Hello all,

Am perhaps considering a camshaft install for my 2004 mcs i purchased. Been working at her and swapping parts slowly as funds come in.
so far have put new ati o% crank and 16% supercharger pulley. Also have upgraded intercooler and have catback exhaust. Now I am happy with the power range being moved down in the rpm range, but I am still contemplating a camshaft upgrade. I only do spirited driving and am not really ever at redline. I have narrowed down the camshafts to the catcam 461 or rmw 250. I am aware that both will require a tune and injectors . My question is for those who have had either cam ,which of two cams would play nicer with the 16% pulley , which one would be better in keeping the power range more for a fun driving experience for the daily drive or spirited street driving.

Also Newbie question, just trying to learn, but I noticed a few companies offering the catcam 461 . Now are all catcams 461 the same grind from all vendors or do some vendors get special grinds? For example would the catcam 461 from orranje be the same exact grind and specs as catcam from 1320?

Thanks a million

dominator or ph2 most likely the same cam are great for the street, nice mid but still falls off on top like the stock cam

I have no experience with the 461

I would recommend adrian for the injector/cam tune, he's cheap and responsive, use the money you save to get a wideband too

Before you do the cam, I would suggest that you invest in a good, high quality header to go with that cat-back exhaust, preferably one with a cat that will survive the high exhaust temps of a supercharged engine. Then, when you do the cam and injectors, the tune will give you optimum results.

Thanks for the info. i was actually looking at the ph1/2, but I feel like it may disappoint me , so i decided against it. The rmw seems like a nice compromise, but the newman seems a better pricepoint. I don't live at high rpm but it is nice to have some go when I need it . Wasnt aware that it fell off on top of higher rmp, thanks

thanks for the recommendation for Adrian, have pmd him already. Gonna wait for his reply

I was trying to stay away from a header upgrade and keep it stock as my cylinder head is stock . Some people have said they lost some torque at lower and mid rpm. Like.i said.i don't live in the higher rpm range so not sure if the cost of header and install is worth it on my build . I appreciate your opinion. I get it will help to move the air out of engine quicker , but are the gains worth it in my case if I have no plans for a bvh or race cam? Was under the impression that stock header was quite good for some power increase from stock, but I may be wrong.

The P2 is the Dominator Cam, just as is the P3/4 Cam is the RMW Grand Am Cam.

I currently have the Grand Am AKA P3/4 cam and am looking to move to the Catcam 469 as I only hear raving reviews of the Carcam.

Use a 4:2:1 header if you do not want to give up midrange, I like this one I have it on one of my cars. Power will fall off on top but it pairs well with a PH2 / Dominator

It also has the o2 bung in front of the flex pipe, this is critical on R53 as air leaks will mess with the tune

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/xfo-hsmini01

Just installed the 461 with ENDYN BVH and RMW long tube race header:


Cat Cams 1302461, ENDYN BVH, RMW Long Tube race header

It was an upgrade from the stock MINI cam - tune was close but needed a bit of fuel up top, and even more fuel down low (3000 - 5000)
I may add another half degree of timing

how much timing are you running now, and are you logging knock/spark ?

~24 degrees @ WOT @ 7000 rpm

Monitor knock, timing, AFR, and per cylinder EGT

I think another degree of timing is doable. I'll see how things go this weekend @ CotA. I have a 40min race Sunday when the ambient will be mid 90s. I could add more timing to up the dyno number, but that is counter productive if the timing gets pulled during the race. I want the MINI to finish a race with close as possible to dyno HP numbers.

Oh wow that's not very aggressive at all I run 31° with about the same mods and meth

Thanks for the link and suggestion ! The 4-2-1 header is a consideration, but i am not sure yet. I guess it would help to move the hot gases out quicker but in reality how much more will it move if i have a stock head with stock size exhaust ports? did u find you lost some torque when u made the move from the stock one ? also did it fit nicely from the box or did it have to be modified to fit ?

Thanks for the info. Yes it seems the catcam is a good cam with good reviews , but for my build i think the 469 is too aggressive . I am aiming at the 461 , but cant seem to get someone with it on their car give their feedback yet .

those are some nice numbers ! Thanks for the graph.

Are the cams sold by different vendors the same grinds or are they cut different with different specs?

So for example a catcam 469 sold by ecs tuning would be the same exact cam ( specs and grind) as the catcam 469 sold by 1320?

I know this may be a newbie question, but would like to clarify .

one of my cars has a stock head, the header helps a lot. Header, cam, injectors, pulley and tune are the best hp/$ you can do on these cars

i welded it on myself, not too hard and these use a donut I prefer them over the shitty flex pipes

Be careful with the header and the state that you live in.
Also, be ready to increase the fuel with a good header, and do it quickly, the engine will not be happy running overly lean.
That said, yes, the 4-2-1 header design does make power..."even" with a stock head. It will also be a benefit with whatever cam that you end up with. Ignition timing equals power AND mileage. Best to use a chassis dyno to get the most out of what you are doing.
I'd buy a 4-2-1 header if I did live in good ol California. Hell, I got busted for adding a boost gauge a few weeks back..!

Mike

did u find the noise increased quite a bit compared to the stock manifold? Didnt really want to spend on a manifold , but if it helps to tie the upgrades in toguether properly , then i will have to consider . This one seems fair priced, just wondering on how long it will last befor welds crack , etc I have a magnaflow from the catback ( previous owner installed) and to be honest it is loud enough for me and would not want to increase the level of noise much more . It also already had quite a bit of drone .

Did u weld it directly to you oem cat or did u upgrade to a higher flow cat?

Wow for a boost guage! Im up in toronto, canada and there is quite a bit u can get away with as long as it isnt way out of the box., My only issue with a header is that my exhaust ( magnaflow by other owner ) is already loud enough. It sounds nice enough for me , but didnt want to make things louder and attract more attention . That is the main reason i was debating in spending the money on it . , pluAlso with my lack of previous knowledge on these cars i was under the impression i would lose torque and midrange , also i dont drive at high rpm often.

I went rather conservative and just bought a Newman PH2 from Orranje with their black friday sale for $250 shipped.

I have a feeling it will suit my driving style but you never really know until living with it, so I may end up going hotter down the road if I feel like I need a more aggro profile.

One thing though of which I plead ignorance is the importance of timing and would love some help in that department.

I was just planning on installing at the regular "reference position" or whatever at 12 o'clock because technical info seems lacking.

I'm an oldguy used to adjusting ignition timing with a strobing light and flywheel markings, don't really have a good grasp of how to do it on an R53.

Is it as simple as using a reference disc during the install?



What is stock timing?

Would it be beneficial to adjust degrees outside of factory spec on what is essentially a spirited daily driver?

Any help much appreciated.

Also,
while bouncing around looking at the various cams available,
came across this *scratch&dent* CatCam 469 for a nice bargain if anyone may be interested:

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-cat-cams...xoCbq4QAvD_BwE

$300 is a good deal.

Timing advance is done in the tune

You'll need an adjustable cam gear if you plan to change the cam timing.

Okay, now I feel like an idiot LOL

Makes total sense.

Now I know how my dad felt when he asked me for help diagnosing fuel injection because he was a carb guy and FI was like black magic to him haha modern tuning to me is like black magic.

I am totally illiterate with computer stuff and intimidated by it honestly.

Don't feel like too much of an idiot. Degreeing cams is a thing - and it does adjust cam timing - just not ignition timing. You even have a photo of a degree wheel there.