R50/R53 :: Hatch Talk (2002-2006) Cooper (R50) and Cooper S (R53) hatchback discussion.

R50/53 Traction issues

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Old Dec 1, 2020 | 07:06 AM
  #1  
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Traction issues

Looking to go wider on the tires... its got 195-50(?)-16's on it now and with the open diff, suffers from lack of grip. I eventually want to go to a Konig wheel but they jumped from 15" to 17" on the wheel diameter for the one I'm looking at. I want a wider tire, 205, maybe a 215 if I can get the right tire/wheel combo. Also, wet weather traction needs to be good since being in the Pac North West it is wet... a lot... Brakes suck, they need help but are OK for now but would like to do the cheaper R56 upgrade when the time comes.

So...

Is there a recommended tire setup that would get both good wet & dry traction?

Can the R56 brake upgrade fit with a 15" wheel?

How wide of a wheel do I need to get out to a 215 tire?

The open diff will stay that way until I need to swap the clutch... then a posi unit will go in so I have to live with the trans as is for now.

https://konigwheels.com/wheels/flow-...eels/hexaform/



 
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Old Dec 1, 2020 | 07:25 AM
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From: SoCal
Simple, Google is your friend -

Here's one simple bit of good sizing info -
https://www.tyresizecalculator.com/c...rim-size-chart

And a calculator to experiment with -
https://tiresize.com/calculator/

Again, just open the computer, you'll find all kinds of good info.
Same with the wheels. Have you gone into the Konig web site ? Some wheels may not be made in the size that you want. You may...have to "settle" on your second choice. Try "Tire Rack", they have all kinds of things to look at with tire and wheel choices.

Mike
 
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Old Dec 1, 2020 | 07:25 AM
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I run 215/45x17s on my '04 MC40. The rims are two-piece BBS R90s that came on the MC40s. I occasionally have a rubbing issue on the rear fender liner (inside of tire) but it's very minor. I also run Federal SS545 tires which have good dry traction. I don't voluntarily drive in the rain but haven't noticed any problems with wet traction.
 
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Old Dec 1, 2020 | 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by OCR
Simple, Google is your friend -

Here's one simple bit of good sizing info -
https://www.tyresizecalculator.com/c...rim-size-chart

And a calculator to experiment with -
https://tiresize.com/calculator/

Again, just open the computer, you'll find all kinds of good info.
Same with the wheels. Have you gone into the Konig web site ? Some wheels may not be made in the size that you want. You may...have to "settle" on your second choice. Try "Tire Rack", they have all kinds of things to look at with tire and wheel choices.

Mike
Understood google is my friend but google does not answer with a live person who has experienced it. My preference is to interact with society which can be thought provoking. Yes, I've gone to the Konig website, that's how I was able to post that link to the wheel... which is how I know I cant stick with the 16" tire, they don't make the wheel in that diameter. Looking for experiences with a good wet/dry tire that is not a "review" on a website. Preference is to talk with enthusiasts.
 
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Old Dec 1, 2020 | 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by cooper48
I run 215/45x17s on my '04 MC40. The rims are two-piece BBS R90s that came on the MC40s. I occasionally have a rubbing issue on the rear fender liner (inside of tire) but it's very minor. I also run Federal SS545 tires which have good dry traction. I don't voluntarily drive in the rain but haven't noticed any problems with wet traction.
Looks like that SS545 might be obsolete, not finding it on the Federal website. The SS535 is there but no specs "Contact Federal..."

ON your rubbing, whats the rear suspension setup?
 
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Old Dec 1, 2020 | 08:34 AM
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I got OZ 17x7 Alleggerita HLT wheels and 215/40 tires. With Kumho V700 tires they weigh 34 lb each or 8 lb less than the prior aftermarket wheel and 205 tires I had.
.
 
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Old Dec 1, 2020 | 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Grand-Cayman
I got OZ 17x7 Alleggerita HLT wheels and 215/40 tires. With Kumho V700 tires they weigh 34 lb each or 8 lb less than the prior aftermarket wheel and 205 tires I had.
.
Nice build! That has to be the cleanest floor pan I have ever seen in a car lol, do you require people to remove shoes AND socks AND put on a clean pair lol?

yeah OZ makes some pretty light wheels! Do your 215's rub?
 
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Old Dec 1, 2020 | 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by steve05ram360
Nice build! That has to be the cleanest floor pan I have ever seen in a car lol, do you require people to remove shoes AND socks AND put on a clean pair lol?

yeah OZ makes some pretty light wheels! Do your 215's rub?
Haha, yes, I carry booties that everyone has to wear over their shoes! Actually, the booties pair well with a COVID mask these days

I am almost positive I do not have a rub. I have not looked in excruciating detail, but I got that size after convincing myself by reading other posts there would not be any rubbing
 
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Old Dec 1, 2020 | 02:17 PM
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My MC40 came with the Sport Suspension but it was HARSH (20% stiffer than S). And when I say harsh, I mean aggravating, ball crushing and almost undrivable. I swapped front and rear to new standard S struts/springs. I've also replaced the rear sway bar bushings (rubber on stock sway bar), switched to poly bushings in the rear lateral arms and trailing arms and replaced the end links. But, in the end, it's a standard S suspension. The rubbing on the rear fender liner is extremely minor (from the 215s) and is only noticeable when the rear wheel is removed. The suspension is still stiff and handles/drives well but not completely obnoxious like the Sport was. My bad on the Federals definition -- they as SS595s (not SS545s) and available for a reasonable price at Walmart.
 
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Old Dec 1, 2020 | 03:16 PM
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These should fix any traction issues I had


 
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Old Dec 2, 2020 | 05:40 AM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by OCR
Simple, Google is your friend -

Here's one simple bit of good sizing info -
https://www.tyresizecalculator.com/c...rim-size-chart

And a calculator to experiment with -
https://tiresize.com/calculator/

Again, just open the computer, you'll find all kinds of good info.
Same with the wheels. Have you gone into the Konig web site ? Some wheels may not be made in the size that you want. You may...have to "settle" on your second choice. Try "Tire Rack", they have all kinds of things to look at with tire and wheel choices.

Mike

Story time... Great example of why I like to chat with people, fellow motorheads... I am working to tune my son-in-laws diesel Ram right now and we ran into a problem... no matter what I do to the injection timing certain parts of the tune refuse to stop rattling. (similar to pinging but on a diesel)... The problem with his truck appears to be affecting all the cylinders and not just 1. If it were one then the focus would be injector, compression etc... anything tied to the one cylinder performance. But, with his being across all cylinders it points to the fuel system. So we're discussing what affects the entire fuel system... source fuel pressure to injection pump, fuel control at the injection pump, rail pressure sensor, pressure relief valve and the cascade valve on the injection pump. The 2 valves tend to leak over time and with high pressure usage, meaning 21~23k psi spikes. If your at say 21~22k psi in a steady state and let off the throttle, the pressure relief valve is there to protect the system and will bleed off the excess pressure. That valve will fail over time and just leak. Same goes for the cascade valve.

I suspect he has a leak and we discuss just swapping those 2 valves since they are known problems. Additionally I suggested we do a new cam & crank sensor since they are cheap. During the conversation it occurs to me that there might be a way of collecting data via HP Tuners to support the thought that one or both of those valves is bad by looking at the fuel control actuator (aka FCA) at the injection pump and comparing it to my Ram's fuel system. Same rail pressure should yield similar behaviors on both trucks.

Had I not had that discussion with him I might not have ever thought to look at it from that perspective. Still dont know if it will give any value back into the problem we are debugging but it is worth a shot to take a look and costs nothing but the 1/2 gallon of fuel to go data log it on each truck. I have seen guys throw $ at trucks trying to fix stuff and end up just putting fresh parts in w/o fixing the problem. Debug first, have a solid reason for swapping a part. In the case of my SIL's truck, one valve is easy to see if its leaking but, once you crack the banjo bolt to check, you need new washers to reseal it so your still into a trip to Cummins to get those washers. The other valve there is no way of determining if it is leaking w/o pulling it so it might as well be swapped since it is cheap.

Anyways, food for thought...




 
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Old Dec 2, 2020 | 06:15 AM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by cooper48
My MC40 came with the Sport Suspension but it was HARSH (20% stiffer than S). And when I say harsh, I mean aggravating, ball crushing and almost undrivable. I swapped front and rear to new standard S struts/springs. I've also replaced the rear sway bar bushings (rubber on stock sway bar), switched to poly bushings in the rear lateral arms and trailing arms and replaced the end links. But, in the end, it's a standard S suspension. The rubbing on the rear fender liner is extremely minor (from the 215s) and is only noticeable when the rear wheel is removed. The suspension is still stiff and handles/drives well but not completely obnoxious like the Sport was. My bad on the Federals definition -- they as SS595s (not SS545s) and available for a reasonable price at Walmart.
Thanks for the details! SS595's.. got it.
 
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Old Dec 2, 2020 | 06:16 AM
  #13  
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Originally Posted by MiniManAdam
These should fix any traction issues I had
I bet those are fun in the rain!
 
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