Guys (and Gals),

This last Saturday I was on CA-154 going out to San Jose (heading to the 101) and hit some water after rounding a turn in a heavy downpour. I hydroplaned and foolishly used my brakes instead of doing the right thing of driving through it and counter steering. In any case me and my beautiful 2003 S2000 spun out and hit another car.

Everyone is ok. My S2000 is toast. Though I wait for GEICO to figure out it is toast.

So.. I have the choice of getting another S2000 (hopefully with tires that are better for the rain) or trying something new.

I went to the local Mini Dealer (Bob Smith BMW) and I took a test drive of a Mini Cooper S convertable. It is a very cool and fun car to drive though I am not sure (it was rainy) if it has as good a traction and feel as the S2000.

I am in a bit of a quandry. I tell my friends that I am thinking about replacing my S2000 with a Mini and some give the "chick car" argument. Others say that I will miss the power and sticking ability of the S2000 and will get myself in trouble with the Mini. My girlfriend loves the idea. My best car buddy admits he likes the Mini too.

I guess the question is---what do you think? I know you're biased since you bought a Mini. Please know that I am truly interested in the Mini and not trying to start a my car is better than your car disagreement.

I have spent the time to configure my Mini on the web site.

A comment about Bob Smith BMW...

I was dismayed to find out that Bob Smith BMW is going to try to charge me destination charges + $3,000 mark up AND they don't have the car I want either. I really want the Navigation system--and they only have that on a Cooper not an S model. I could order my car from anywhere. I was told that if I wanted the service that comes with the car I would have to buy it from them.

Anyway greedy dealer aside--it is a fun car to drive. Will it get me into trouble by expecting it to perfom as well as my Honda S2000?

-mark=

 

You can get your Mini serviced at any dealer, does not have to be the one you bought it from. Buy out of state, don't pay those west coast markups.

 

Mark,

Welcome to NAM.

One thing you may not have considered is working with a dealership like Classic MINI in Ohio. They sell at MSRP and can have your custom ordered MINI shipped to you for a lot less than $3000.

 

Hi Mark,

Maybe you've seen me on the S2ki boards but I've been a regular there for 4+ years.

The S2000 is a fun car, something I wouldn't mind getting again, but until I run out of cars that will be fun to buy, that'll be awhile. That said, I'm selling my '03 MCS and getting a '05 replacement because I like the car that much. It has proven to be all that it's chaulked up to be... fun to drive, extremely useful and a great city parker. The MY05 changes are major and definitely worth it if you have the opportunity to purchase new.

Will you miss the handling? No, the Mini handles exceptionally well (note: haven't driven a cabrio yet) Do you want the extra level of safety when not on the track? DSC traction-control is available, ASC is standard on the MSC. (Yes those stock S-02's on the S2000 can be tricky in the wet).

Chick car? I see all kinds of people driving Minis... it boils down to what you want to drive and if you care about what others say about you I guess. I could care less, the car is so damn fun!

Power? Well, JCW will get you to 210hp, aftermarket twin-charge systems get you to 300hp. I don't think you'll be missing power much with these options.

Word of advice, shop around... there are MANY MANY MANY places that will sell you a car at MSRP. Don't get suckered by lame Bay Area dealers who want premiums. Road trips are fun, search outside the area, you'll find plenty of reccomendations on the boards for dealers selling at MSRP.

Also, let it be known that as with any BMW/Mini dealership (same as any service inclusive car), they cannot refuse you service just because you didn't purchase a car from them. I bought a used MCS from the East Coast and get it serviced at SFBMW and I've had new and used BMW's serviced at every local dealer!

Go test drive an '05 if you already haven't, see what you need in the car and see if that fits those needs. In the end you have to be happy with it and not rely on other people's comments good or bad. Good luck!

 

First of all...and I'm not just saying this cause I own one, don't exspect the Mini to perform as well an the S 2000, exspect it to perform better! I believe it has posted better slalom times. I don't think a stock Mini S can keep up with a S 2000 in a strait line but mine does quite easily...This past weekend I embarassed some guy in a bright red S 2000 who gave me that red light look and when it turned green we were off(no other cars where around so don't flame me guys) I started out kinda slow to make sure he was gonna go for it and he did...when he was about 3 car lengths ahead I nailed 2nd gear and blew right on past him...he was shocked to say the least, I wasn't though because right after hitting 2nd I armed the M7 nitrous, which of course he did'nt know...lol. At the next light he asked id I hada supercharger to which I replied "yes,but that's not what got ya, this thing has nitrous in it" he said..."oooooooooooooooh" and I think he felt better knowing that. I told him he had a nice looking car and it was pretty fast considering it was probably completely stock. I know this is'nt relevent but justthought I'd share it with ya...peace

 

For $30,000 you get a beautiful convertible with the best 2.0 liter engine in the world. You get 240 hp and 163 lb-ft of torque...beautiful 17" wheels with high-performance (not run-flats) Bridgestone tires. Of course, I'm talking about the S2000. With regards to the Mini convertible, 30-large won't buy you much. You could get your navigation system, but you would still be riding around in a 168 hp, bare-bones Mini. Maybe if you're willing to spend closer to $40,000...well, then you can BEGIN to compare the Mini convertible to the mighty S2000, but don't kid yourself. I've driven both automobiles, and it would take a lot of expensive aftermarket modifications before a Mini convertible could perform like an S2000. Don't get me wrong, I love both cars, but when it comes to performance, the S2000 is king...no doubt.

 

Mark,
Aloha and welcome to NAM.
Sorry to hear about your accident. The MINI is a very safe car. It has the advantage of 4 seats and the hatchback allows for some storage.

The NAV is a nice option. You should also take a look at the Limited slip differential option from the factory for the MCS. For more power get either the John Cooper Works kit upgrade or just add an aftermarket 19% reduction pulley to the supercharger and some suspension upgrades- coil overs or springs and adjustable rear swaybar and adjustable lower control arms.

Stick with the stock 16" wheels to save money and get some lightweight wide rims with sticky non runflat tires- For street use Bridgestone Potenza S-03 or Goodyear Eagle F1 DS-G3 will work.

Rule of thumb is to pay MSRP and not more. Find a dealership willing to work with you and if you go out of state they can ship the car to you if needed which is still a better deal than waiting or paying $3000 over MSRP.

In my last autocross 3 out of my 4 runs (in my street mod MCS) were faster than the fastest run made by an experienced driver in a stock S2000. He finished 5th out of 64 overall. I think you will find that the MINI has a good balance of power and handling.

 

Guess he's kinda right...I do have almost 10k in mods...lol,but my car performs better...not just as good as a S2000 in all concievable aspects. I like how the Honda looks and it is no doubt a great car but I think the Mini is much more unique,but then again if I had fifty grand to spend I still would have bought the Mini and spent the rest on mods,I'm sure that sounds crazy to some but I love this car. When I smoke some guy at a red light in his Mustang GT with a Cooper S the look on his face is priceless...chick car my ***...lol

 

Welcome to NAM! I thought about the S2000 before ordering my MCSC. Here's the math... An S2000 MSRP is $33k. MCSC is $25k. That leaves $8,000 to play with in mods. Which would get you close to 300 hp. Also, did you ever try fitting 3 of your closest friends in the Honda?

 

S2000 is a fun car, but was too tight of a fit for me. I would rather have more room and the performance of a 2005 MCS. I find the MCS very comfortable on long drives. The S2000 was not a car in which I wanted to do any trips over 250 miles.

 

Please don't take this wrong but I think that the S2000 and cars like them really want to be something else. They are a well engineered version of something from another decade ... English or Italian that the average person can afford. As nice as they are ....... and there is no doubt they are very nice.

The Mini however is very content being who it is.... unique....like nothing else. If it wasn't 5:22 in the AM I could probably say this better but you all get my drift. (just MO)

 

here is my .02
I am in basically the same situation, however I am the one that lost the MINI. My two dream cars have always been an S2000, and Cooper S, and still today I am torn between the two. I need help deciding. I had a works version, but I just cant seem to let the Mini go-heres what I think about the cars.

Mini-a rallye car,has the styling, the unique personality, the fun factor, THE GIRLS, space, practicality, snow capability, handling, and the "appetite for adventure" (we all know..) Also BMW and MINI club
Honda-sports car, best cockpit in the car business, best transmission in the business, 9000RPM (03 and below) decent styling, convertable, excellent suspension.

The only reason I lean towards the Cooper S is because of what it is, that it is a more fun car to drive, and that you can take it anywhere. Also, the only advantage the S2000 has is in straight line, and the 05 S (with shorter ratios) tested a 6.4 0-60. Now just imagine what an extra 40 hp would do to that. (the S2000 does around 5.5)

 

Well considering you already HAD a chick car (S2000);, I don't think you'll have a problem with the MINI. (I'm joking - I don't want a few sensitive people around here to send me hate mail!)

SERIOUSLY though, buy an MCS convertible (out of state to save $$$) and spend $2k on performance mods. Get an intake($200), exhaust ($700), 15-19% pulley ($400) and ECU ($325). Those are prices WITH installation. That's around $1600, then spend $400 something on tires (Goodrich KDW-2's $119 a peice at tirerack.com) and you'll totally kill the S2000. Much better looks, incredible handling (better than anything double the price) and you'll even kill the S2000 in a straightaway. Plus those tires are rated extremely well on dry and even excellent in wet and against hydroplaning. Easy decision.

 

I would reiterate what everyone else said, don't pay over MSRP. There are way too many dealers offering MSRP, for you to have to pay more. My next door neighbor owns an S2000, and he is a member of some club because there are tons of S2000's in the driveway on Saturdays. I really like his S2000 and he really like my '05 JCW. With that said they are totally two different cars. The S2000 is quick, but you have to wind the engine so much to get the power. Some people like that, but I prefer more torque down low. While the S2000 has more hp, the MCS has more torque. My friend can beat me to 60, but if he was driving along at 1500 rpm in first gear and we both floored it, I can waste him. I personally feel the Mini has better power in every day driving. The S2000 is more geared to a race track. I feel the handling in the Mini is just as good as the S2000. Most major car magazines show the Mini with a faster slalom time than the S2000 (not by much, but enough to show you that you won't be losing handling speed). I personally think they are both very good cars, but built with two different purposes in mind. The question to you, is whether you want to stay with a two seater convertible sports car, or a convertible sports coupe. If you are going to get the MCSc and you want the most performance, I would purchase the LSD for sure.

 

It's really disappointing to hear that some dealers are still using such blatant lies. I mean, it's one thing to charge a lame markup and be up front about it, but it's quite another to just lie through their teeth. It's a shame that the dealer ratings section of this site seems to be gone for good.

Hate to say it, but if the chick car comments bother you enough to ask us to dispel them for you, the MINI may not be the car for you.

 

The first dealer I went to (East Coast) said that if I didn't buy the car from them I couldn't get it serviced with them. I ended up going with another dealer with less wait time, and still go to the original one to get the car serviced. It really is amazing that they try and tell you that you can't get the car serviced with them just because you don't buy it from them.

On a side note - S2000 was one of the cars I was looking at when I was going to get a MINI, the car itself isn't the only thing that convinced me to buy a MINI... it is the community. The MINI community is amazing, and being able to be a part of the community is a pleasure. It is the most diverse group of people I have ever met, and it just keeps getting better and better with every new enthusiastic owner.

 

On short road courses, I've seen MINIs of both flavors (Coopers and Cooper S) post the same times as S2000's. Same goes for autocrossing... On a longer course, the S2K has an advantage over the Cooper, but the Cooper S can hang right there with it.

My biggest complaints about the S2000 are that you really have to keep it very wound up to have any power and that IMHO, the handling, while excellent, is pretty knife-edge at the limits. The S2000 is the only car that's ever scared me with the way it will snap oversteer with the stock suspension setup. It just takes some getting used to, is all - IMHO, it's a car that requires precision to keep it balanced.

But you're comparing apples to oranges, IMHO - a 2-seat RWD roadster and a 4-seater FWD coupe. I think the MCS has more useable, all around power thanks to the supercharger - obviously, the S2K has more straight-line power.

Either one is a fine choice, but they're very different animals. It's not about what car is ultimately better, but what car is better for you. I don't let anyone else's opinion sway mine, especially not my friends (who are all pickup driving rednecks for the most part - if I listened to them, I'd be driving a boring pickup).

 

Since the Honda is a 2 seater your insurance maybe cheaper if you got a MINI. Not sure how things are on the left coast but in NC that is what they look at.

 

Like some of the others, I own an S2000 and an 05 MCS.

At first I bought the MCS for my wife as a run around car, but I find I'm driving it more and more just because it handles so well and I miss that when I put the S away for the winter. In fact I'm starting to think I might like it better...I know its probably nuts but its a very fun car.


I've even decided that the first track day of the year will be in the MINI instead...and I just put coilovers on the S2000

I'd buy another MINI before I bought another S2000..its a lot of bang for the buck for a much lower price.

Loki - Didn't you go from S2000 - M3 SMG and now to MCS?

 

My husband and I test drove and ' S2000, I loved it, he didn't and I already had my MINI. Now of course I am biased and love my MINI and would never trade it for an S2000, but I would love it if the Husband got one.

His main complaint was that to really get the full effect of power you have to be at about 4500 RPM, not true with the MINI S.

I tend to agree that the S2000 is KING! BUT, if you are ready for a great, unique, and fun to drive car, the MINI is it

 

It's been my experience that the chick car/cute car comments come from NON car enthusiasts. People that know cars and know the MCS's reputation say great things about it.
And for anyone considering buying a MINI-- PLEASE pay MSRP+$$. It keeps our re-sale value unbelievably high!

 

gimme the name and address of the person who said "chick car" I have something for him!

 

haha, what, some chicks?

 

Oof. Valid point.

IMHO: The MINI is a universal car. Just smaller than most. While the S2000 is a super performance car the MINI is more interesting--more versatile and with more personality.

I ordered mine last night via email! Thanks to a NAM member I contacted Julie Saxa at Classic MINI and she was able to do it toot sweet. No markup and no waiting. The car may even be delivered in time to share an enclosed transporter to the Bay Area with 2 others--or more? Makes it a fun experience. Definitely a GREAT community.

 

I owned an S2000 for over four years and will be picking up an MCSC as soon as it can find its way over from Southampton (it was completed six weeks ago).

The S2000 is a beautiful, hand-built auto that I never really wanted to sell. They only import about 7,000 per year so you really don't see that many on the road. It weighs about the same as the MCSC so it does have a definite power advantage right off the truck. You do have to keep the rpms up in the power band to get full use of the 240 horses and the torque is rather low for a performance car. It has a rear wheel powertrain and this is a major difference between the two cars. I had the S2000 on the track a couple of times and there are very few production cars that can handle a track (with curves) as well as that car. However, it being a rear wheeled auto can create some problems. My son was on the track with me and he managed to spin the car very easily by tapping the brakes gently. The power transfer from rear to front is very abrupt and can cause problems if you are not used to a rear wheel car.

The highlights of the S2000 are its incredible short-throw transmission and knife-like handling. The trade-off is the ride can be rough on all but the smoothest roads. There are very few options you can order when you buy it and there isn't all that much you can do to squeeze out more power as the engine is giving all that it can. The MCS actually rides better even with the run-flats. The MCS is probably a safer car with six airbags and traction control. Being a front-wheel drive car you are less apt to get yourself in trouble. If you like to work on your car, the option and accessory list is much longer for the MINI. Reliability and dealer accessibility will favor the Honda.

I am sure that I will enjoy the MCSC as much (if not more) than the S2000 and it certainly is more practical if you use it as a daily commuter.