I am very close to buying the MINI. I have been cross shopping with the 06 Miata as well, as I have a 97 and really really like it. However, my biggest complaint with the Miata is that it is my only car and it is difficult to live with on days when the top is up, I have to drive the freeway, or haul a little bit of stuff. While the new Miata is much improved in rattles and comfort, it still is a Miata at heart, which means its still cramped especially when top up, its still pretty loud on the freeway, and it still doesn't hold much.

Which is what brought me to the MINI. Drives a lot like the Miata, and while it is a blast and quieter, it may have a bit stiffer suspension than the Miata. Don't know that I mind it, but maybe it will gnaw into me after awhile too. I'm also a little worried about MINI quality/reliability, though not enough to not buy the car.

Then I got to thinking about this new GTI. Never thought about it before. Always liked VW's but been scared by their quality/reliability. However, this GTI is made in Germany, not Mexico, where so many of the poor VW's have come from in the past. It seems to get high marks and while I understand it is much heavier and won't handle like the MINI, I think I'm going to give it a shot to win me over.

Have any here experienced the new GTI? Being MINI biased, how did you find it compared?

 

The GTI is so big... it looks like a miniature minivan.

 

MotoringFile Review :: The MKV Golf GTI DSG

 

FWIW, i came from a 95 turbo miata. In my mind, the MINI is the car you are looking for. I was up against many of the issues you describe, lack of space, etc. I could not be happier with my MINI, i really do not miss my miata at all.

FWIW #2: Before we got my MCS, we replaced my wife's 98 cabrio with a 05 MCSa. The cabrio just always plagued us with little problems - many electrical. I would be hard pressed to buy another VW, ever.

hope that helps!

 

i am seriously considering a GTI or at least wait to get the new R36 to replcae my 05 MCS

 

Why the rush to replace the mini?

 

I had an 02 Passat which was built in Germany, it had no less than 19 trips to the dealer before I happily dumped it and bought an 06 S[IMG]images/smilies/impatient.gif[/IMG]

 

Everyone bags on VW quality, and to some extent, in some models, it is deserved. I must have extremely good luck with them as in a total combined 8 years of ownership of various GTI and Golf models I have never had a "stranded by the side of the road" type of issue. About the only VW I would classify as problematic was my '99.5 GTI GLX (replaced 2 power window regulators and a MAF, all under warranty in 4.5 years and 55K miles) and that impression was mostly left by the half wit service department I was dealing with at the time.

Yes, I had a rattle or two. Yes the alternators didn't produce enough current to support my high beams and the power windows at the same time leaving them to dim slightly when I hit the window switch. But everything I experienced in 4 cars (3 assembled in Wolfsburg and one in Slovakia) was really either an annoyance or a regular maintenance issue.

I know there are many who have had genuine nightmares with their VWs (multiple coilpack replacements, continued MAF issues, perpetually broken window regulators,etc.) but know none of them personally.

I think one of the major things hurting VW in the reliability polls is the completely hit or miss (mostly miss) nature of their service departments.

Anyways, just one lucky Dub lover's opinion formed by wholy anecdotal evidence... Not trying to say that nobody has reliability issues with VWs.


Scuderia: According to a recent Motor Trend, it's going to be an R32 again with the drivetrain remaining almost identical except for the FSI version of the 3.2 VR6, good for another 10 or 12 hp & lb-ft. I think they had it slated for '09 which means we may see it in the states in 2010-11. Things could definitely change in the next few years though.... Would be reallly nice if they came strong with a 3.6 FSI and treated the faithful to some aluminum body panel love to get the car down to 3000 lbs or less.

 

I struggled with this issue too until I finally saw the new GTI at the dealer. You can tell they're trying, but the car is completely devoid of any kind of soul. It's just so efficient, it's boring. Even the plaid cloth gives you a feeling it was chosen more to get people to buy the leather than to look interesting.

I give VW props for producing such a well-engineered vehicle, but they forgot that fun doesn't come from numbers alone.

 

well for starters.. my previous car (pre this september) was a 02 gti vr6. i F'king loved it!!! there was no other car in town that could come close to out running that in a road race.. let alone a drag. I beat the pants off and old nova (the owner thought he was the ****..he wasnt) i would still have that car if it werent for me totalling it. (see pics in my gallery) i am a very agressive driver and know the differences between the vr6 and the mini. they come close. i am very passionate about this subject and this could go on for some time.. but ill try to keep it short. Yes, the GTI is heavier.. but its not a bad heavier. i had the gti at 140 and the mini at 137 (ran out of road) so the speed is there for both of them.. however, the gti got there quicker (not much, but still) now... at those speeds i felt at home in the veedub.. in the mini.. eh.. not so much. it does handle great at those speeds but the thing is is that its so f'ing light you feel that its going to take off. curves at low speed (<70) are great and right up to par if not better than the GTI but anything over that the gti takes the cake.. by far. the weight is a good thing. you also mentioned something about boring.. i dont know about that.. mine was loaded with everything.. and the dash display was a beautiful blue color.. got alot of comments on it.. i loved it. the mini is definately better looking.. no question about it.. none at all. it lookis great. so, you are opting for the new gti.. dont do it. the old vr6 had more power than the new p.o.s's. i dont like them at all, i think they are ugly.. the r32 is a fantastic car, i tested it (didnt have the $$ at the time.. ) if you want to drop 30Gs on a pimped out cooper or a r32.. go for the 32.. you wont regret it. please all my cooper fans.. dont get pissed off.. i love my cooper.. but have any of you really driven a gti vr6 or the R32.. ?? what do you think?

 

I am very passionate about this comparison as well. Currently own a MK.III '98 GTi VR6. Great, great car. Looks nice with impeccable reliability. In 108K miles I have replaced a clutch and the brakes. That's pretty much it. Always starts and gets me where I have to go with out question or delay. (had an '88 Scirroco as well, and that had similar reliability) The GTi is getting a little old and tired now so I am looking for a new car.

Checked out the MK.V GTi the other day with leather, sunroof and the DSG tranny. Fit and finish are spot on.

-Looks are very subjective so I won't comment too much on this issue, other than to say I think the GTi looks great.

-Interior. Seats and wheel are real nice - the steering wheel tilts and telescopes so finding a good driving position is easy. Very important to me.

-DSG is perfect going up, real smooth and fast. Going down is pretty good. The computer blips the throttle automatically, but shifts are marginally less smooth and marginally slower than when going up - or so my rear end tells me. Paddles are stuck to the steering wheel, though, so as you turn the wheel, the paddles move out of position. I guess you use the floor selector in that case. DSG is certainly impressive and a lot of fun, but I think after a while I would miss the control of the manual 6 speed.

-Engine is superlative. So smooth and minimal lag with lots of torque. I do love that engine and responds very well to modification -if you are of the sort that enjoys that sort of thing. I had the car over 80 without even realizing it. Really, thought I was doing 60.

-Brakes are nice with good feel. Unfortunately my test drive was mostly highway with a couple of on/off ramps, so I never really had a great chance to test them (or the handling) out.

-Handling seemed good, but as I mentioned prior, I never had a good opportunity to check this. The GTi felt very composed over the bumps and lumps of the road, though, and it Would probably be more comfortable on long trips.

My take on it, the Mini is a more pure sports car with less compromise and comfort and convenience than the GTi. Turn in and adjustability seem to be better in the Mini. The GTi in comparison almost strike me as more of a GT car, relatively speaking. It is more plush and more comfortable, but the extra 300-400 pounds is noticeable.

-Finally, cost. This is the big issue. A new GTi with leather, sunroof, dual climate control, 18 inch wheels and satellite radio is $26K. Option out a Mini in a similar fashion (including a bump up to similar horsepower - AKA JCW engine package) and all of a sudden you are over $30 K. The VW also has a some very intriguing financing numbers and a cash loyalty bonus for any currently owned VW. In the Mini's favor, the first three years of service are free (although that is probably built into the base price), while the VW service is pay as you go. Mini was a clear winner until this point, now things are a little fuzzy. Both are great cars, you can't go wrong with either one.

Regarding the R32, speculation continues as to whether we will get the 3.2l or 3.6l. I have heard strong and seemingly credible rumors backing each config. One person said that the 3.6l required a different version of the DSG to handle the extra torque, a version that is in fact larger than the current MKV GTi body can handle without serious compromise or redesign. Hence we will get a the 3.2l. Another rumor suggests that this is all bogus and that the 3.6l is all but confirmed. Both sources claim that the car, in whatever spec it comes with, will be out within the next 12-18 months. Take this with the caveat that no matter how credible the posts seem, it is still an internet rumor. Check www.vwvortex.com for more info. See the MK.V Golf/Jetta and the Mk.V R32 thread, specifically.

And to foster200, I respectfully disagree with your conclusion that the GTi's better stability at high speed has to do with its extra weight. I would suggest that it has more to do with suspension geometry, steering design, tires and wheels and aerodynamics. Collin Chapman and Gordon Murray can't both be wrong.

 

VW=16
MINI=7
poor Nova only once






Sorry could not resist

 

The guys at White Roof Radio love the new VW Automatic/Manual transmission... They even prefer it to the MCSa tranny... But only that part of the car!

Remember that Volks Waggon means Peoples' Car.

 

Tough choice. Personally I think the MSC is slightly more hardcore and communicative, but less practical.

If you're used to a Miata, I think you'll prefer the directness of a MCS, but there is no question the new GTI is more comfortable, not to mention, even your wife or grandma can drive the DSG

 

I've been wrestling with the same exact problem. I have a '06 MCS Checkmate Space Blue on order, and I've been attracted to the GTI. Currently I have a '05 audi S4. Crazy car, but expensive, and I am looking to save some cash. I was looking for a car that handles well, is reasonably fast, and fun to drive. Both the Mini and the GTI fit those concerns. As far as details here is the breakdown for what is important to me:

Mini CooperS:

Good:
-Fast
-Decent gas mileage (I come from a 15mpg S4)
-Cool design exterior and interior
-Unique
-LSD
-No option packages. Can order everything alacarte if you want
-WILL hold it's value over the GTI. I tend to sell cars often so this is important to me. The only thing that could stop the high resale is the new version blowing the current mini out of the water. With that said, I still think this mini will hold it's value over the VW since vw has such a bad rep
-More of a race car. I have just started autocrossing, and the Mini is a proven competitor
-HK Stereo
-Blue paint color choices
-Included maintenence

Bad:
-Seats aren't the most comfortable
-Plastic pieces will rattle
-Car is too small to have adults in the back seat for an extended period of time
-No spare tire/only runflats


GTI

Good:

-Looks good, fresh and new design
-Compliant ride. Stiff handling, but easy to throw into corners.
-Fast car.. faster than the mini. The 2.0t FSI is an engineering masterpiece. I love the engine
-Seats (leather) perfect. Fits like a glove
-Awesome steering wheel
-Easier to live with on a daily basis (more space better seats)
-Able to get one NOW without a waiting list or stealer markup


Bad:

-Like a previous poster said, the car seems to lack a little soul
-Suspension setup not aggresive enough to compete in autocross (or so people speculate), the mini cooper S is a proven competitor. High center of gravity(the gti has that 4x4 us ride height), and definitely less steering feedback.
-No LSD LOTS of inside wheel spin when whipping into a corner
-No included maintenence
-Bad resale value (most likely due to VWs past quality issues) Since I have a track record of selling cars this matters to me.
-one of the worst factory installed radios I've ever heard (I'm not kidding, it's worse than the old stock WRX stereo and that says quite a bit)


With all that said, if there was a R32 version of the new VW my decision may be different. Since I've gotten into autocross as a hobby I wanted to make sure I had a daily driver that could be competitive once I learned how to drive better. The R32 would surely tear ***** up, but that's not here, and I want a car soon. I also need to save money thus the sale of the S4 (15 mpg and a large payment) I've always liked VWs, but I think the Mini Cooper S will be better for me, and if I somehow can afford a house it's a car I can keep for many years as a weekend/race car.

 

The MINI just LOOKS better too. :-)

 

I reached many of the same conclusions after my recent GTI test drive. The GTI is indeed more of a GT-type car than the MINI, which isn't neccessarily a bad thing. Here's my little "magazine review" of the GTI - just to add to the pile of opinions.

It was an interesting test drive, as I was almost able to jump directly from my '05 MINI Cooper S into the new GTI (I was handed the GTI keys pretty quickly upon arrival at the dealer).

In short, the GTI is a more "mature" feeling car versus the MINI. I drove one with both option packages (basically loaded) but without the 18" wheels. Configured this way, the GTI is, dare I say, plush. The GTI's controls are very nice, with a light clutch and surprisingly smooth gear lever (I drove the six-speed manual). The VW gearshift was much smoother than the MINI's Getrag 'box. The VW's steering wheel was also quite nice, with deep well-positioned thumb notches. Since the wheel is the main input for a car, it's a big deal for me. I actually wound up importing an R32 wheel and having it installed in my VW for far too much money when I had my '02 GTI.

Fit & finish are what you'd expect from VW(very nice). No idea about the long-term rattle picture, but it seems well screwed together. I was a bit surprised that the stereo sounded as bad as it did - a disappointment given the quality of the interior fitments. Wind/road noise was subdued and the GTI felt very solid overall. The seats were very supportive and not at all difficult to operate; one magazine review I read noted problems figuring out the seat operation.

Since my old GTI had doors that quickly sounded like some old rust bucket (ugly groan/creak upon opening/closing), I took a close look at the door hinge mechanism on the new GTI. The hinge on the '06 looks the same as on my '02 -- I'll wager it'll have the same problem (at least on the two-door due to the doors' weight) in time. No amount of lithium grease solved my creaky hinge problem. Not a real big deal, but annoying nevertheless. You heard it here first...

Driving dynamics were a little softer and less immediate than my bone-stock '05 Cooper S. Considering the new GTI is almost two feet longer and considerably heavier, I'd say that VW has done a nice job in this regard. I'm sure the 18" wheels with summer rubber would make the car at least feel more nimble. The ride is well-controlled without feeling "floaty", a common criticism of the mark IV GTI's suspension. If I bought the GTI, I'd probably get the OEM Euro springs installed to drop the ride height by 15mm yet still keep the stock suspension geometry. Overall, the drive is sporty with a broad torque curve, but won't blow you away with stump-pulling power.

I'd seriously consider a GTI if I were in the market for a new car. The "stripper" at around $22K seems pretty well appointed and would provide the same driving experience as the $26K example I drove. This being said, though, if you're looking for a small, quick, "chuckable" car, the Cooper S still has the edge on the GTI (although the MINI styling may be to over-the-top compared to the new GTI).

Hope this info helps!

 

While I don't largely disagree with your conclusion, IMO, one bit of your logic is flawed. To get similar HP (actually the JCW is 10% more) isn't the correct comparison. According to Edmunds the GTI is 3300#s!!! Over 600# more than an MCS. Thats an HP to weight of 16.5. A stock MCS has an HP to weight ratio of 15.9. for less money. A JCW yields 12.3. Thats in a completely different league and if the R36 is in at 260HP and the same weight (doubtful given the AWD) would have roughly the same W/HP. And all that weight represents a serious compromise in other critical performance areas.

The GTI is an interesting car in light of its drivetrain and DSC, but to me, I don't find them directly comparable as their important qualities seem to be pointed in different directions. With the MINI, economical performance is the central goal and trumps other design concerns. With the GTI, it would seems that sportiness is more of an add on to the base Golf; it tries to layer more content to the become a more potent all arounder, decent power, economy, sport and luxury in a practical package. The MINI is far more singleminded than the GTI, that elevates its appeal for some, diminishes it for others. It's nice to have choice.

 

Excellengt point. You are correct of course, that HP/LB ratio is far more telling than mere hp numbers and plays a huge roll in virtually all of a cars dynamic behavior. My oversite.

Interesting figure that 3,300lbs at Edmunds. VW just came out with its "official" weight for the GTi and they placed it at 3,100lbs.

I agree with this. Succinct and clear explanation of the heart of the comparo.


Edit PS R36 could go as high as 280hp-300hp. IF it happens.

 

I've had many Volkswagens (5 Rabbit GTIs ,3 Rabbits, 2 Cabriolets, 1 Mk2 Golf, 1 Mk3 GTI VR6, 1 Mk4 Golf GLS) and like the Mini Cooper much better. The Mk5 GTI looks like a 1994 Honda Civic Si. It seems to be a nice car, though. My 2002 Golf lost more than 50% of its value in only 2 years, so I probably would never buy another VW. Also, to clarify, you may want to research your statement that Volkswagens made in Mexico (or Brazil for that matter) have a worse build quality than German built cars.

 

This months Road and Track has an interesting side by side comparison ov the new GTI, the JCW MCS and the new Civic Si... definitly an article worth checking out

 

I posted a B&W scan here http://www.wraight.com/MINI/Comparo.pdf

 

I think you must live in a VERY small town with slow cars.

 

The new VW Trebuchet commercial is simply fabulous, it really is - it's the same agency that MINI used to use and you can tell by the attitude. The commercial and the favorable reviews of the new porker are enough for me to give the new GTI a test drive... sadly the indifferent service (got my first 'lot job' when I asked for my brake fluid change) and questionable durability (taffy-covered clutch disc?) that I expereinced with my 2000 Bug TDI will keep me a happy MINI customer for some time.

 

I was in this boat recently, too. I had considered a MINI for quite a while, but was content with my current car. All of the media hoopla that the MkV GTI being as good as the MkII (my first car was an '86 GTI) drew me out for a test drive.

The GTI is a fantastic car. But, as has been mentioned in above posts, it is a very refined car. The interior is very quiet, you can barely hear the engine or exhaust. I was really disappointed, as I was looking forward to hearing turbo swoosh. The car handles well, but the steering has very little feeling.

I drove both the 6MT and the DSG. As cool as the DSG is, I can't give up rowing the box. And I find the GTI lacking in that category. What some people consider a smooth gearbox, I consider sloppy. I'll use my favorite superlative from C&D regarding transmissions, "The first-to-second shift feels like a long distance phone call to Paris."

I can't say good enough things about the suspension, though. I ran hard through the gears up a decreasing radius ascending cloverleaf ramp, and I was doing 80 just before hitting the tangent. The car felt like it still had another 10-15 mph in it before the tires would begin to protest.

I wasn't really even in the market to buy a car, but for comparison's sake, I test drove an S a couple of days later. Not even putting the car through half of what I did to the GTI, I put a deposit down on a Dark Silver S when I got back from the drive. I can't really put into words what it was, but the MINI had a more involved feel. The engine/exhaust sounds, the steering feedback, the immediate turn-in, everything just clicked. All that I've ever wanted in a car (with perhaps the exception of big, big torque) was in the MINI. And I was hooked on the first drive.

I really do wish I could get plaid seats in the MINI, though.