My apologies if I'm covering well trod ground. I've been searching many forums and have yet to find good definitive answers, so I'm posting.

My 05 MCS with a scant 5k mi on it is taking the winter off and that's given me lots of time to consider mods. Since I'm so pleased with it's performance, my first ideas were mostly cosmetic. I really want to install four driving lights across the upper grill to hearken back to that old school rally look, but then I noticed rumblings on the forums about that particular mod possibly voiding the warranty. Accent on 'possibly', no one seems to know for sure. This got me wondering what if any performance mods can be carried out and not jeopardize the warranty, and if it's really true that the four driving light set-up will do so.

Thanks.

 

Somebody, I'm sure, will come and quote the Magnsum law or whatever its called meaning that, for example, they can't deny warranty work if the part didn't effect what broke. For example, you add four driving lights and the suspension breaks, no
problem.


Read here http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthrea...ant%2A+spot%2A

BMW will void the warranty, or so they say

 

^^ Moss-Magnuson Act.

Essentially, you won't get a difinitive answer because a) all service departments are going to be different in their desire to attempt to screw you over and b) it's situation dependant.

If you like, you can rest assured knowing that its the dealers responsibility to show that your X modification actually caused Y malfunction. From there it's just a matter of how much time and money you'd care to spend in defense of principle.

 

Well said . It really depends on the situation , item in question and service dept " mood "as it were. Some of the items that have been " safe "so far generally speaking are cat back exhausts, some intakes and 15% pulley. Of course there are exceptions to all of these but for the most part they have not caused any problems. The pulley has been one of the most popular mods and personally I have not heard of anyone having a issue with warrenty work because of it. The 19% is another story however. Hope this helps a bit.

John

 

Do a search here and you will find several threads on warranty work denied because of a 15% pulley. (not many but a few) Each thread, I believe, had a different ending depending upon how hard the originator pushed BMW or how hard BMW pushed back ... I think the bottom line being its all dealer dependent and if your willing to go to court against BMW (good luck)

 

I know a lot of folks here scream "Moss-Magnuson" aloud....

But the truth is that the minute you decide to make a major mod to your MINI whether is the pulley, head, intake, etc., you are taking a gamble with your warranty coverage. Most dealers will void your warranty if they see an aftermaket pulley in your engine.

It is up to you.

 

That is fine and dandy in theory, but in the real world, the manufacturer and its dealers pretty much have the power to void your warranty, Magnuson act or not. If you read your warranty booklet, BMW reserves the right to automatically void your warranty if you make modifications to the car.

 

What data do you have to back that up? Or is it just local experience. I ask because the three MINI dealers in our locality really dont care, and two of them, in fact, will sell you full MINIMania stage (whatever) packages. Take a look at MDSbrains blown headgasket thread and the least Mod friendly of them didn't care (provided the boost was within JCW norms). They are very mod friendly.

That said, I have also heard it said that if you put on a new head, that changes everything.

 

Yeah... but they actually can't. And if you had the resources enough to get you to litigation against a giant corporation, and said corporation could NOT prove that your mod caused the problem, you would win. No company's warranty statement supercedes US law.

 

I have heard of stories about my dealer voiding the vehicle's warranty due to the presence of an aftermarket pulley. I can find out more details and their stand on aftermarket mods.

 

Interesting info I will check into that. From what I have heard the 15% is so close to the authorized 14.3% JCW that the dealer has backed off in trying to deny the warrenty. I have only personally heard of one 19% claim being succesfully denied by a dealer.

John

 

There are several threads here, as I said in a post above, about warranty work being denied. But they could be just ancedotal stories.

The real question is what percentage of MINI dealers ARE mod friendly (within reason) vice those who simply will not touch a modded car (as yours).

I just don't know the numbers nationwide and that is why I ask ... I just know about our three local dealers and I assume each dealer is different

 

You said it first... "If you had resources enough" you could litigate forever against BMW and get it your way. But the reality is that most folks can't afford costly and lengthly legal proceedings to bring the manufacturer to his knees.

Don't get me wrong, I see what you are saying but in the end when you make the decision to modify the car, you are taking a big risk against keeping or losing your warranty.

I value my warranty coverage and therefore I decided long ago against modding my MINIs in anyway or shape possible. Some folks prefer to mod and play against the odds. Others simply don't care about the warranty and mod to their hearts content.

Besides, if an aftermarket part is suspect of causing a problem, why not extended your legal liability reach to the vendor that made the part and the installer?

 

Chows, that would be an interesting set of data indeed. Probably you have read about "mod friendly" MINI dealers here in NAM that sell and install aftermarket components. I think what would be relevant to get acquinted with is exactly what kind of policy BMW/MINI enforces when it comes to dealers that promote and sell aftermarket mods, vs those who do not? Do they care? Is this pretty much left up to each independent franchise?

Like I said, This week I will try to find out a more in depth view from the other side of the aisle when it comes to modded MINIs and the processing of their warranty claims.

At any rate, I don't think there is an uniform policy at the dealer network level.

 

We've run into a few dealers who are very restrictive, but for the most part, the dealers have been very reasonable. If it doesn't effect anything, the mod is OK. The issue becomes murky when there is a question on what the problem is - ie is it a throttle body or a bad engine wiring harness. Most dealers will swap out the TB and then check it again - if it is the TB, they won't cover it, if it's the wiring harness they will (not that we've had a bunch of TB failures - it's just a good example).

Here's another take on the poster's original concern - Webb Motorsports offers an in-house warranty that protects you even if the dealer won't. That gives you a bit of piece of mind. Another bit is our success rate (and many others in the aftermarket arena as well - Helix, MINI-Madness, Mini Mania, Alta, etc.) as we have over 2800 customers with nary a complaint. I have personally installed 719 supercharger pulleys without a glitch - and Brian, one of our other techs, has installed around 20 with no issues.

Bottom line, do what you are comfortable with. If you stay up at night because you are worried that something will happen within your warranty period, and you've just "ruined" it by modding the car, just wait. If you are comfortable with the supplier and installer, go for it - I can tell you from experience with these cars that there is little to be concerned over.

Hope that helps!
Randy

 

It will be interesting to see what you come up with. I can tell you that the dealer where I bought from was very willing to sell me a Minimania stage (whatever I wanted) and THEY would warrant the work for the normal MINI warranty period. To this day they are willing to sell and warrant, for example, a lightweight flywheel and stage 1 clutch (for some reason, they like them). In fact, for awhile, they put up a MiniMania display ... dumped Dinan ... and will warrant anything sold in their catalog.

 

Sorry to add, but I wanted to provide a link to our written warranty -

Webb Motorsports Warranty

Randy

 

(1) Acceptance of mods is generally on a per dealership basis......however most dealers are on the intolerant side as they know that BMW/NA will generally attempt to not reimburse them for repair work performed on a modded car.

(2) BMW/NA has an almost zero tolerance policy. This means if the dealer has to turn to a local rep for answers and it is noted that your car has been modded, you are SOL.

(3) The Magnussen-Moss Act is next to worthless, if not completely worthless. You can scream about it all you want. You can hold your breath. You can whine. You can cry. In the end, the dealerships will call your bluff. In order to get any concession you will have to hire a lawyer.

Even if you hire a lawyer, it can take months to resolve your warranty issue, and in the end, who's to say you'll win? Can you afford the possibility of having your car sidelined for an extended period of time?

In short, modding jeopardizes your warranty. Having said that, I've modded the crap out of my car and am on the PUMA black list (yes, there is one).

 

PUMA?

 

Lawless77 - I don't think that the addition of four driving lights is going to void your warranty.

I would go ahead.

 

Even my local **** dealer will warranty the installlation of an aftermarket part if it is installed by them. That is a per Dealership issue. This means that if your lightweight flywheel and clutch takes a dump, the Dealership will warrant it because they installed it and sold it to you. Keep in mind that if these Minimania parts go kaput, the Dealership will absorb the expense - they will not seek reimbursement from BMW/NA.

That is very different than the Dealer going to BMW/NA and asking for warranty reimbursement expenses on a crapped out Eaton with a 19% reduction pulley that was installed by a local mechanic.

 

PUMA: I believe it is the "Techline" computer database that links BMW/MINI dealers and the manufacturer.

 

Agreed. That is what they said

So what is PUMA?

 

It is B-ietnamese for a case report on a potential warranty item. I have no idea what it stands for - maybe Parts and/or Procedure Under Manufacturer's Assessment.

Or perhaps - Premeditated/Underhanded Manufacturer's Abuse?

 

Lawless77,
You can definitely add the Rally lights 2 or 4, above or under the grill, anyway you like and not have to fuss with voiding the warranty for the MINI in general. However if you do your own electrical work and you get electrical problems then the dealership won't be too happy with troubleshooting the problem given that you are no longer wired like a stock car. As long as you realize this can be a factor then you are fine for the rest of the car.

For Rally lights low see-
http://www.altaminiperformance.com/p...r/lightbar.htm
http://www.mossmini.com/Shop/ViewPro...eIndexID=46640

For Rally lights high see-

and
http://helix13.com/html/products/pro...ew.php?p=8&h=m
http://store.webbmotorsports.com/ind...dex&cPath=16_2