Welp, I've had some extreme inner tire wear, as in NEW front tires only last from September to this past May, middle patch and outside edges hardly show any wear. So I decided to replace all bushings and control arms, even replaced my old PF LCABs with new Powerflex units. Along with a few other bits and maintenance in the area.
My concern - I may have reinstalled the lower control arm brackets upside down... with the flat side up, is this a possibility? I remember installing the flat side up so the sway bar bushings would have a flat surface to sit on, at the time it seemed logical.
So, with that said, issues would this cause? Am I missing anything for the sway bar bushings or are they only held on by the top clamp? 🤔
Note: Took the R53 to a shop to get an alignment and they said it wouldn't even be possible due to the amount of negative camber. They suggested I replace the struts and springs. So with that I've got new Bilstein struts and strut mounts on the way.
I don’t think it’s possible to install them upside down and also have the rest of the subframe line up. Aren’t both of those photos upside down from how they install in the car?
Not sure if this helps, but I attached a pic of my subframe when it was dropped for servicing. U may be able to compare it to how yours was installed. Hope it helps...
I don’t think it’s possible to install them upside down and also have the rest of the subframe line up. Aren’t both of those photos upside down from how they install in the car?
I believe you're correct. Looking at the attached picture below you can almost see that there is only the long narrow side attached to the subframe. Makes me believe the flat side is to the top for the sway bar bushings to sit flush on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ngtphantom
Not sure if this helps, but I attached a pic of my subframe when it was dropped for servicing. U may be able to compare it to how yours was installed. Hope it helps...
Yes, you're a great help and that was much appreciated. Seems to me the flat side would be facing upward for the sway bar bushings to sit on. I'm losing my mind over here trying to rethink all of my work and put a pin in this front end tire feast. 🙃
I’ve had cars that ran 1-2 degrees per side with no major issue. I had an e34 that ran 3.5 per side rear.. no issue. But whe toe was to far in, bam eats tires in 5k miles.
I’ve had cars that ran 1-2 degrees per side with no major issue. I had an e34 that ran 3.5 per side rear.. no issue. But whe toe was to far in, bam eats tires in 5k miles.
^This. Toe will kill tires MUCH faster than camber. If it’s only the inside edge that is worn down, it’s a toe issue.
Also, if you still have factory top strut mounts, your camber can’t be more than -1.5° unless you have major suspension damage, which would have been noticeable by the alignment shop. I would suggest finding a new shop. Any competent alignment shop should be able to get the car on a rack and at the least get you a print out of the current numbers. Those number will tell a LOT about the current status of your car so you’re not just throwing money at it.
I’ve had cars that ran 1-2 degrees per side with no major issue. I had an e34 that ran 3.5 per side rear.. no issue. But whe toe was to far in, bam eats tires in 5k miles.
No, I'm not aware of any specs as far as toe and camber go. The first shop did an "alignment", they said the front was in spec but they were unable to adjust the rear at all - No print out due to "their printer being down", not the first time I've heard this one. But the steering wheel was no longer at the 11 o'clock position when driving straight, just a crazy amount of tram lining and torque steer...
And yes, it just the inside edges that are being eaten up at an alarming rate.
So I found a shop that had a Hunter alignment machine and said they would provide a print out. When I got to the appointment for the alignment the shop manager said that there was no way he could perform an alignment due to the amount of camber the tires showed when the R53 was in the air (I found that strange, but he didn't try to sale me extra parts or blinker fluid), he did suggest camber adjustment plates.
Tomorrow I'll call the shop with the Hunter machine and see if they can just check the front specs for camber & toe. But I've already got 4 new Bilstein B4 struts, Lemfoeder strut mounts, and Power Flex strut boots/bump stops in - arrived today funny enough. <Weekend project, almost 70k on old Stagg shocks, so a bit of a refresh would be nice.>
Big thanks for the toe spec tip! 🙌
I changed all bushings and ball joints in the front end along with tie rods and other maint. parts, so it's no surprise the alignment is out of whack.
Also, I'm running 215/35/18 rubber bands. Not sure how or if the bigger rims would accelerate the tire wear, thoughts on that? I'd gladly switch back to my OE 17's.
Thanks all, I hope to have an alignment printout soon!
^This. Toe will kill tires MUCH faster than camber. If it’s only the inside edge that is worn down, it’s a toe issue.
Also, if you still have factory top strut mounts, your camber can’t be more than -1.5° unless you have major suspension damage, which would have been noticeable by the alignment shop. I would suggest finding a new shop. Any competent alignment shop should be able to get the car on a rack and at the least get you a print out of the current numbers. Those number will tell a LOT about the current status of your car so you’re not just throwing money at it.
Amen to that, but it's been a challenge to find a good alignment shop that works on MINIS at all. Except the ONE specialty BMW/German auto guys and they're a 75 mile drive one way. Being in SC it's all trucks and SUVs... Very few MINIS in my area. I'm hoping this new shop can get me the printout at my request.
rear Toe on most bmws (that’s where I come from) is -0 degree 20’ish total, about 10 minutes of a degree per side.
not much just enough to not have slack. But on some rear suspension designs like the classic trailing arm rears, under compression will even switch to toe out while extension toes in even more. Basically a very very early very very passive version of rear steer.
My e34 had been lowered by PO past that point (like 1.5” lower iirc) It was very stable because It was running toe out vs in but eating tires at an alarming rate.
from what I understand, a failing bushing can easily cause more than that and the adjustments are more like on the old trailing arm bmws,ie are linked so you have to adjust as a unit to find the right compromise between camber and toe, you can’t change one without changing the other. It’s damn frustrating if you are used to setting individual settings one by one and trying to find the right compromise per side,but also for the rear.
im no alignment tech but I basically did my own rear alignment at BMW on their rack with their tools back in the day because I had kmac bushes that let you move the pivot point on each bush around and their guys had never seen such a thing. They came and quietly asked me to come back and show them how to use them… so I basically gave a class on aligning trailing arm rears the first time I ever did an alignment on my dropped e34 wagon. Came out damn nicely to m-tech specs cause I can see geometry / spatial acuity and by god I was paying for it and wanted it right before I put the entire rear exhaust back on again!
in any case and sorry for going off topic, best of luck with yours. Just remember Toe is more important than total camber amounts. As long as camber is relatively even per side, even 3+degrees per side is a ok and drives right and wears evenly… IF toe is right.
once I get ours running again (failed alternator and battery terminal is dorked) and recover financially again, suspension refresh is top of the list for us too.
rear Toe on most bmws (that’s where I come from) is -0 degree 20’ish total, about 10 minutes of a degree per side.
not much just enough to not have slack. But on some rear suspension designs like the classic trailing arm rears, under compression will even switch to toe out while extension toes in even more. Basically a very very early very very passive version of rear steer.
My e34 had been lowered by PO past that point (like 1.5” lower iirc) It was very stable because It was running toe out vs in but eating tires at an alarming rate.
from what I understand, a failing bushing can easily cause more than that and the adjustments are more like on the old trailing arm bmws,ie are linked so you have to adjust as a unit to find the right compromise between camber and toe, you can’t change one without changing the other. It’s damn frustrating if you are used to setting individual settings one by one and trying to find the right compromise per side,but also for the rear.
im no alignment tech but I basically did my own rear alignment at BMW on their rack with their tools back in the day because I had kmac bushes that let you move the pivot point on each bush around and their guys had never seen such a thing. They came and quietly asked me to come back and show them how to use them… so I basically gave a class on aligning trailing arm rears the first time I ever did an alignment on my dropped e34 wagon. Came out damn nicely to m-tech specs cause I can see geometry / spatial acuity and by god I was paying for it and wanted it right before I put the entire rear exhaust back on again!
in any case and sorry for going off topic, best of luck with yours. Just remember Toe is more important than total camber amounts. As long as camber is relatively even per side, even 3+degrees per side is a ok and drives right and wears evenly… IF toe is right.
once I get ours running again (failed alternator and battery terminal is dorked) and recover financially again, suspension refresh is top of the list for us too.
Very informative, you dropped a ton of knowledge I wasn't aware of. Sounds like you really know your stuff when it comes to BMW's alignment. Wish I had you in my area for alignment work...
So I called the shop and they'll put it on the machine to get me a print-out of the current alignment specs for $50, then another $200 for the full alignment job. 🤨 When I mentioned that I was interested in the current toe specs more so than camber the manager acted a bit surprised... I don't feel as confident in these guys as I did before our conversation, I mean is that such a strange request?
$350 Bilstein B4 OE shocks
$100 previous alignment
$80 strut bearings
$140 CravenSpeed STDs
$55 Powerflex strut boots and bump stops
$50 upcoming alignment check
$200 alignment after suspension is installed
Almost a grand in just for a factory quality ride, really wishing I'd have gone the coilover route now... just venting.
It’s odd that they would be surprised that you were interested in toe. It will affect tire wear much more strongly than camber. Most cars today don’t have camber and caster adjustment because manufacturing tolerance can make them in spec as long as specs are loose enough and it saves in manufacturing costs. Of course they go out of spec after a few years and then you have to add camber plates, etc. since they don’t have adjustment. My Mercedes manual says that if rear camber is out, then I must have damaged the car and should buy a new one. Ha ha.
However, all wheels have toe adjustment (except for truck beam axles) since it is extremely sensitive. In fact, if you have a lot of camber, you can actually balance the wear by setting the toe to compensate. BMW rear suspensions sometimes do this and the result is even (but fast) wear.
You should be more surprised by having to spend $250 on a wheel alignment. That's more than twice what any ethical shop should charge for a 4-wheel laser alignment.
You should be more surprised by having to spend $250 on a wheel alignment. That's more than twice what any ethical shop should charge for a 4-wheel laser alignment.
I know right, I ghosted those guys. For that I can get a 3 year alignment plan at NTB!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mini_me123
My upper shock mounts just gave up the ghost & I noticed mad camber on one of the wheels as a result. How are your shock mounts?
Shock mounts were replaced last year, even though they had no cracks or signs of wear.
I am looking in that area of the car as i had some mushrooming... Bought Solo Werks coilovers, and new mounts along with STDs. I'm hoping that'll get me back on the road. should arrive this weekend!😁
*Was going with Bilstein B4 struts and shocks but that turned into a nightmare... Still in the process of getting my money back.
Not sure if this helps, but I attached a pic of my subframe when it was dropped for servicing. U may be able to compare it to how yours was installed. Hope it helps...
Upon further examination. My installation seems correct. Now to get these new coil overs in... Seems like an impossible task as I've been stuck on the front passenger side for over 3 hours (BFH, PB Blaster, and MANY 4 letter words). The darned thing has only the bottom 1mm of the strut left to go, it seems a bit deformed tbh.
On my final attempt of the day, I cut an X in the bottom of the old strut, what a mistake Hydraulic fluid (cheapo Stagg(?) struts, almost the consistency of water[still had a bit of resistance to them]) sprayed everywhere, so there's that, but once I get back to work tomorrow I should have it weak enough to knock right out. May smooth the interior of the carrier with sandpaper. That thing has been a beast...
Adjustable rear control arms won't arrive until Thursday, so any suggestions of what I should replace suspension wise? Haven't read too many threads where people talk about replacing the OE rubber parts in the front suspension, the seats, and whatnot, they could use a refresh for sure.
You should be more surprised by having to spend $250 on a wheel alignment. That's more than twice what any ethical shop should charge for a 4-wheel laser alignment.
Sounds like something the Stealership would quote.
yea ,NO ! I got their lifetime alignment and they didnt honor it Lololol, if you have ANY aftermarket suspension AVOID Firestone.. they'll never get it rite . I went in 4x times ,each time more n more upset as my car drove worse and worse and would pull either left or right..I couldn't belive it !
then they try telling me it was my tires causing it because I didn't get the alignment soon enough after all my suspension mods blablabla so i buy NEW tires AND NEW RIMS , pay Firestone to mount and balance them and then i ask them to aling it and they refuse saying Since i bought new rims and tires that the contract for the alignment was only for the old ones..lololol
sooooooo the customer behind me was listening to my dilemma and as i was walking out it was his turn at the counter and employee asks " how may i help you " the customer said something along the lines of " if you help me how you helped that other customer i dont want that kind help " lolololol then walked out and told me where he usually would go to get his cars done ( small ,privately owned mechanic and shop ) so i went to that guy and he couldn't belive how bad Firestone had my cars alignment.. I thought I had extremely fast tire wear because they were ebay tires but NO , it was due to their terrible alignment..
my brother also took his truck to same place for alignment ( it's closest place so convenient fir after fixs) and he too had to go back 3x times befor they got his truck driving strait abd true... those printouts they give you afterwards showing your suspension angles are ABSOLUTELY fake... I will NEVER go to Firestone.. then I won't even get into how they tried ripping my wife off on a trying to get her to purchase 4x new tires too.. we won't even get into that one.
I agree. Being a franchise tire shop, Firestone service centers are hit and miss for management and quality. I would gladly pay more for a quality alignment from a local race shop, than go to Firestone and get 'who-knows-what' for an alignment.
I agree. Being a franchise tire shop, Firestone service centers are hit and miss for management and quality. I would gladly pay more for a quality alignment from a local race shop, than go to Firestone and get 'who-knows-what' for an alignment.
It isn't so much the shop, but the person doing the alignments. If you have a firestone with a good alignment guy, then you'll get quality results.
Sorry for such a long wait between updating, I've still been wrenching and dialing in the coilover height. All in all, I like the SoloWerks coilovers! 👍👌
The fender gap is gone, had to add 5mm spacers on the front.
Drive is stiffer, definitely an upgrade.
Feels much more resilient than Bilstein B4 OE's.
At the same time, it feels comfortably sporty. 😉
Products came in great shape and after 5000 miles they still look and adjust just like new.
I decided to get an NTB 1 year alignment as a local club member works at a location. Ultimately the tech "just couldn't get the front right wheel into spec." Since installing the SoloWerks the tire degradation seems to have slowed down a bit.
1st Roll: The technician also adjusted the new adjustable rear control arms.
How I entered NTB
2nd Roll: Still not where it should be, plus I've lowered it another ½ inch in the front since.
How I rolled out of NTB
Will be getting another alignment next week, any advice? What stands out to you from looking at the reports? Answer like I'm 5 because I'm not a specialist.
Hydraulic fluid (cheapo Stagg(?) struts, almost the consistency of water[still had a bit of resistance to them]) sprayed everywhere, so there's that, but once I get back to work tomorrow I should have it weak enough to knock right out. May smooth the interior of the carrier with sandpaper. That thing has been a beast...
