tbd

 

I agree. Many of the accessories that companies such a Moss are putting out are just plain cheezy and more suitable for an East L.A. pseudo-lowrider pickup truck than a MINI. Stick-on grills, chrome accent at every edge, fake carbon fiber - YECK! And the ricer crap really leaves me cold - goofy carbon parts, tiny mirrors-on-a-stick, coffee-can exhausts, body kits that transform a MINI into a vacuum cleaner look alike - fugidabowdit. And the Pimp "bling-bling" (I absolutely DETEST that term) look can stay with the ghetto-sled Escalades where it belongs.

 

Mmmmm... MINImotor's well crafted essay seems to center more on whether the MINI engineering has become stagnant... The MINI "Scene"?... We're as hot as ever!

Dogspeed.

 

One area that is wide open for growth is in road racing. NASA and BMWCC have tried to get a spec mini series started without the success that miata and honda have enjoyed.

 

I believe some of the issues revolve around the MINIs relatively low sales numbers as compared to honda and other tuneable cars. If I were in the business of making after market parts the MINI would be low on my priority list because it would make more sense to go after a market that is larger. I personally don't want to see the MINI market get larger ,then my MINI will be like owning a honda. I guess with that comes the fact that I will pay twice as much for performance parts and there will be fewer choices out there. Disclaimer... just my opinion .

 

Sorry, but I really don't understand the premise of your "essay". "Push forward and upward?" Why? Seems like you may be projecting some kind of deep-seated dissatisfaction on your Mini. It's a great car, and will always be. Why does it need to change?

 

tbd

 

I got front mud flaps,an Elbow Landing Device,04 bonnet vents,and next week 05 outside door handles,
does that count as pushing forward and upward

 

My personal take from my corner of the world...

I'm a bit of a tinkerer in most other areas, but I must say, having spec'ced my Cooper (yes, a Cooper) out carefully, I've been scratching my head over and over thinking of something to tinker with on the car. More power?...no need for it. Better handling?...for what purpose. Personal statement?...did that when I ordered. I have no graphics, no added chrome, no body kit, just a shorty antenna and a brake light mod. The car is exactly what I want.

So, the car is good. If I'm antsy, I have only to look in the mirror. To me its a bit of a personal exercise to understand exactly what I want that is "out there" somewhere. Upon examinaton, I'm becoming more and more comfortable with just motoring about and enjoying the car "as is." It's splendid. I might fancy myself some ultra-cool-racer-guy, but in the end, I have to admit that I'm just that funny-old-man-puttering-about-in-cute- little-MINI. I do mostly milk runs after all. This really doesn't bother me because it, too, is a very Mini "thing" after all.

The local club scene is great and probably will be for the foreseeable future. Maybe the newness of it all has worn off a bit, but that doesn't make it any less sweet in my experience, just different.

I hope and believe that our MINI-enthusiasm will enjoy the same longevity, in some form, as the classic Mini has. Things may not be as intense as they once were when the new MINI hit the showrooms or starred in the Italian Job, but as long as the car is good and continues to generate smiles for it's drivers, the enthusiasm will live.

Again, my opinion...

 

Tinker away, mon frere! Seems like any "stagnation" you're sensing would be due to your own lack of inspiration/initiative/imagination, no? Just remember that, decades from now, others will curse the aftermath of your insatiable need to modify.

 

I like your opinion,and I share it with you

 

I think it's too soon for a road racing series - Minis are just too expensive to race at this point. You're not going to even get a Cooper for much less than $20k, then you'll spend another $10k getting it track ready, and you could seriously destroy the car completely on your first outing.

You can build a spec Miata for $10k (at least they say that, but I bet a realistic figure is more like $15k) - so for half the price of a racing Mini, you could be driving a RWD car with more power, and big fields. Sounds like a no-brainer to me!

You can get a race-ready Formula V for probably $5k, and there you have a single seat, open wheeled car. Formula Fords can be purchased all day long for less than $30k, and that's real race car.

So at this point, I don't see any kind of Mini series going anywhere. In 5-10 years, when you can put a Mini on the track for $15k or so, then a Mini series might have a shot. It'd sure be cool to see a track full of Minis like those pics of spec miata fields!

 

The Mini is an expensive car. I was at the Honda dealer having another car serviced last week, and they had a really nice Honda Accord coupe with lots of stuff in it, sunroof and all. The sticker was about what I paid for my Mini. To void the warranty on a car and trick it out costs a lot, and risks a lot. I see people in their twenties who still live rent-free at home, have no wife or kids or savings, spending all their available funds throwing them into a bottomless pit. With the economy in the shape it is in, I don't wonder that there is little investment in making speed parts for Mini's. Most people start with a 1995 Civic or Acura and put enough in it to equal a new MCS. If you start with an MCS, you wind up spending enough to buy a Corvette, but own a car with practically no resale value. You can't insure it for what it is worth, you can't sell it to recoup your investment.


I assure you that in ten years or so, when you can pick up a nice Mini for 5 grand, there will be speed parts galore for it. Unless by then the tricksters will be electricians hopping up those hybrid Hondas and Toyotas! Those bigger electric motors will be bitchin' so study those slot cars now!

 

I think it's a the relatively low volume production nature of the car that deters aftermarket firms from developing more tuner parts. To price parts aggressively, economy of scale is needed. With only 25-30,000 Mini's imported to the states each year, it pales to Honda Civic volume. Many Mini owners also learn a hard lesson when selling: The majority of used car buyers want to purchase a car as stock as possible. Modifications signal racing/abuse to many potential buyers when they see CAI/Exhaust/chip/pulley installed on a used Mini. The money spent in aftermarket parts is usually money down the drain when it comes to resale.

The Mini will be facing new competition soon with the following new models coming out soon at a $20,000 price point:

-Pontiac Solstice
-Saturn Sky
-All new Mazda Miata


SOLSTICE

SKY

MIATA

 

When something is new, change is fast, as it get older, it slows down.

Usually, something new starts with pioneers, both on the customer and vendor sides. The customers ("early adoptors" in biz speak), like the new, and the innovative, and are willing to change things a bit to get what they want if it's early in the cycle. The vendors are the experimentors who commercialize on their special knowledge early in a new product cycle. As the technology/product/innovation becomes a more mature product, some of the early adoptors move on, or are happy with the changes, or move on to more extensive/expensive stuff (read standard CAI to M7 AGS, or twinchargers). What was expensive gets cheaper as the target market increases in size, and economies of scale kick in. But then competitive forces start to squeeze some of the smaller, craft houses, and consolidation occurs (RDR + Helix), other larger players mod existing product lines to the model (Hotchkis and the like) and enter a smaller market with less barrier to entry, and things start to look more "boring". this is where we are now, and was the lament of the original post.

So, what do industries do? HP went from instruments to computers to printers. Pretty soon, people will know apple as the iPod company, not the iMac company. Look at the changes to a car model (like my dearly beloved Mustang) all to seem (or really be) innovative with what is by all descriptions an old product.

Nothing will ever change this, and it's not because there are many or few Minis.

As far as what to do about it, keep inovating yourself! While we may all ***** about the end of the "cowboy days", it's really US, the Mini market, that is changing.......


Or Not.....

 

Me too JDS! :smile: :smile: It must be something about those '03 IB/W, silver holeys...

 

I don't agree with the economies of scale thought. Yes for the US it is quite small, but this is one of the most globally pervasive cars right now. And globally it is quite large. The problem is that most of these tuning companies are quite small and therefore don't have any global operations. I think overall the tuning scene is quite lame anyway. Tell me what kind of engine the car has on it and a couple of stats, and I can tell you what is available for the car. It is just the same old products rebadged or slightly reconfigured to fit on the style of car. The same type of parts for a Honda Civic are available for the Mini. Chrome this, chrome that, exhaust, intake.... There really is not as much individuality as the aftermarket companies would have you believe. In fact, I would venture to say, keeping the car stock at this point is more a statement of individuality than putting an intake or exhaust or pulley that everyone else has.

 

We were really somethin', back in the day (2002/2003).

I was still a pending motorer, but shucks I felt cool.

But wait, some of those cars rattled, stumbled, yo-yo'd, and so forth
(I may have said this before, but... you can always tell the "pioneers" - by all the arrows sticking out of their backs!).

Now Fast-Forward to 2005 - isn't it fair to say that several of the early "bugs" are (by chance or by design) gone? Isn't the product, the car, BETTER now?

I will be picking up my '05 S this week (today??), and it's already "so 20 minutes ago?" Heck, I can't win ,

Tatt

 

One "problem" that the MINI shares with many of the new cars out on the market these days is that it is a solid piece of machinery right out of the box. A friend of mine who has a new Miata and I were talking the other day, and we both noted that these are the first cars we have gotten that really don't need any aftermarket stuff to improve things. Hence, most of the aftermarket stuff available is just over-priced doo-dads that serve no real purpose.

As for racing, the MINI is just not competitive in SSC - too heavy and underpowered compared to some of the competition. Maybe in a few years when it becomes eleigible for Improved Touring (presumabaly in ITB), and some well-worn MINIs become available on the used car market, it will have a reasonable weight assigned to it (maybe around 2,300 pounds or so with driver) and it will be competitive. Spec Miata is flourishing (if ANY road racing can be considered as "flourishing" these days...) because a 10 year old Miata can be had for a few grand; add a few grand more for the cage, tires, and suspension components and you have a competitive race car for less than $10K. Similarly, $10K will buy you a VERY competitive ITC or ITB car, or FV car, as was mentioned. Time willl tell with the MINI.

 

tbd

 

that of all the cars sold, only a small percentage get modified. Many stay stock. So maybe 10% of the world's sales are going to be modified. But in general, economies of scale are not an absolute metric, but a relative one. What I mean by that is you don't have to increase the volume produced too much to save on your fixed costs per unit.

As far as the comments about aftermarket crap, I agree and don't. Let's face it, more cup holders will be sold for Minis than Twinchargers, that just the nature of the parts and the markets. But the Twincharger is also an example of something that's not perfectly unique, but pretty Mini focused.

I'm also not surprised that many mods offered are similar. After all, it's just a car, and there have been lots of cars. How to make power is known, and lots of the car companies share suppliers (like of our supercharger). There really won't be any special magic to make a mini faster, quicker or to handle better, but some of the bolting locations and mating surfaces will have to be mini specific.

As far as not needing any mods, that depends on perspective. I'd say that the cars are getting so much better that a smaller and smaller percentage of the market is finding in needed to do modifications. But as someone who's added power to the car, I can say I love it and would never, never go back. Just having the motor usefull from 1800 rpm, instead of almost 3k, and no stalling at starts when the AC is on for my wife! Good, yes, Damn good, for sure, perfect? Nope.

Once again, this is just product evolution plain and simple. did anyone see that the iPod, not the iMac, drove apple to record profits? Will that cute little CD sized low cost iMac "save" apples' computer arm? Not even close if the iPod market grows soo much faster than the computer side..... No matter how new the iMac was, apples' market share for computers just keeps dropping.

Matt

 

Damn, I showed up late, and all of MINImotor's posts have been self edited... what is up with that dude?

jc

 

And for my own curiousity what does tbd mean? I am kind of dumb when it come to the acronyms thing (and to think I work for NASA the leader in that area...OK maybe the fed gov does it better :smile: ).

 

I think tbd = to be determined. :smile:


Clover

 

I bought my 2005 MINI Cooper S because I liked it. I liked the looks, the size, the fit and finish, and most importantly the way it drove. The car fits what I wanted. It does what I want from a car... it gives me a grin every mile I drive in it. The car is a joy to drive.

I did not buy the car because it was "the cool thing" or "in". I did not buy the car to impress someone else. All that stuff is vaporous and a total waste of time chasing ever moving trends. If it makes you feel better that the car is "in" then, expect to be disappointed when it is no longer trendy.

The only thing bad about not being "in" is it would hurt the resale value. This in not going to bother me as I don't plane to sell it any time soon. I would only consider selling my MCS if BMW introduced a good all-wheel drive version. I doubt that I would do it even then The car fits my needs and it makes me smile when I drive it.

Enjoy what you have and don't worry about the rest.