On whiteroofradio #55 last night, the guys mentioned that someone should start boycotting dealers who are marking up their cars. I say, we, the good people of NAM, begin this right here and now. Mods, can we make this a sticky, possibly changing the name to Boycott these dealers?

Please post those who are marking up. Hopefully, MINI buyers looking here will know ahead of time and can easily shop at dealers who do not mark-up the prices of new MINIs.

(Steps off soapbox)

 

I think this is a very noble cause, but one that I don't see having much success IMHO. This sounds like when people complaint about the high cost of gas and call out for a massive 1 day boycott so people don't fill up their cars.

Unfortunately, while the MINI continues to be a high demand/low supply commodity in certain markets (namely the West Coast) and there are people willing to shell out $5K on top of MSRP, dealers in those areas have ZERO motivation to let go of the cash cow. If you don't want to pay a markup, the next customer will, simple as that.

Many folks have purchased their cars from strict MSRP out-of-state dealers and this has not deterred the obsecene markups that still exist in west coast markets.

 

Also, remember that there are people that want a MINI NOW or simply dislike the idea of having to travel outside of their home state to get one. For these "gotta have" crowd, a markup is often justified to ripe the rewards of immediate ownership.

 

That these markups still exist what FOUR years after the MINI is introduced in America is one of many factors why our cars are holding their value so outstandingly, indeed beyond industry expectations. While it's a business decision by these dealers I personally don't support, I'm not about to hop on some boycott bandwagon for the sake of rejecting dealers who mark up inventory. Been there, done that.

Good luck 2 U in your collective "call to arms," but I'm just not interested. Jimbo

 

I'm guessing most of the dealers still left selling above MSRP are on the west coast. I don't think it would be fair for someone like me, over 1000 miles away and not in the market for a MINI, to boycott a dealer I have never had contact with. If someone walks into one of these dealers then it becomes their decision whether or not to purchase from them and possibly go elsewhere.

I would also think that if someone had a dealer like this locally. They will still go there shopping to check out the MINI before their purchase. Letting the MA know in advance that a mark up may make them purchase from another dealer. Those are the people that will get the dealers to stop. Not those of us that have no personal contact with the dealer.

It's not a bad idea and it may help with the growth of the MINI community. I'm sure there are some people near dealers like this who would love to own a MINI yet aren't capable or don't want to venture far away to purchase a MINI at MSRP.

 

Better yet, considering the volume that those dealers do compared to the membership numbers at any of the online sites as well as how many people come here after they've already purchased their car, and I don't think you'll be able to gather enough people to have an effect.

Not a bad idea, but the market forces are against you. If significant numbers of perspective MINI owners visited sites like this before purchasing their MINI, you might have a fighting chance...

FWIW I've bought both of our MINIs from dealers that did not charge any mark up...

 

I think this plan has major flaws, I never heard of WRR until after I had the MINI and wasn't really sure what a forum was before I had a MINI though I knew of and got info out of NAM. Also I'd rather go to a daler I trust with service, than go somewhere else simply because they charge a mark-up, making buyers aware of the fact there those without markup is something I'm all for though.

 

I know that Subaru took away some STi's from dealerships when they marked up the cars when they first came out. Pretty awesome move from a car company

I could imagine the mark-ups going away quickly if Mini witheld S models from a dealership that was marking up.

 

Do people really want to punish U.S. dealers for exercising their right to set prices in a free market?

Leave it up to the individual buyer to make his/her best deal on a MINI at the dealership of their choice. If they unknowingly buy from a dealer that marks up prices, that's the price they pay for not doing their homework.

 

Guess what, gang... In a free enterprise system, dealers of merchandise have every right to put a mark-up on the products they sell. That's how they make money, pay the rent, pay their employees, and stay in business. This is balanced, however, by the power of the consumer to shop around, know the actual price points involved, and negotiate what they are willing or able to pay. The good news is, that system applies to few industries as well as it does to car dealerships.

Buying anything with a price tag above two figures should be an exercise in diligence and research. For something with a price tag in the five-figure realm, that research should take a month at minimum. But for many people, it seems the depths of thier interest only extends to thirty seconds' worth of, "Oh, it's so cute! I want a yellow one!" :impatient

For an intelligent, industrious consumer, pricing information has never been more readily available than it is now, over the very internet some are using to complain about mark-ups. If you want the mark-up to go away, do your homework, and cut the best deal you can. If you can't reach a satisfactory price, go to a different sales person, or better yet, another dealer. That is how mark-ups are ultimately controlled.

But the idea that some "authority" or "boycott" should dictate prices from on high is less about doing anything "right" than it is making the chore of shopping less arduous for the lazy or inept, who can't be bothered to do their own work.

 

True, but when you shop and build a MINI at MINIUSA.com, there is an expectation of price. As was the case with ordering my MCS, I had one dealer try to get $500 more out of me than the listed price. For what? Justify why there is a $500 markup other than to pay their bills??? Once this dealer found out I was going to order from another dealer at the fair market price as listed on the MINUSA, then they decided the $500 could be eliminated. Too late. But had I bit on the deal with them they would have been happy to take the extra $500. That to me is dishonest and bad business practice. And double the loss for the first dealer as we have since ordered a second MINI from the honest dealer.

A customer/client is NOT a customer/client unless they come back a second time. The best, and worse, form of advertising is word of mouth. Something a business cannot buy in the advertising world.

I have this saying when I eat at a restaurant with bad food or service, "Yeah I been there twice, my first and last time." This thought can be applied to just about any other business including a car dealership.

 

When you build a MINI online and you click on the "MSRP as Configured:*" line, a disclaimer pops up and states, among other things, that "Prices vary by MINI dealership." MINI USA recognizes that dealers can set prices as they see fit.

Where's the dishonesty in charging a premium for a product that's in high demand?

 

Personally I think that a car company has every right to pull merchandise from a dealers lot if they are marking up. Take into consideration that if you mark up a vehicle, and it stops a customer from buying because they can't find one that isn't marked up (the new Honda Civic Si for example...$3000 is the lowest markup I found at any of the dealerships in Milwaukee)...that directly reflects on a car company, not only in sales, but also in the attitude they take towards their customers.

Car dealerships make plenty of money by ripping off customers through maintenance and other add ons. I think it's only fair to the consumer that dealerships can' tack on some number that they think the market will hold, just because.

I guess with your logic, it's just fine that gas prices went through the roof and oil companies made windfall profits the same year. I mean, the market will pay it so they should be able to charge whatever they want...right?

 

Another point I forgot to mention...many Mini dealerhsips have a state-wide monopoly. In WI for example there is 1 dealership. For most buyers that leaves them with one choice. The next closest dealership is hours away if you live in southern WI, but if you live in middle or upper WI that 1 dealership is already hours away.

 

If MINI USA wants to impose pricing or allotment limits on its dealers, they are certainly free to do so.

When you look at profit margins, you will find that oil companies are nowhere near the most profitable. In the third quarter of 2005, oil companies made about 8.2 cents of "windfall" profit per dollar of sales. Compare that to 18 cents per dollar for banks and 18.5 cents per dollar for pharmaceutical companies. Where's the outcry against Big Banking or Big Drug?

 

...and dont forget the word "Suggested" in MSRP. When I worked for GM Corvettes were routinely marked up by dealers, esp. the Z06 with its limited production and high demand. Yet all dealers saw the markup as a starting point for negotiations; rarely were the full markup prices (as high as $10K) acheived in the sale, so if it drifted down to MSRP all was OK. It's just a reality of the car biz, esp. with high demand/low production cars like the MCS, and the fact that car dealers dont make money on new cars--parts, service, and used are the dealership cash cows.

Markups are more prevalent in CA because it is a more "trend" driven market, where impulse buyers seem more common. But four years after introduction is very unusual for a production car. As far as I know, only Long Beach and East Bay sell at MSRP (are there more?) but have long waits. And at Niello it's a double-whammy: mandatory accessory paks (with parts marked up nearly 300%) and $1-3K markups on top of MSRP. Now that's marking up, folks!

Hey if nothing else the "call to arms" has generated an unusually interesting thread! JB

PS in a couple weeks my job will take me by East Bay MINI is Pleasanton, I'll do a little research....

 

the local dealer is Mini of Moutain View. They've had a $2500 dollar mark up on the S since they opened, and it's still there now. Most that buy there want to buy at the local dealer, don't know about NAM, and have money. Coopers had a $1k mark up when I bought in 2002, but I don't know if it's there now.

But it's nutty here. So they get what they can. Same thing when I bought my 01 MDX. Local Acura dealers have only seen me for warranty work. Local Mini dealer has only seen me for free maintenace, recall work, and a couple parts. Oh, and to replace a lost key. Now that's a real rip off!

Matt

 

But so do CO, UT, AZ, OK, OR, and NM--1 dealership each--and they sell at MSRP. Your point?

 

honor the Mini Warranty, and do the free maintenance!

Matt

 

yeah but will they provide a loaner for the occasional "carpetbagger" who purchases out-of-state at an MSRP dealer? I think not....

Ya know when I first walked into Schomp Denver in early 2004 to explore the possibility about buying an MCS, I knew within 10 minutes of when I arrived how much it would cost (MSRP, no dealer prep charges.) I accepted this because I understood the supply/demand factor, and talk about stress-free automotive shopping!

(Schomp had a $145,000 MSRP'd Z8 sitting in the BMW end, and fended off repeated offers from CA auto brokers approaching $250,000. He sold it for MSRP to some local--with no prep charges tagged on. Even the hybrids on the Honda end don't get marked up.) Jimbo

 

I didn't always get a loaner. Two out of three times I did (get this, once I got a Chevy Suburban!)

Matt

 

Wrong. As mentioned above, the term MSRP stands for Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price. That doesn't mean every dealer is somehow duty-bound to abide by it. It's only a general guideline as to what the price may be.


Well, you've got one. Paying their bills is a perfectly legitimate expense.

So is paying their employees, benefits for those employees, their property and liability insuance, their property taxes, their costs to buy, transport, store, clean, and maintain the cars for you to come look at, upkeep on the building, people to clean it, electricity, water, and on and on...

I have a better idea: Why don't you try finding a justification for why a privately-owned business should somehow be told what it can and cannot charge for a product?


Congratulations. That's exactly how bargaining works. You have just proven my earlier point.

Meanwhile, though you've attempted to use the term "fair market" in a sentence, you're wrong about that too. Fair market value is simply an estimate of what a product may be worth on the open market, to a wide sampling of potential consumers. It is NOT a dictatorial standard, nor is it "set" by MINIUSA, or anyone else.

This only shows that you are either clueless as to how businesses are run, and how a free market works, or worse, you'd simply prefer a system of government control over private business.

There is nothing "dishonest" about charging a mark-up. You are neither obliged nor required to pay it - indeed, as you say, you didn't, nor would you have had to, had you been more patient and savvy in your negotiations.


Once again, your reasoning, such as it is, is simplistic and ill-concieved. Do you think the very restaurants you love so much don't charge you a mark-up on the food you eat? Of course they do! It's a business! That's how businesses make money, and stay open.

Unless the first dealership was incredibly rude to you in a personal way, your comparison doesn't even begin to hold water.

For that matter, you also pay mark-ups on your CDs, MP3 players, clothes, groceries, furniture, utilities, and everything else you buy. Do you want to impose your imaginary "fair" price on all of them as well?

Wait, never mind. You probably do.


That is irrelevant, and yet another misuse of a term. As long as there is a competing dealer somewhere, there's no "monopoly." The market the two dealers are in may be regional, as opposed to local, but it is not exclusive, and again, you have a choice:

If you want a MINI badly enough at a certain price, you may have to travel to get it. Or, you can weigh the costs of travelling to get it, versus paying what you can locally, mark-up or not.

For my last car, I looked at cars in several states, and went to see some of them, at distances as much as 700 miles one-way. Why? Because I was very particular about what kind of car I wanted, its features, condition, and yes, price.


But again, this is all part of the "homework" that has been mentioned before, which seems to be lost on the modern American "Give it to me NOW!!!" consumer.

Buying a car - even a MINI - is first and foremost a business decision. You have to get out of the mode of thinking as if you're walking through a mall and just picking something up off the shelf. You're in the business of being a consumer, and hopefully, a smart one.

If you want a good deal, you have to research, work, negotiate, and get it for yourself. You cannot rely on someone to simply stroll up to you, and feed it to you through a straw.

DW

 

that Minis fit through straws!

Matt

 

It has to be a really big straw.

 

I'm lovin this thread, man! Ay Carumba!