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I would like to clarify things. There is not a minor software change when you switch from 320cc injectors at 380cc injectors and smaller SC pulley.We are talking about an important change of sw in order to be able to highlight the hardware changes.I'll just explain with only 3 important maps, mean Fuel at full load, Spark base and Preinjection time.If you look at the X axis you can see the difference in the amount of air caused by the reduced pulley.Preinjection time is different.Spark advance value are also different.Of course there are many other differences.
My example is for US software, cars manufactured after 2005, ECU MS5150.
1.Full load enrich JCW
2.Full load enrich R53
3.Preinjection JCW
4.Preinjection R53
5.Base spark JCW
6Base spark R53
No, again the stock map in the ECU is tuned from the factory, very rich, helps engines survive "all types" of owners.
If you're unsure or curious after doing the injectors, or any mods, you can still read the plugs, since you know how to do it, they still give you the same info, ECU controlled engine or not.
only issue is getting to them before the closed loop tuning starts to effect them again.
This is all making sense to me now. After reading "lots" about tunes it wasn't clear to me how much the stock ECM could adjust for. With the mild mods I'm planning it appears I may never need a "tune". That being said there's a shop about 5 miles from my house with a dyno and a good reputation so that may change after a test and I see the real world numbers. Then who knows? My inner hot-rodder may come out.
As for reading plugs, I always went to a road near me that was slightly up hill and went full throttle in 2nd or 3rd gear then at max RPM pull in the clutch and turned off the engine at at same time, sort of a full throttle run under a load, [similar to a dyno pull I think] There was an area to pull off right there and I would pull the plugs to check them. This was mostly with vintage motorcycles, Triumph and BMW when checking carb jetting. Seemed to work well for reading the plugs, the biggest concern being too lean.
To be honest I've never tried it with a high energy ignition system but I assume it would be the same thing.
Thanks to everyone for their help. I believe my questions have been answered.
So.
What I'm getting is the stock mapped ECU can adjust for my 15% pulley, cold air and one ball. Is it also true is can adjust for 380cc injectors? And would 380cc injectors be a good first step along with an less restrictive exhaust?
That being said it sounds like I should wait on any of this until at least injectors and a proper exhaust.
I'm really hoping I don't hate the sound of the one ball or the exhaust will be coming sooner rather than later. Not interested in "pops" [which, sorry to say but to this old guy sounds like an immature attraction] nor do I want "drone". A deeper note and less back pressure seems ideal.
Another question comes to mind. Would a less restrictive exhaust lean the engine out too much or can the stock ECU compensate for that as well? Or would injectors and exhaust at the same time be better?
In my carb jet and reading plugs days leaning an engine out too much could be and sometimes was the kiss of death for an engine.
Thanks everyone for all the help, learning as I go.
Robj
I have more mods than you and mine has been just fine on stock tune but not at full potential is the thing .
As for reading plugs, I always went to a road near me that was slightly up hill and went full throttle in 2nd or 3rd gear then at max RPM pull in the clutch and turned off the engine at at same time, sort of a full throttle run under a load, [similar to a dyno pull I think] There was an area to pull off right there and I would pull the plugs to check them. This was mostly with vintage motorcycles, Triumph and BMW when checking carb jetting. Seemed to work well for reading the plugs, the biggest concern being too lean.
To be honest I've never tried it with a high energy ignition system but I assume it would be the same thing.
robj
Yes it is, and the way you do it is correct of course. (You'd be surprised how many people think they can get an accurate reading after a WOT pull, but then driving home...)
Honestly, it's not the ignition or computer controling the parameters that changes things reading plugs, it's having to be so cautious re-torqueing them in a hot aluminum head, or having the place to sit and wait while the engine cools down prior to reinstalling them, but still being able to get to them right away.
Best thing for future mods, if you get worried about it, would be to invest in a wideband and some logging software, at least it will get you some info and early warning as far as what's going on in there.
Honestly, I don't think I could live without an AFR and Fuel press. gauge after being so used to having them. Those are the two add on gauges that I really wouldn't want to lose.
Robj, you need to think of a "tune" as a method to maximize/optimize your own mods. The stock ECU is programmed, among other things, to meet federally-mandated mileage/emissions standards. As a result, there's HP left in the bucket that can be accessed. A "tune" would program your ECU to your mods and yours alone. Also, I'm not of the opinion that a jump to 380cc injectors doesn't need an ECU adjustment. Will it run? Sure, but not optimally (too rich). A JCW (380cc injectors) has a different tune than an S (340cc injectors) for instance. The simple truth is that with a tune you can wring quite a bit more HP out of your MINI that otherwise you'll never see.
Although too much horsepower is almost never a thing, I'm not sure I need to be at 10/10 ths either. I was a little more concerned about not doing harm and it doesn't appear that's a concern, at least not at this point.
If you glance through my build thread, [$500 Bargain Mini] you can see I've done a ton of work to this and so far have only driven the car about 500' from my neighbors house to my own. But after sitting a year at his house with a new battery it started right up, idled smooth and good oil pressure so I went into this with at least a slight measure of faith.
I have the feeling a decent exhaust is next, [after some drive time that is], then maybe injectors, and at that point I'll probably think about a tune to optimize that set-up.
Like I said [at 68] I'm not sure I need to be at 10/10 ths, but then again leaving HP on the table does feel unnatural...
This evening I'm having the pleasure of removing the rear brake hard lines while on jack stands so I'm pretty sure I won't need a Yoga class in at least the near future.
Who designed this stuff anyway???
Thanks to everyone for taking the time to post, it's much appreciated!
robj
Good tune can be done around 300$, here is my recommendations from my long experience tuning these cars.
Tools need :Data Logger, can be cheap INPA or any other tool.Flashing tool, the best way is MPPS V13, cheap tool around 20$.
Need data logger so you can read Boost pressure , SFT and LFT.Under 16PSI boost , the power gain decreases quite a bit.
Flashing tool MPPS can be used with Win XP,Win7 , Win10,to read original file and write the tuned file.
R53, Supercharger pulley -15%,can be tuned with stock injectors 320cc for 200HP.Pulley price with is around 100-120$.
R53 , Supercharger pulley -15% or -17%,injectors 380cc.I used most of time Bosch injectors 0280156063, plug and play, no need adaptors,price for four injectors around 100$ new ones.Can get 225HP-230HP with the right tune.Used injectors can find on Audi TT equiped with 1,8T BAM engine 225HP.
About dyno test, from my experience I recommend a test before and after tuning on same dyno.This way you will find out exactly the power gain.Sometimes you will be surprised to find that your stock car doesn't even have 163HP,most often 150-155HP.
For this reason many dynos are called heartbreakers.
For mare details you can pm me.
Hey buddy !! Gotta delete your old PMs you cannot accept anymore pm as you box is full...
Yes, I do know this guy too. And I´m happy about. Because he is the onliest who was able finding the solution in ECU to let all hardware modifications works as they should!
My short story:
I´m from germany (sorry for my bad english) and renewed the engine by Dr Krumm near cologne.
Head with big valves, ported head, cam made by schrick with krumm datas, competition clutch, woessner pistons, 380 injectors, JCW Pulley and SC, ATI +2% Crank in Hardware.
But the car only delieverd on Dyno 200hp, because the PFL-ECU (EMS2K) with the appropiate JCW Software was ne Neck.
After lond sarching in Internet and Forums, I found Adrian.
And thanks to Adrian, now I do have the FL-ECU MS5150 with GP-Software, where he has changed some settings special for my Hardware.
And since this moment I do have a beasty MINI. fun fun fun
I´ve did a few flashs from Adrian here in Germany and all are really happy.
At least, I´ve logged a few Versions on my setup with PowerDYN. And it looks really intresting.
It´s incredible. So that I´m wanting more.
And we do have plans:
Next step is installing the TVS on the Miststück.
And than, Adrian has to create a special modded File.
How do we realizing this? I´ve installed 4x EGT an AFR with Innovate Probes, and additonal I´m able to logg with a costum made software all engine Parameters in common.
I´m so exciting on March.
R53 , Supercharger pulley -15% or -17%,injectors 380cc.I used most of time Bosch injectors 0280156063, plug and play, no need adaptors,price for four injectors around 100$ new ones.Can get 225HP-230HP with the right tune.Used injectors can find on Audi TT equiped with 1,8T BAM engine 225HP.
Tell me more about these injectors. I've done a little looking and these look like they have a higher resistance and different port, but I know next to nothing about injectors.
I purchased my 380cc injectors from FCP Euro for less than $100 (all 4). Their SKU is (G)0280158315 (BOS-62722). They are Volvo items but are plug & play with EV6 to EV1 male F1 connectors (available on eBay for around $15). Original Mini injectors are 2-port, these are 4-port. Work great.
Tell me more about these injectors. I've done a little looking and these look like they have a higher resistance and different port, but I know next to nothing about injectors.
If you want good injectors good price that work on stock ecu too..get these, I know because I'm using them and they have been perfect ..direct fit and same look as the JCW injectors too
One additional comment: Because the Bosch o-rings are slightly smaller, use new Mini o-rings ($6 on the Interweb) on the injectors and lube them prior to installation.
G3 is local and can help you if you do not want to go the online route with mpps
Thanks! I am planning to get them to do an alignment for me, so I'll ask them. Their shop is pretty close to me. Since I have not had the mini very long, I have not taken it anywhere yet...
Better off just getting the bosch 550cc and re scaling them. Bytetroink guys sell them or you could grab them yourself. Its what I am using with my Tvs900 setup. If you plan on a tune might as well get them. Otherwise you might end up buying stuff twice. The stockers are close to max IDC at 7,000rpm with 15% pulley.
Yes, I do know this guy too. And I´m happy about. Because he is the onliest who was able finding the solution in ECU to let all hardware modifications works as they should!
My short story:
I´m from germany (sorry for my bad english) and renewed the engine by Dr Krumm near cologne.
Head with big valves, ported head, cam made by schrick with krumm datas, competition clutch, woessner pistons, 380 injectors, JCW Pulley and SC, ATI +2% Crank in Hardware.
But the car only delieverd on Dyno 200hp, because the PFL-ECU (EMS2K) with the appropiate JCW Software was ne Neck.
After lond sarching in Internet and Forums, I found Adrian.
And thanks to Adrian, now I do have the FL-ECU MS5150 with GP-Software, where he has changed some settings special for my Hardware.
And since this moment I do have a beasty MINI. fun fun fun
I´ve did a few flashs from Adrian here in Germany and all are really happy.
At least, I´ve logged a few Versions on my setup with PowerDYN. And it looks really intresting.
It´s incredible. So that I´m wanting more.
And we do have plans:
Next step is installing the TVS on the Miststück.
And than, Adrian has to create a special modded File.
How do we realizing this? I´ve installed 4x EGT an AFR with Innovate Probes, and additonal I´m able to logg with a costum made software all engine Parameters in common.
I´m so exciting on March.
I´ll keep you informed.
Keep on Tuning!
I hope you got the RMW tensioner becasue belt slip happens even on the 70mm. I am running the 60mm with the RMW tensioner.
I'm having Adrian due my tuning . He has been a big help sofar . Once I get my plugs in ( weather has been very cold) then I'm heading over to my mom's garage because my wifi doesn't reach mine, then Adrian will be doing my remote tune.
SWEET !!!
tune is done but thx to the snow storm and bttter cold I couldn't really give the monster a good shake down but from what I could tell. It has a much smoother idle ,before it had an ever so slight shake to it like it had a mild cam . My redline did appear to be higher but like I said , stupid snow ..
Side note : this car is AMAZING in the snow. I'm running blizzak tires and the car had no problem what so ever getting through the deep snow even . Lol it was snowplowing on the side street because it sits so low. It had absolutely no problem getting going from a stop in any depth of snow or condition , I was very very pleased with it actually .
Last edited by MiniManAdam; Feb 13, 2020 at 11:00 AM.
I would like to purchase a tune, to get more horsepower, but there are so many options, it is confusing.
Kat
I always start with what my budget is and go from there ...lol which usually isn't much at all..
But I HIGHLY suggest you pm adriancl about tuning if that's what you want to do..once I can fully test out my car I'm going to make a post about my car before and after tuning and how my tuning went with adriancl ( which the man was an amazing help) so guys, if your considering tuning pm him or me and I can point you in the rite direction but adriancl is the man with the tuning hand !!
Last edited by MiniManAdam; Feb 13, 2020 at 11:17 AM.
Smdh are any of these tunes based on the car with a wideband and logs or just what are your mods canned tuned? What is the cost of these TOONS? If you guys dont have widebands installed your more trusting than I would be thats for sure. How is cold idle being handled then cold idle in places like Wisconsin where its -20 here today. I guess @MiniManAdam will find out if when he comes to a stop sign or light his afrs start leaning out into the 16 then 18's then back to the 14.7 area to compensate via stft dipping -25 jumping +25 setting a light etc or it dies at light or when he takes off. Without a gauge you will never know whats going on and it will happen. More so if you dont have the VDO DME. Especially in Wi where the weather can change 50 degrees over night or in the same day like today. Warm idle etc. I just have a feeling you guys are either getting very basic stuff or walking a dangerous line. Who is checking knock voltage? If your still 10.8 at the top of 3rd you haven't gained much other than a smoothed yo yo area and likely a sprint booster like setting which is what fools most people into thinking they gained power. Adrian are you leaving the pedal linear or cheating it so people think they have gained more than what they have. I mention this because with these light of mods there is not much to be gained with a tune other than just a smoothed area under the curve with the factory had its yo yo f up and a sprint booster effect. That normally makes people go wow its so much better. Reality is you give the throttle 10% but now its programmed to open 50% If thats the case it bothers me because you really have not gained anything and its basically just a lie.
If you guys dont have a wide band on to watch you are flying blind and you can just think I am a douche but many many people have toasted the w11 over the years on this forum from bad tunes or not paying attention or thinking it was just a simple 300 bucks and I am good forever and dont need to pay attention. Anybody who doesnt require a wideband is automatic suspect. Its the number one tool needed. @BlwnAway knows this.
Last edited by Akumazeto; Feb 13, 2020 at 04:47 PM.
