINIs to insure, at least here in Banana Republic Land.

If I were to move out of South Florida I am sure my auto insurance policies would be cut in half almost automatically.

Also, insurance rates are also dependant upon cost of spare parts to repair a vehicle and the overall costs associated with medical claims among others.

While the MINI is not strictly a "Teenage" car (Actually the MINI is owned by a vast range of different ages) it doesn't have an absolute "Mature" customer base as say as BMW. BMW owners tend to be more conscious about their driving habits, but I am sure there are dare devils and speed freaks there as well.

Regardless of what machine you happen to drive, you have to be careful. Good handling cars can impart a false sense of security (Same phenomena with SUV drivers) and therefore run the risk of letting down on your common sense guards. If people want to experience speed and handling at the limit, they are better served by taking some driving instruction courses and taking it to the closed track.

 

I recently read an article on risk assessment. There was a long term study on risk and how people respond to it. They found that additional safety features led to more dangerous behavior. One example was a person riding a bike in innercity traffic. If the person didn't have a helmet, they rode with more caution since it was considered dangerous to ride without a helmet. However, if they were wearing a helmet, they took more risks while riding the same route. This behavior completely negated the additional safety of wearing the helmet so that the risk assessment was the same whether they wore a helmet or not. This behavior was noted in all aspects of life. We now have safer vehicles, so human nature is to respond with more dangerous behavior since we have more safety features in the cars.

Also, as we all have read here on NAM, there are more and more MINIs on the roads every day. More MINIs=more accidents involving MINIs.

 

Mishka, great points there. It all goes back to the "False sense of security" afforded by better handling and generally safer cars. When ABS braking systems began to become widely available in most vehicles during the 1990's, people began to have more accidents as well. There was a generally misunderstanding on the functioning and purpose of ABS braking systems and most folks believed that ABS was a safety net for stupidity behind the wheel (The car would stop instantly on command without regard for speed, road conditions and laws of physics) and not another "active" layer of safety to prevent wheel lockup during emergency braking and better vehicle control.

In this country we are in dare need of driving education because as it is, it is too damn easy for almost anyone to obtain a driver's license.

 

I just went online w/my insurer & got a quote to add a Z4 3.0i to my policy (for fun). The Z4 rate is higher than the rate for my MCSC

 

Those are good points, C4 and Mishka, and there are frequent news stories highlighting these supposed "truths", in which statistically it has been very hard to isolate specific safety feature advances' contributions to improvements in traffic safety. But I believe there's a significant hidden agenda. Insurance companies have a vested financial interest in promoting more restrictive laws (speed limits, etc.)

The fact is, American highways are safer than they've ever been. The national death rate (the number of fatalities per passenger mile) is now less than 2.0 per hundred million miles. I can't find the trend chart quickly, but if I recall, the rate was approximatley 10 times that 20-30 years ago. Usually I see the attribution to this improvement given to laws- drunk driving, speed limits, etc. and there's some truth, especially on the attention to drunk driving. But all those safety enhancements such as airbags, crumple zones, etc. are undoubtedly the major reason why cars are safer and people survive crashes such as the one pictured that a few years ago would have resulted in at least one death.

And as someone else said in another post, my MINI helps me AVOID accidents in the first place, a fact that is almost always overlooked.

 

I'm sure there are plenty of Z4 horror stories. I also think many are accepting as a given that MINI's have an inordinately or at least higher crash rate because of this percieved "false sense of security" Some are, for sure but I expect the Subie or the Cobalt or for God's sake, the Beetle boards have their fair share of "trophy" wrecks. Wrecks happen and I'm not one to over-analyze it.