$246, seems too good to be true, so it usually is. But.... Anyone?

Mini Cooper S (R50/52/53/56) 2000 - 2013 LSD conversion set - Limited slip diff | eBay

 

1/3 almost the price of any others... if they warranty it , give it a try...I've had some great results with oddball ebay things.

 

It's a kit for modifying your current diff.

I didn't dig into the instructions but I bet you'll spend most of what you'd save in getting it installed.

 

It’s a phantom lock worthless hard pass

 

Not so much advocating for them, but playing Devil's advocate. Also, any reviews or hard evidence, either way, would be appreciated.

I'd be installing it myself, plus don't see the saving as installation costs are the same, labor is labor and with a new LSD you need to set up the lash on the ring and pinion don't you? So overall installation costs the same.

Next time I need a clutch I may just continue stripping it down and give this a try, They have a video and it's pretty straightforward.

Unless the stock Mini LSD is still in the $500 range, then I may forgo all the hocus pocus and just drop a real LSD in.

Found a few reviews from the E46 guys and unless you're tracking the car, they mostly like it, and seems to hold up well.

Also, the Phantom uses the thrust washers as the locking device, and the Racingdiffs use actual clutch packs on either side. This is the same as a stock GM Trac-Loc as far as I can tell.

 

It was $500 as an option when new, but I haven't been able to find a separate part number for it,
does it have a part number?

All I could find is the entire gearbox # 23007574848 for around $4,000 from the dealer.



I did a Quaife in mine at 140,000 miles, which replaced the factory GKN SuperLSD...

...if you're interested in my used factory unit,
I'd sell it.

 

Guess it depends on power level and usage. I bet I would snap that thing in a hurry with my output

 

True, with higher than stock levels I bet it wouldn't last. On the same note, what is the stock factory one rated for?

 

I have cooked 2 of those lol. It cant handle 300+ of spirited driving. No stupid stuff like launches or drops or general civic driving. Os Giken 1.5 now

 

Thanks, yeah that's a bit O' HP there

I don't think mine will ever see anything North of 200. But that being said, I also think that if I'm going to pull the tranny and open it up, I'd really just do it once for sure. I'd rather drive that fix any day, so low-budget Hack-type LSD probably isn't for me. Was I nice idea, but maybe not executed as well as one would like.

 

OS Is way to much for your needs. OEM is pretty much same price as Quafie when new so no point on that and I wouldnt install a used LSD myself unless it was rebuildable. Just to much left to chance and doing the job again. I am sure the typical I would throw used oil in my car people will shut my down but lot o work for a maybe.

 

I'm curious to know how an LSD affects drivability, particularly on a MINI that's not tracked and pushing less than 250hp. Who on here has changed their non-LSD to an LSD and can tell us if the difference is really noticeable? And, describe the differences.

 

I swapped my OEM open diff to an MFactory mechanical LSD, and the difference is not subtle. Biggest difference was noticed in wet and snowy conditions. I have to be much more controlled with the throttle when the road surfaces are slippery. If both front tires lose grip, the car will push right off the road. However, if the road is dry and the tires hook up, the front end will pull through the turns.

My car is not stock, not raced, and my daily driver. I have a "Stage 2" tune.

 

Depending on your type of driving, it's either a massive improvement, or you wouldn't notice. If you've ever done a burn-out in any car, you'd notice some cars have "one wheel peel" - meaning ALL the power goes to the wheel that loses traction, and none goes to the one that still has traction. That is true even when one wheel isn't actually slipping like when doing a burn-out.

...and also using the burn-out analogy, you might have heard some muscle-car guys talk about "posi" - meaning posi-traction - which is an extremely primitive way of making the power from the engine ALWAYS go to both drive wheels, in a 50%/50% split. And that sounds great except when you go around a corner, your inside wheels actually have to turn slower than your outside wheels. So cars with "posi" handle pretty terribly because while they can hook up when going in a straight line, they actually can spin out due to the outer tire being forced to spin slower than what the actual wheel speed is, and causing the inner wheel to spin faster than the actual vehicle speed - so not great for handling.

A limited slip tries to be the best of both worlds. It's for handling, not really burn-outs or drag racing. It routes power to both wheels, but in a way that still allows the wheels to rotate at different speeds. So - when going around a corner, you don't effectively have all your power going to just one tire, it's split between both tires - not necessarily equally, but in a far better ratio than "100% here, 0% there". That improves your grip and handling in corners because you don't have one tire with ALL the power routed to it, ready to break grip - and also because you have the power split across two tires you'll be able to pull from corners faster and harder, which improves track and autocross times. It "feels" like increased traction when you are on the throttle.

On the flip side - if you have a MINI just for cruising, not for pushing handling to the limits, you'd probably hardly notice a difference. It's really about how the car performs in a "performance" sense, not how it cruises or drives on an everyday basis. Even on an everyday basis, you gain benefits in traction, in wet or snow especially, but a non-performance driver might not even be aware of it in a "noticeable" sense. A casual driver just wouldn't experience wheel slip leaving a parking lot in the rain. It's hard for a casual driver to appreciate what doesn't happen, right?

 

Super noticable. My 15% '04 did not have one, my 17% JCW 06 does. All other factors essentially equal between the two. Nearly identical suspension, same wheel/tire combo, same driver....

#1 Traction in the wet is improved. I wasn't able to use more than 60% throttle if the roads were wet. DSC would often activate even when dry with aggressive starts/driving. I rarely encounter the DSC light now.
#2 Acceleration out of corners. Id often get the inside tire to spin when coming out of tight corners under boost without the LSD. Now with more power on the exact same roads it feels like I'm being launched out of the corners, even when roads are wet.

I had always contemplated upgrading my FWD open diff toys but it was never in the budget and I didn't have an example car to test drive. Its a wonderful improvement and highly recommended, even at bolt-on power levels. It transforms how the car drives in a good way.

 

Most people don't need or really want one after driving one. ITs sort of like if you have to ask you prob wont like it. The stock unit is very tame. More aggressive units can be dangerous if your not a experienced driver. Some are damn right nasty in certain conditions like a 4x4 truck with it engaged on dry pavement. It just depends. But if you have to ask you prob don't need one based on your current driving style or usage of vehicle.

That's not meant to be negative sorry if it seems that way. Just saying that if you had one great but if you don't know you likely don't really need it as you don't drive in a manner or do things where you would see improvements If that makes sense. As said above if your not in these situations then its pointless and the upgrade could be very regrettable.

 

A posi is not a spool or a welded diff as the behavior above by geolemon was describing. . Having high centered a gmc with posi in the mud, I can tell you that they are an lsd. It’s a brand name of any type of GM LSD. And having driven a full time 4x4 GMC with welded diffs front and rear for a good many years I am quite familiar with hopping in turns. Especially the low speed very tight parking lot ones!
bmws and thus our minis use a plate clutch type lsd at 25% lock up. Posi can be plate clutch (Eaton) or cone clutch (auburn) but they are still clutch type LSD!

what I’ve noted on our 06 with factory LSD is that when it is on the verge of breaking traction, like accelerating off a stop sign whilst turning right and just as boost come in (especially n crap worn tires) it does fight the steering wheel for a moment and first try to jerk to inside side before giving up and letting it follow the same curve. And that’s with dsc on. (As opposed to lsd rwd where they understeer out)
But vs peglegging where the inside wheel would spin and almost totally lose acceleration until you both get off and back on power to regain traction.like my wife’s FWD vr6/Atlas….it’s very worth it.

I frankly wish my f31d had an LSD to help put down the torque but BMW stopped including them with cold weather package way way back in 93.

 

Also to Cooper48 whom my response was trying to assist - take note:
To avoid confusion, this really wasn't bait for pushing the glasses up on the nose and arguing semantics, as this isn't a GM muscle-car forum with "Well aaacccttuuualllyyy..." posts. There's lots of things muscle-car guys get offended over. Not my world, by very, absolutely deliberate choice. These cars are the opposite of muscle cars.

The point here is to

• Describe how an open diff feels (one extreme, and the issues one might experience).
• Describe how a truly closed diff feels (the other extreme, and the issues one might experience).
• Describe how a limited slip occupies the space in between the two of those spaces, specifically because it aims to address the issues with both extremes.

I apologize that you took offense with the colloquialism "Posi". I suspect your contrarian-sounding first line might unfortunately cause confusion, as if you were disputing my three descriptions, so I do want to clear that up.
Actually - you've agreed with my descriptions of the three, and your description of an old school 4x4 with lockers and low is similar and worth comparing even though it's potentially both axles in that scenario. Old school 4x4s are an interesting similar scenario with true "lockers" in the low range [which differentiate them from AWD that don't lock and might not even have LSD!] - although in that case it's more about being in scenarios where your friction has disappeared out from under you, and the disadvantage of having a locked diff are somewhat mitigated in mud or snow with little friction at each wheel. In a sports car, your available friction is high, not low, so having a locked or welded closed differential are just bad, even for daily driving - as is true for a locked 4x4 on pavement.

To reiterate the bottom line for Cooper48's sake on understanding the "feel" - if you are just daily driving and not anywhere near the limits of grip, you might not even notice the difference between an open and limited-slip differential, even with an LSD (even a bad one) really being "better". LSD isn't an advantage until you push hard enough in corners with throttle on, or accelerate into (or out of) a turn. If you drive like grandma, you don't need it / wouldn't notice - even in the rain.
But if you are pushing your sports car and even driving spiritedly - and certainly on a track or autocross - you'll absolutely notice what feels like an improvement in traction, because it's routing power to both wheels to better utilize both drive tires.

 

Sorry you took offense. The ability to communicate knowledge effectively is the true test of understanding, therefore I assumed you didn’t have a clue what you were talking about and corrected your completely wrong explanation for the edification of the OP and future readers.

 

Read my response to yours.
Read your response to mine.

...who took offense? I even credited you with agreeing with my points, and clarifying that you are only arguing the semantic...
...which itself doesn't take much Sherlock Holmesing in light of the sharp left turn away from the point (or the OP's question): Who is apparently a triggered young 'un still listening to the muscle car dads? You don't get all triggered, then accuse someone ELSE of taking offense.

Look - you didn't even READ my entire post - not only the first one, but my reply either. Let's not push up the glasses again and try to be all righteous a second time.
Give it a few decades, you'll be chuckling like I am.

 

I mean, your description of Positraction was completely wrong...

I've seen people refer to non-GM LSDs as Positractions, but I've never heard anyone call a spool a Posi until now. Referring to a spool as a Posi seems unnecessarily confusing for the uninformed, so why not just call it what it is (a spool) and be done with it?

 

My car doesn't have am lad according to when I ran my vin for its build sheet BUT I wonder if prior owner put in the lsd trans along with its newer engine.. any definitive way to tell ?
it lays full 2x wheel burnies for as long as i let the tires fry but yet on jack stands when I spin one wheel the other spins opposite way..
so is it that the stock lsd just doesnt have a high % lockup or something ?? Because I too wanna build up my trans over this winter and for awhile been looking at lsd's but this is one I been eyeballing..plan on an lsd and strongest clutch I can find with the most stock feel yet..

https://www.ebay.com/itm/13402078760...mis&media=COPY

 

Correct, if it lays two stripes it’s an lsd, they’re only 25% lock up so the old other wheel turns same way vs other way test doesn’t seem to work on mine either. I’m guessing it has something to do with FWD.

 

My description of what happens when the power is always a 50/50 split was absolutely NOT wrong. Your issue is a "Weellll...technically" with a colloquialism that apparently hit home and offended you.

I used the term posi in quotes, as a colloquialism - and correctly, at that - that's how the English language works.
Even my qualification that "...the muscle car guys mean posi-traction, when they say that" is worded properly... they do. Sure, they might be misusing that term every time a car pulls up and does a one-wheel peel after a car show: "No posi, hahaha!"
Who cares about them? It's a little unfortunate that they dominate the car show scene, but it is what it is, and that's life. Show up at more car shows and be an activist - correct them at the burnout pit, if it means that much to you. (Oh I wish I could be there...)

And ganging up to help your buddy - that's just childish. Look, it's easy to spot the trolls... I'm a longtime moderator on other broad-age-range enthusiast and fabrication forums, but it really doesn't even take that to spot it.

Anyway, since you skipped the comment immediately before your response which already summed this up, OR you chose to ignore for the sake of trolling for your buddy, OR you truly are reading impaired (let's be honest - you'd be more gun-shy if you were):
Even though I quoted Cooper48 directly, you didn't 'get' the whole question/answer format, or whatever. Fine.
Trolls don't have a purpose, but it's fun to ask, right? Are you afraid Cooper48 runs the risk of BUYING a Posi(TM) differential for a MINI? Are you wishing that I'd edit my original post to remove references to muscle-car guys? Sorry again if that hit a nerve.

This (again) brings this thread back on-topic, unless you care to troll again.
An LSD falls between those described two extremes - and you'll notice the benefits if you are driving at the limits of grip.
It really wasn't a difficult post to understand. I'm sure it'll help someone.

 

She should have received an Oscar for this role.
<iframe width="923" height="519" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/LFdpIM5k_Sk" title="My Cousin Vinny explains posi-traction" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>