Strange as it seems, despite only having had my current '05 CVT MC for just a few months, I'm planning on re-ordering another MINI, and selling my current one when the time comes. No, I'm not "upgrading" to an MCS, thought I've thought about it. Rather, I'm just making sure I get the upholstery I want this time, and not getting jacked by the dealer.

Obviously, I'll be going through another, non-premium charging, dealership this time. (I live in Reno, NV, and any suggestions as to which dealership to go through are welcome, as long as it's not Niello MINI of Sacramento! )

I have no problem with waiting 9-12 months for the new MINI to arrive. However, it's important for me to know how much I can expect to sell my current MINI for when the time comes. I've seen used MINI's in my area selling for SEVERAL THOUSAND over MSRP, even when they've had as much as 24,000 miles on the odometer. I've got about 10,000 miles on my odometer right now, and I expect that I could have as much as 28,000 miles on her by the time I need to sell her. Of course, supposedly MINI is increasing production, and that could very easily have a serious affect on my resale value, but I have no way of knowing by how much.

Also of concern to me is how long it might take me to sell my MINI, and how the transaction would be handled...in consideration of the fact that I will still owe about $22,500 on the car by that time. (You can bet I'm not buying into the 6 year/100,000 mile extended service warranty this time around! )

I don't expect to make money, per se, on this upcoming sale. I do hope that it will pay off the bank loan, and maybe leave me enough cash to further reduce the new MINI's monthly payment. (Current payment is, *gasp* yes, $450 a month, but the newly configured MINI will run approximately $375-$400, without additional assistance from extra sales cash.)

So, if any of you have some good ideas, or even good guesses, what I'll likely be selling the current MINI for, it'd be greatly appreciated. She is configured as follows:

'05 LY/B CVT MC, with Space Gray/Panther Black cloth sport seats.
Chrome line exterior and interior.
Rear spoiler.
Premium package.
Winter package.
DSC.
Xenon headlights.
Front fog lights.
Anthracite dash and headliner.
H & K stereo.
Standard floor mats, and black rubber MINI boot mat, with rear seat pulls, and glove box organizer, plus the extra MINI cup holder.
Base model (15") wheels, with tires upgraded to Yokohama Avid H4S's.

I have no idea if the extended service warranty can be transferred with ownership of the car, but I'll check into it.

For those that are interested, the new MINI will LIKELY be configured as follows:

'05 LY/LY CVT MC, with Leatherette heated sport seats. Though I'm thinking of going with standard seats, just to save $300, or maybe going with Red Cloth/Black Leather combo sport seats for $800 more, which might change the exterior color to PW/PW, but I'm not sure what I'll do there.
Chrome line interior. (Not sure about doing the exterior this time.)
Rear spoiler.
Premium package.
DSC.
Front and rear fog lights. (Gotta have a full set of toggle switches. :smile: )
Anthracite dash and headliner.
H & K stereo.
OEM high performance muffler upgrade.
R90 wheels upgrade.
Mudguards.
Clear bra front end treatment.

If you have any other thoughts or feelings on the subject matter, please don't hesitate to let me know.

Sincerely,

-BillyB

 

My god, I paid $21,315 for an '03 MCS (All 3 pkgs) and TAX FREE!!

 

Ahhh...now we are getting somewhere. When did you buy that '03 MCS, and how many miles were on it? Also, where was it purchased? (As in region of the country, or world for that matter.) These details would help assist me in getting a good idea what I should expect.

I'm also curious if it was a private sale. And, if so, how smooth was the transaction? Did the previous owner still owe money on the car? Anytime I've previously sold a car I owed money on, the sale was as a trade-in. Any car I owned outright was sold privately.

 

With the cost of sales tax, new registration and title, and buying another extended warranty (your current one is NOT transferabl to another vehicle) etc. . . . you could probably have your seats reupholstered or switched with someone else a lot easier than going through the hassle of selling a car and buying another one.

Your list of changes are subtle and most of the options you want can be added to your current MINI. . .

Between now and then, there could also be price increases on the new MINI that you will need to consider. . .

 

Me thinks that if you are going to the trouble of selling your current MINI and re-ordering again, I would personally then consider upgrading to a new MCS automatic.

Just to give you an idea on MINI's incredible resale value, just 3 weeks ago I sold my 2004 MCS with 17.7K miles for $700 ABOVE of what I originally paid for it new!.

That's right. I owned it for 16 months, put close to 18K miles and sold it in just 6 days after I put an ad in www.cars.com for $21.9K cash.

Keep in mind though, that the Cooper models don't have as good resale value as the MCS, but it is still very good overall. Remember that the MCS due to its more powerful engine, it is the most desirable model, thus commanding higher resale values.

My new 2005 MCS 6-speed manual, should be here in about 3 weeks! It will be built this week.

Good luck. I highly recommend placing an ad with www.cars.com Get the $50 "premium" ad package that allows you to upload 12 photos of the car and runs until it sells

Remember that photos is what sells the car (Descriptions don't do much for people) and the more of them you have the better.

 

I agree... a WHOLE LOT easier to upgrade your current MINI than going through the hassle you described!

 

BillyB,

It's nuts to take the depreciation hit on your current vehicle just to get a few things that could easily be supplied via the aftermarket (upholstery, wheels, etc.) Mod your current vehicle to the specs you want. As you are contemplating at least a year's wait, have a substantial financial obligation with your current ride, and are dealing with an historically unstable market: used cars, don't speculate on the "what ifs" of future value and liquidity. Take a realistic look instead, what if your new ride comes in and you can't sell your current car for three months, do you have the financial wherewithall to make both car payments until you sell? What if, your new car comes in with an error in the choice of upholstery? It's happened; will you wait another few months for the right car?

Keep your current ride, modify it to your style and get on with motoring.

 

BillyB, like I said, I sold my 2004 MCS privately 3 weeks ago. I can give you a full round out on the details regarding what you need to do to have a successful sale and some very helpful pointers. I have sold 3-4 cars privately before, so I am very familiar with the procedure.

 

If BillyB is going to bother selling his current MINI and re-ordering a new one, he should consider the MCS Auto to justify the hassle. Otherwise I see no point in getting another MC CVT with different upholstery. The MCS auto is a sweet machine and well worth the added premium, IMO.

 

Ordering a new MINI while having another one, does not automatically imply risk. I ordered my '05 MCS while I still had my '04 MCS and took the gamble. I sold the car 6 weeks before the new '05 is due to arrive at the dealership.

The worst thing that would have happened if I hadn't managed to sell my '04 MCS, is that I would have not taken delivery of the new one, period. My dealer does not penalize customers that can't take delivery of a new custom ordered MINI, for one reason or the other.

Since my dealer no longer requires for me to put down a deposit (I have bought 3 new MINIs from them), placing the order had zero risk for me.

BillyB has not been happy with his '05 MC CVT AT ALL. He absolutely hates the car due to the wrong upholstery. Crazy as it seems, no matter what aftermarket solutions he can get a hold of to "solve" the problem, he is never going to be happy with it.

BillyB has disliked his MINI since the day he took delivery, so I think he needs to take advantage of the resale value and move onto another MINI. What is the point of making car payments on a vehicle that you totally despise?

So, he needs to find a dealership that has a policy of "No questions asked" and full deposit refund in the remote event he fails to sell the car by the time the new MINI arrives.

He is not obligated to take delivery of a new MINI, while still holding ownership of the old one.

 

I read it a bit differently. I see someone struggling to make the current monthly payment, unhappy with their present interior, but not with the financial means to modify the upholstery and not fall in arrears on the loan. A substantial ($500 - $1,000) deposit is required for most people ordering, forfeited if you cancel the order after the production has begun (maybe you could parlay your situation into an advantage for BillyB by ordering his replacement). Still nobody knows the future, how much will a MC be worth when the new car comes in? Who will win the 2005 World Series? I recommend caution and living within your means. Don't look at a new car as a way of lowering car payments, that's just not good sense.

 

OEM high performance muffler upgrade?? Hadn't heard of this one.

In reading your spec, it looks like the only real difference is the uphostery. While you MAY be able to sell for more than you bought it for, a year from now I wouldn't take that bet - more MINIs, demand being met, autos available on MCS, etc. You can add the rear fogs for $100-$150.

Find a donor car at a junkyard, and swap out the seats. Even though you don't pay sales tax in NV (luck ba$tards), there are still financing charges, licensing fees, etc. Speaking of, how is it you can get a more expensive car (R90s, etc.) and expect to pay LESS money? Either it's more $$ down, or a lower rate - do you know what rates will be in a year? I don't.

It makes NO financial sense to trade up one model year.
If you have cash to put into it, you may be able to refinance your current loan, but again, it makes more sense to take that cash and dole out $50/month from it so it 'seems' like you have a $400 payment.

 

1. If you're gonna sell the 05 MC with CVT, try some free listings, like on craigslist.org. The ad runs for 10 days, it's free, you can post 4 pictures, and post it in multiple markets throughout the US

2. I would't go back to Niello either. Most CA dealers get a premium over MSRP; or you wait for months for their orders to catch up to their allocation.
I'd go out-of-state, and recommend Julie Saxa @ Classic MINI in Ohio. All cars at MSRP, parts & accessories @ 20% off, and a full tank of gass, 4 rubber MINI floor mats, european parcel shelf, and a glove box organizer.Check out their site on NAM or email Julie at julie@driveclassic.com

You can ship to Reno; or fly and drive. They'll pick up up at the airport and take you to the dealership to deliver your car.

3. As for extended warranties, wait until you get to near of the regular warranty before you purchase. Extended warranties, financing, and insurance are a dealer's "center of profit"

(Eric: Nevada has sales tax, but no state income tax. Oregon has no sales tax)

Charlie

 

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...246#post482246Billy, you may want to contact NAM user UnderRadar. In the above thread, post #22 he states he'd like to swap his leatherette for cloth. He's down in SoCal, but if you really don't want the cloth...

 

I gotta tell ya BillyB, this is one of the oddest things I have ever heard of.

You're selling the car and ordering another one for the upholstery? And you want to sell this one and buy another b/c you got ripped off with inflated prices? And you want to save money this time by not getting the 6yr/100k mile extended warranty? Nevermind the taxes and other fees that go with buying a car. You want to throw all that away and do it again and somehow expect to save money???? THis makes no sense.

The most sense would be to KEEP this Cooper for 100k miles or 6 yrs...whichever comes first. And the NEXT time you order a car, THEN learn from your mistakes. B/c you already bought this one. You already paid dealer markup - you're not going to get that money back. Same with the extended warranty. Why would you want to buy a new Cooper w/o one when you paid for the warranty on your current Cooper? You'll never recoup that money. Any money you wasted on your current Cooper is wasted. Period. Buying a new one for a better deal won't make up for the mistakes and lost money.

This is blowing my mind a bit...

 

I agree with Greatgro. Then again, if BillyB can manage to sell his car for an exceptional price, then it may be worth it doing it all over again. I did not realize before that Billy had already paid the infamous California markup which obviously is money flushed down the drain.

When you sell an used car, fees are non-recoverable items. Taxes, fees, markups, etc, etc are money gone for ever when you sign on the dotted line. To this day I don't understand why BillyB felt compelled to accept this car, instead of passing on it and re-ordering on the spot. A move like that would have saved him a lot money and uneccesary headaches.

When I sold my '04 MCS 3 weeks ago, I had kept the car 16 months and put nearly 18K miles on it. But in my situation I paid only MSRP for it when new, owed less than 50% of the current market value of the car and finally sold it for more than I originally had paid for it. In my situation, upgrading to a new '05 MCS made sense because I had minimized as much as possible loses resulting from the sale of the old MCS and the purchase of the new one. I also was making money in the process.

My total out of pocket cost of ownership for the '04 MCS was around $1600 which is made up of taxes, tag and dealer fee of $299. Not bad at all. I sold my car for 103% of original MSRP sticker price (ZERO depreciation).

In the end I drove on a beautiful 2004 MCS, bought new, for 16 months for only $1600. What a deal that was!

 

Wow folks, that's a lot of info to chew over. I'd not expected quite so much response, or quite that much "heated" response for that matter.

There is almost no car purchase out there that can normally be considered an investment, be it a MINI, or some classic re-built car, or whatever. Buying a car is not like buying a house. Once you drive off the lot, you start losing value, often times a very significant amount of value. Then again, people don't generally buy cars as an investment. People buy cars because they need automotive transportation, and they buy the car (whatever car it is) for the "fun to drive" experience, or for other sorts of intangible concepts...almost all of which are "in their head", and very much a matter of personal perception of the issue.

For me, buying a MINI in the first place was always something of a financial leap, for the hoped for pleasure of driving something "fun to own". As long as I intended to keep the car for a long time, and actually got the "fun to own" aspect with the experience, I was ok with that.

Have I considered re-upholstering my car? You bet I have. Would I just rather buy another MINI more properly configured the way I want it? You bet. Might I go for the reupholstery option? I certainly might. Is that quite as fun as getting another new MINI? No, not quite.

I wouldn't expect to make a profit on my MINI, and I'd certainly expect to take a loss in the long view of things. I took quite a loss when I left my ex-wife. I lost a house and a car, both of which had a fair amount of money already put into them. However, for the sake of future happiness, it was a loss I was, in the end, willing to take, because it wasn't "just about the money" after all. The same goes here with the MINI.

It's not "just about the money", it's about being happy. If it was just a money issue, I'd have bought my old car, after the lease was up...though all that certainly wasn't a "wise investment" either. After all, if I did, I'd have a good condition Toyota RAV-4, loaded with most every option, for $200 a month for four years, and then I'd own the thing...though by then it would've had about 160,000 miles on it. Of course, I always hated the color, but what's that got to do with anything? A lot actually, if you like to enjoy the vehicle your driving around in. Of course, I could've had it re-painted, but...that would be both expensive, and would never quite be the same as a factory paint job. So, was I right to get the MINI instead?

Hmmm...maybe I wasn't, and maybe I should sell it, and buy a Scion xA, or something like that? Maybe something even more "practical"? Oh, wait, that's right, there's little that's practical about owning any car, so that would seem to make some of these arguments rather pointless.

Anyway, if I can sell the old MINI for a very decent price, and make a smooth transition to a new MINI that's configured to my tastes, that costs me a bit less every month, well...why not? I have had many strangers off the street stop and ask me if I want to sell my MINI, and how much I'd be willing to sell it for. I've never experienced that with any other car I've owned. I'm intrigued, and I truly don't think it would take me long to sell.

The new MINI will cost me less each month, simply because of how it will be configured, and because I won't be paying a premium this time around, and I won't be buying into the extended service warranty. I won't "save" money in the end, overall, because of that, but it will cost me less every month, and I think that will be of significance to me personally. I'll also be driving around in something that's more "me" every month, for many years to come (one would hope, but one can never know for sure), and that is significant to me as well.

Yes, I've talked to other MINI owners before about swapping out seats, and it's just never ended up working out, for one reason or another. The reasons why such attempted deals tend to not work out are numerous, and I won't bother to get into all that here, although I'm always open to the possibility. Thank you for the recommendation.

I had naturally assumed I'd be going through a more local (as the crow flies) dealership, and that my wait on delivery time would be about 9 months for an MC. But, yes, it sounds like I could shop around across the country, and have a delivery time more on the order of a few months, while still paying MSRP. I'm not sure if I want to do that, as I still need to "pay down" my current MINI to a point where I can sell it for a price that'll pay the car off, and allow for a smooth transition to the new MINI. I couldn't afford to do this if I'm going to end up upside down, especially considering taxes, licensing, and registration costs.

Of course, that's why I'm asking for guesses on what the current MINI's resale value may be. If I can get concrete enough answers, and they look good enough, then I'll move forward. Putting a $1,000 to $2,000 deposit down on the new MINI is not a significant issue, though it'd be great if it could be refundable in a worse case scenario. That'd make moving ahead much easier.

I appreciate all your input on this matter. I'll check into that dealership that was previously mentioned, and see exactly what kind of deal they've got going. I'd be very happy to go through a dealership with a good reputation on this forum, as I like to give my business to those deserving of it, when I can.

Thank you.

Sincerely,

-BillyB

P. S. Why didn't I refuse the car way back when I was picking it up in the first place? Well, that's...much like the story of my leaving my ex-wife...something of a long story. I won't bother retelling it all here, though I have written about it before here on these forums. You can find that story, and the back and forth banter about trying to deal with the issue, if you want to search for it. Sorry, I can't remember what I titled that post, but it's out there, somewhere.

 

I bought my loaded 03 MCS for $22,500 and traded it in a year later after putting 16K on it for $20k even.

 

Yikes, here's hoping I like the space gray cloth on my MCSC when it arrives in April...didn't want hot sticky leather or hotter, stickier vinyl in a convertible, and MINI doesn't offer all-black cloth in the MCSC.

 

The high quality leatherette seats are not hot or sticky like vinyl seats of yesteryear American cars.

That's mostly an unfounded myth. I live in Miami, FL which is humid and hot year round and have had zero problems with the "vinyl" seats.

To me cloth seats are nasty. They absorp body persperation and odors. Hard to clean if something spills on them and trap dust and dirt like a regular carpet.
Yuck!

 

I personally could never be happy if I had to pay 2 rounds of sales taxes, and take the depreciation hit that's around 3K!, to change interior, but as the saying goes....if youv'e got the money honey, I've got the time.

So that means it is really quite simple. order the car you want, When it is a month or so away, List your car for-sale for about $500 less you paid for it and come down in price as delivery for your new one nears. If it doesn't sell trade it in to the dealer.

 

3 weeks ago, I sold my '04 MCS for $21.9K. I originally paid for it $21.3K. Put 17K miles and ended up making money on the sale!

Anything is possible.

 

a great place to investigate resale value is to simply search completed auctions on eBay.

 

Not really. Ebay is not the most accurate gauge to determine used car prices. Your best bet is the local dealer used car auctions. Auction prices and not Ebay is what helps determining the "value" of a given car.

Private sale retail values are all over the map and therefore much more difficult to track. That's why free online services such as KBB.com and Edmunds.com fail miserably when they attempt to establish private sale retail values for used cars. You can't possible put these values under the same exact umbrella.

 

I disagree, eBay is the largest online used car sales site. If you are looking for trade in value, you should ask about dealer auctions. If you are looking for resale value, check the best place available for the actual prices people are paying for the cars. I don't see how that wouldn't give you a very good idea of how much cars are selling for.