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Considering stage 2x clutch and LSD... gurus chime in please !
So I've gotten to the point that an LSD is needed in my car.
here's my questions....
can you give me a quick run down of what the job mainly consists of , like does the engine and kframe drop ???? I have NO CLUE .
Also lol sorry to sound so dumb but I'm so noob with working on transmissions so i will be paying a helper too. But would i then have easy access to the clutch during this and change that then while the lsd is getting installed? Then with the power my car is making should I switch to a 1x piece flywheel or stick with the dual mass ? I prefer not to go lightweight flywheel as I like that but I will if it doesn't make shifting these cars hard because I love the feel of how it shifts now but I know it's gotta be getting old as it's getting kinda stiff.
also I was reading about people making the non lsd's into an lsd with these kits abd they swear they prefer them over the obx ones even but idk if i belive that. Also would either of these lsd's im looking at NOT be a good option and why ?
I know I'm asking ALOT but this is something that's really really gonna change the way my car feels and drives so I wanna make sure for once to not just go all race car and this time actually factor in drivability. Because i don't wanna end up with a terribly hard to shift car. I love it's feel and how I can slam gears so I'd love to keep this feel but make sure it's going to hold my cars power and actually be able to utilize that power and not one wheel wonder my way to a loss.
OMG, do NOT get one of those “Phantom” LSD kits. Do some research on them, and run the other way. I installed an MFactory diff into my transmission. Makes putting the power down so much smoother. Quaife would have been my second choice. The OBX LSD might not be that bad of a unit, but I thought they were obsolete? Plus, OBX is the cheap Chinese brand… MFactory have a decent warranty, and they use quality materials.
For clutch, check out Clutchmasters. They have a steel single mass flywheel that will close to stock weight, but single mass. If you don’t want the clutch to be an on-off switch, get their FX100 kit. I have that kit in my stage 2 R55. Soft pedal feel, decent for stop and go traffic, but will still grab and spin the front snow tires into third. Supposedly the 100 kit is still rated for +75% over stock.
As for the removal of the gearbox, you’ll have to drop the front subframe. On the R55 I had to almost completely strip the front end. Don’t plan for anything less than a full weekend’s worth of work on the car, and make sure you have everything in hand before you start. Surf YouTube for as many references you can watch.
OMG, do NOT get one of those “Phantom” LSD kits. Do some research on them, and run the other way. I installed an MFactory diff into my transmission. Makes putting the power down so much smoother. Quaife would have been my second choice. The OBX LSD might not be that bad of a unit, but I thought they were obsolete? Plus, OBX is the cheap Chinese brand… MFactory have a decent warranty, and they use quality materials.
For clutch, check out Clutchmasters. They have a steel single mass flywheel that will close to stock weight, but single mass. If you don’t want the clutch to be an on-off switch, get their FX100 kit. I have that kit in my stage 2 R55. Soft pedal feel, decent for stop and go traffic, but will still grab and spin the front snow tires into third. Supposedly the 100 kit is still rated for +75% over stock.
i though the valeo clutchs were the usual goto conversion kits for our cars, though I may have gotten confused as that's not hard 😳
could I have a link to that clutch kit please ? i was looking at other more performance oriented clutch kits on flebay just comparing and I came across this kit , I was reading the power rating provided by the kits and stage 1x was good for stock level , stage 2x was like 280hp tops and stage 3x's are rated at 300hp so they say. Are these true? I mean ,I'm sure my car still has its stock clutch and it's never once slipped or lost grip even at 21lb of boost , hardest pull , riding or dropping the clutch , it always performs properly.
am I correct in thinking that due to the lightweight flywheel and design if the 6puck clutch wouldn't this be sayyyy " an on and off style clutch " where it's a pita to engage. I mean I will work with it if it would actually improve shifts and power delivery though , it's not a daily driver car so idk. Should I go with drivibility or longevity and strength ???
There is no general consensus as the what “Stage” numbers actually mean. One companies “Stage 1” could be another companies “Stage 3” and another companies “Stock Replacement”. Those puck-style clutches will be very on-off engagement. If you do any driving in traffic, you’ll hate life pretty quickly.
ClutchMasters is a good group of guys. If you have any questions, they usually answer emails with 24 hours. Tell them what you want out of the clutch, and they can recommend a disc to fit your wants.
As others have said, the front subframe must be dropped. If you're ok with having the car off the ground for a week or two and your current clutch is holding up just fine (no slipping); I'd drop the subframe and transmission to do the LSD and evaluate flywheel/clutch life while it's off. The transmission removal isn't too tough; but having a buddy or a transmission jack will make it much easier. I'd budget a full day just to remove it if you've never done work like this before.
I installed the Valeo single mass flywheel with the Luk clutch on my 04 and love it, especially when directly comparing it to the factory dual mass in my 06 back to back. But if you're looking for 'smoothness' then the factory setup might be better. I like the single mass conversion as it provides more positive engagement, the factory clutch setup feels too 'vague' now.
Great advice guys... I thought about waiting to 2x check the old clutch Condition but with how stiff it's gotten ,it's getting to its last leg I'm sure. I will probably just go oem clutch route , then I know it will feel good when done and if my old clutch I'd holding my cars power a new one should too then. So I guess I've got my clutch decided on. Is there an option of stock clutch with a light weight flywheel? Or does stock clutch ONLY use a standard weight dualmass flywheel ?
now, I'm looking into THESE type lsd's. I like the fact theyre more aggressive grip to the wheel and prevent ( pardon my wording ) axle loading issues where other type lsd's need to have load on each axel , like if I'm cornering and clip a corner and a wheel comes up I want my other wheel to still maintain full traction and power down. I also like that's it's less maintenance..
now ,i will need new axle c clips correct ? I might just look into new axles too while I'm at it as I've had a bad boot on my passengers side for a year now I've never had time to replace , has been barely driven bit still. Too bad the upgraded stronger axles are so ridiculously expensive, unless there's other options I've over looked , paying 1000+ for axles on an under 300hp cooper makes no sense.ive been saving up all fall n winter for this too but unfortunately I can't afford high dollar clutch AND differential, I will have to sway money one way or the other as I have about 1400$ to spend on parts and some put up to pay a helper then too. If its not enough I might just drive it asis this season and save another winter maybe.
tonight i will try watches some install vids and search for install threads from former members..
Last edited by MiniManAdam; Feb 16, 2022 at 04:38 PM.
i though the valeo clutchs were the usual goto conversion kits for our cars, though I may have gotten confused as that's not hard 😳
Valeo is the goto for stock, non-performance oriented replacement.
Originally Posted by MiniManAdam
Great advice guys... I thought about waiting to 2x check the old clutch Condition but with how stiff it's gotten ,it's getting to its last leg I'm sure. I will probably just go oem clutch route , then I know it will feel good when done and if my old clutch I'd holding my cars power a new one should too then. So I guess I've got my clutch decided on. Is there an option of stock clutch with a light weight flywheel? Or does stock clutch ONLY use a standard weight dualmass flywheel ?
now, I'm looking into THESE type lsd's. I like the fact theyre more aggressive grip to the wheel and prevent ( pardon my wording ) axle loading issues where other type lsd's need to have load on each axel , like if I'm cornering and clip a corner and a wheel comes up I want my other wheel to still maintain full traction and power down. I also like that's it's less maintenance..
now ,i will need new axle c clips correct ? I might just look into new axles too while I'm at it as I've had a bad boot on my passengers side for a year now I've never had time to replace , has been barely driven bit still. Too bad the upgraded stronger axles are so ridiculously expensive, unless there's other options I've over looked , paying 1000+ for axles on an under 300hp cooper makes no sense.ive been saving up all fall n winter for this too but unfortunately I can't afford high dollar clutch AND differential, I will have to sway money one way or the other as I have about 1400$ to spend on parts and some put up to pay a helper then too. If its not enough I might just drive it asis this season and save another winter maybe.
tonight i will try watches some install vids and search for install threads from former members..
I still ran my original OEM clutch for a long time with my Sprintex at 250WHP+, but yes, if your doing the swap anyway, might as well upgrade.
Also, I still run factory replacement axles as well, I'd really only worry about "good" axles if you were running super sticky tires and doing hard launches. With axles, traction is your enemy on our cars, most street use just doesn't "require" them.
Valeo is the goto for stock, non-performance oriented replacement.
I still ran my original OEM clutch for a long time with my Sprintex at 250WHP+, but yes, if your doing the swap anyway, might as well upgrade.
Also, I still run factory replacement axles as well, I'd really only worry about "good" axles if you were running super sticky tires and doing hard launches. With axles, traction is your enemy on our cars, most street use just doesn't "require" them.
The mechanical LSD are slightly more reliable than the clutch style, but the advantage of the clutch style is power transfer when one wheel goes airborne. The Quaife is probably the best of the mechanical styles currently available for the Mini. Use some good gear oil, and change it every 30-50k miles, and a mechanical LSD will treat you well for 90% of the time.
Dang , that ecs one is tempting but I want a mechanical style not clutch style AND the blackline seller I been talking with and they're willing to give me a nice deal on it also..
In your opinion, which one would power both wheels MORE . Idc about smooth power delivery I just want it all down n used. Lol I wouldn't care even if my car hopped bait in full lock like trucks do with their diffs locked.
remember guys , this IS NOT my dailydriver.. it's my weekend warrior.. only time I drive it on the street is just to cruise ( funnest best stress release for me ) and drive it to n from car shows. It still is planned on being a track car , I just haven't found a group or club to join yet that's local..
That MFactory diff is mechanical, not clutch style. That's the one I have in my car.
A mechanical LSD will spin both wheels, and in low traction corners, it will push because both wheels will start spinning. With good traction, it will take off like a rocket from a traffic signal. Before the LSD, it would spin one of the wheels and I'd have to let off to get traction.
That MFactory diff is mechanical, not clutch style. That's the one I have in my car.
A mechanical LSD will spin both wheels, and in low traction corners, it will push because both wheels will start spinning. With good traction, it will take off like a rocket from a traffic signal. Before the LSD, it would spin one of the wheels and I'd have to let off to get traction.
ooooooo it is a mechanical huh...I think I might get that one then.. plus I prefer to support the vendors.. lol maybe I can find a coupon or discount code or something.. its alittle more than i was hoping to spend but i dont mind spending more to get something good and proven good. Especially when I can get 1st hand , person feedback from someone using that exact product...
I emailed ecs ,i will probably go with that one just because..
could you please tell me all you need along with it , like what bearing set you used and stuff..this is probably gonna be more expensive than I thought so I might have to start part collecting until I have eeeeeeeverything needed to do the job. Down to fluid n gaskets even..
I had a whole laundry list of things I purchased for the job, everything from the crank seal, flywheel bolts, diff, clutch, sealant, etc. My list might have been slightly different from your, since 2nd gen compared to 1st gen... Start going through the procedures, and becoming familiar with the task. Then, go through the parts diagrams on RealOEM.com, and collect part numbers for components that will get touched during the operation. You will need the correct sealant for the gearbox. Make sure you get one that is suitable for use with gear oils. Also, I chose to replace the flywheel bolts with ARP hardware.
I had a whole laundry list of things I purchased for the job, everything from the crank seal, flywheel bolts, diff, clutch, sealant, etc. My list might have been slightly different from your, since 2nd gen compared to 1st gen... Start going through the procedures, and becoming familiar with the task. Then, go through the parts diagrams on RealOEM.com, and collect part numbers for components that will get touched during the operation. You will need the correct sealant for the gearbox. Make sure you get one that is suitable for use with gear oils. Also, I chose to replace the flywheel bolts with ARP hardware.
good idea. I watched a YouTube video last night but it was just the separating of the trans and install of the lsd , which seemed easy enough.. I could forsee me getting the ttans dropped in a few hours at max. Lol i put my car in service mode SO many times now I leave it setup to easily be taken back down lol. I legit can get it in COMPLETE front end service mode in under 15min..
I'm gonna have to really think about the ecs vs the ebay one. I'd like to get the ecs one buuuut they say they only warranty if it's installed professionally and even then issues need to be addressed to mfactory and how they describe the warranty is very very vague so that worries me kinda. The ebay one seller offered 3yr full warranty with no exception so that's got me thinking now.. I'm going to look more into this mfactory unit
Last edited by MiniManAdam; Feb 17, 2022 at 04:15 PM.
Valeo is the goto for stock, non-performance oriented replacement.
I still ran my original OEM clutch for a long time with my Sprintex at 250WHP+, but yes, if your doing the swap anyway, might as well upgrade.
Also, I still run factory replacement axles as well, I'd really only worry about "good" axles if you were running super sticky tires and doing hard launches. With axles, traction is your enemy on our cars, most street use just doesn't "require" them.
whats your thoughts on this clutch and flywheel ? I like the fact tge clutch is upgraded material BUT yet it still retains the dualmass flywheel.. I been reading about chattering and stuff when switching to single mass flywheel wheel so I think i wanna retain the dualmass , plus then it's a direct install and less worrying . Remember, I'm cheap so I know there's better options but I always try and find a good middle ground. If this kits no good could you point me in direction of a good , better than stock kit plz.
Buuuuuut does a 1x piece lightweight flywheel really actually help our cars Rev up faster ???? If so I might have to go that route then. I ALWAYS felt like these cars Rev too slow and I would sacrifice driveability for funability..
I run the os 1.5 and love it. Wouldn’t have it any other way. Also run the os twin. Again only other option would be the 9 puck sprung fx400 have to call to get the 9 puck vs the 8. Can r@r the trans clutch lsd in 6ish hours.
with this diff , what's its max lock % and from a stop , clutch drop , will it give an even 2x wheel spin ?
It’s a mechanical LSD, so there is no max lock.
Also, not sure I’d go with a dirt cheap clutch and flywheel kit off eBay…. As involved as it is to get the gearbox out, not something I’d want to do twice in that same month. But, hey, it’s you! Same with the diff swap. The eBay option might save you a couple bucks no claim to have a better warranty, but what happens if you need to use that warranty? Your dead on the road, and now you have to swap out the diff, again.
Even though the MFactory diff warranty says must have pro install, you don’t just offer a lifetime warranty without knowing your product is designed and built not to need it.
