I just got my MCSC about a week ago. It has LSD. It's my first mini, and my first ever front wheel drive car with LSD. I have an all wheel drive Volvo V70R that is my daily driver, and I've had it on the track at Sebring a few times.

I've been experiencing something pretty strange with the Mini - around moderate speed corners, upon throttle liftoff there is some pretty strange weight transfer going on - its almost scary, in that it feels like the rear end wants to come around. It never does of course. Is this just a typical symptom of fwd, the lsd, the runflats, or a combo of all three?

 

Speculation: With the gearing as tight as it is on the 05-06s+LSD you're getting more engine braking than you may be used to. The result is (to your perception) increased lift oversteer. If you ease back into the throttle does it settle down?

Or: Don't lift mid-corner. Ride the rails.

 

Yes, it completely settles down when I re-apply the trottle. Maybe I'm just not used to the fwd+lsd.

 

Mine is still at port in Southhampton, but I talked to some folks who've been autocrossing MCSs. They all said it's very easy to get the car to rotate, I'm assuming those are some of the reasons.

Coming from a Miata that ability to rotate was important to me.

The only other thing I can think of is getting the alignment checked. This is a long shot, because I think it'd be a stretch to notice this on the street. But, I understand that the 05s and 06s have more adjustment in the back. If you have visible positive camber in the back it can exagerate these traits.

Odds are you're just adapting to the car. Stay on the throttle.

 

Best advice there!

 

I used to have a V70, let me tell you, its not FWD nor is it LSD, its the superier handling setup of the MINI. The fastest way round a corner is to have a fairly neutral balance, that is, just a slight bit of understeer and having oversteer on command. The volvo can't do that, its always understeer, and more understeer!

And like the others said, stay on the throttle!

 

Once you get comfortable with the car stock, get a rear sway bar for even more oversteering fun

 

With this in mind, is it due to the nature of the LSD or the car itself? I plan on ordering mine in January and have decided to get it with the LSD, but i've never been in a car with LSD - just been hearing how much better the car runs with it....and not heard any negatives about it. What, if anything, can you guys think of that might be a negative towards the LSD?

 

You can hear it "groan" at low speeds sometimes. Odd until you know what it is. Other than that, it's a no-brainer.

Cheers

 

It's not due to neither the runflats nor the LSD. You will get the same effect wether your car has those or not.

What you've described is the way a good handling FWD car will react to the conditions you put it into. Let me explain. With a good handling car the grip is fairly well distributed front to rear with a little extra grip being given to the rear wheels so you'll tend to push in corners rather than get loose. Some manufacturers will dial in more understeer than others. The MINI was designed with as little understeer as possible while still being "safe" for the average driver. Now back to that corner, when you lift off the throttle (or touch the brakes), that weight, which was fairly well distributed over the front and rear tires, will now transfer to the front of the car. This will do two things. It will give the front wheels more grip and the rear wheels less grip. When your car's fairly neutral and this weight shift happens, then you'll be freer/looser/oversteer. Sometimes this phenomenom is called "throttle-lift oversteer". For whatever reason, from what I've heard, throttle-lift oversteer tends to be more pronounced in FWD cars, but you can also get it to happen in RWD cars as well.

 

I've heard the complaints about the groaning noise, but I don't really hear anything abnormal. Supposedly Mini switched to a different oil in the LSD box that is quieter. I have 550 miles on my car now, and no noise.

As for the handling issue, I really think it is the car rather than the LSD - I think having the LSD pulls the car better during cornering events, showing the neutral handling balance off even better in mid turn when the throttle is cut. I took it out a bit this morning, and I noticed that the tire pressure was at about 33 all round - I just had the R99's put on and the tire shop put 33psi in all the tires. I put in 37 psi cold, and the handling is much better, and more predictable.

 

Cool, well then it's not coming off my list

Cheers

 

This is a great explanation - thanks! This is exactly what is happening. I think I'm just not used to the balance and I need to log more miles. My V70R is actually a pretty good handling car - its a 300 hp 6 speed manual and has an adaptable suspension with three modes, advanced being the stiffest - even more stiff than the mini's suspension. The awd is a haldex unit. Its pretty neutral, but it does favor understeer. I usually drive it with the kids in it, so I don't drive it as quickly as the mini on the roads that were giving me the issues.

 

For what it's worth, I have a brand new mini with LSD, and I can't hear the LSD with a low speed turn as much as barely "feel" it through the steering wheel (feels like a very gentle grind at low speed with the wheel turned); hopefully the groan that was apparent on the earlier cars with LSD has been solved.

 

I've got the LSD, about 13,000 miles. Be aware that when one tire has good grip and the other doesn't in 'spirited' driving, you can get a pull to one side that feels like FWD torque steer.

Love the LSD, I can't imagine the car without it given the power.

It's not torque steer, just the result of the tire with grip still getting power and pulling, thanks to the LSD. It's easily controlled but might be surprising if you've never felt it nor felt torque steer before.

For enquiring minds not familiar with it, I believe torque steer in FWD's comes largely from unequal length drive shafts. MINI's are equal length hence don't torque steer.

 

It's just the say a fairly stiff FWD car drives.

Lifting mid-corner, especially at speed isn't a good habit. If it's "almost" scary, adding a larger rear swaybar like many here have done will probably make you pee your pants.

Of course, despite the feel, the MINI is still an understeering car and it will take a drastic lift or a slick road surface to get you in any trouble.

 

I love my MCS with LSD even more now that I've added a sway bar. I'm still on the softest setting until I can learn its attitude before moving up if needed.

There is a huge difference between my non-LSD with no sway bar 03 compared to my LSD with sway bar 06. There is a round-a-bout on my way home that I have fun with when I'm going through there late at night with no traffic. In my 03, I would near the center concrete going in but by the time I was mid way around, I was pushing towards the outside and left the round-a-bout on the outside. I tried the same with my 06 and I can keep it roughly two feet away all the way around and this is runnig a few mph faster.

The LSD rocks. Combine it with a sway bar and you have a very neutral car that goes exactly where you point the front wheels.

 

Having 2 MINI's with LSD I can say that it is best just to keep the throttle going while going through the corner. Although the car does seem to lift if you ease of, the tight suspension, and the LSD pull you through the corner quite well. Once you get used to it, you really use it to your advantage.

My hint... take the car on some open backroads and find your break loose point while cornering. Once you know what the car can handle, you will be surprised at how far you can push it under normal "spirited" driving without ever getting it to break loose!

 

This sucks when it's raining and you're going uphill crossing lanes at WOT. When one tire is crossing the painted line, it spins and LSD kicks in and shifts the car. But you get used to it

 

you'll get your hearing aid checked after you drive a fiat x1/9 or a gen 1 MR2.

 

Here's my hint - don't try to find the limits out on a public road. Do it in an empty parking lot. There's a lot less stuff to hit and far less chance of oncoming traffic. Get used to how the car feels as it approaches the limits and what it does when you exceed the limits.

If you feel that you must do this at high speeds, then I suggest that you sign up for a high performance driving school and learn how to drive in a controlled environment on a race track.

Michael

 

I'll be going to the Phil Wicks school at Sebring in April - It should be the perfect place to explore the limits of this car. I live almost in the middle of the most densely populated county in FL, and there are no windy roads to speak of, and traffic all over the place.

Since I first noticed the throttle lift oversteer sensation, I've tried it a bit more on freeway on ramps - I don't even have to be going at an unsafe speed to get the weight to shift. My Volvo R is not that neutral, so It was a bit disconcerting when I first noticed it. I plan to definitely explore the real limits on the track.

 

I was instructing at an auto-x school. Student in a 1st gen TMR2. He was doing really great. Worked on getting smooth. Thought that the smooth setting was dialed in so I suggested we carry a little more speed through a section. It wiggled just a little bit, like the tires were getting really set.

Smoothness went away. Sudden lift. Sudden oversteer.

We laughed about it. Those MR2s have amazing limits, but once you cross them things happen quicky.

V70R congrats on going to Phil Wicks. You'll have a blast. After you go, would you post a comparison to your track time in the MINI vs. the Volvo?

I plan on doing the same against my Miata.

 

Absolutely! I can't wait to get the car down there. Since I decided to keep the R91's for the track, I've been looking for some good track tires. I like the idea of the Michelin Pilot sport cup (I have Michelin PS2's on the V70R and I love them), but they don't come in the size I need. I like them because they don't need to be shaved - I would have to drive them down to the track on the car as there isn't enough room for the wheels and tires to be lugged down there, and the pilot sport cup can handle rain. I've been having a bit of difficulty finding good track tires in the 205/45/17 size, and even if I cheat a bit (like 215/40/17) there doesn't seem to be much out there.

 

I've searched this a bit in the forums and this seems like the best place to ask this question. I can hear/feel in the clutch pedal this groan on our October 05 build 06 MCS with LSD. I typically experience it when making sharp turns at low speeds, it is not necessary to turn all the way to the lock, but it has to be pretty close. If I depress the clutch pedal, I don't get the groan.

So, is this the LSD? It's a bit unnerving at times. At first I thought it was maybe a tire rubbing (stock 17 inch runflats), but that's not it. Is this a problem I should have the dealer look at, or is it just the way the LSD-equipped cars are? Could it be something else? What should I look for or do to further isolate the groan?

Thanks.