Let's talk tuning . EDIT ...tune is FINISHED !!!!
 

I been looking into the waymotorworks tune and thinking Iabout the jcw210 tune . So i went to the dealership today but unfortunately there were no mini techs on today BUT I spoke with a BMW tech who kinda knew some stuff and he advised me to come back Monday and talk to the tech ( I made an apt ) and discuss the jcw210 ECU flash . He is unsure is they even do it anymore but if they do here are my questions to any of you
do I have to pay for the tune it's self or do I just pay them hourly rate on labor ?
And has anybody personally got the wmw tune ? What are your opinions on it ?
What are my other tuning options ? I'm only looking to spend no more than 300$ so I know I'm kind of limited .
Here's a few pics I took today ..I love the color combo on the JCW they had ALOT
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.nor...d1d12363d1.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.nor...b3cef6f37e.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.nor...b916031c18.jpg

I'm in the same boat. Looking for a tune that works and is verifiable from dyne runs [or customer satisfaction]. I've read most of the old tune posts and what a train wreck they all seem to be. I see "Jan's" name [and RMW] mentioned a lot then notice he's "banned" from the forum. What's up with that?
Many of the discussions are old, from 2007 to 2010,2011, so has anything changed?

Is there a "canned" tune that stands out among the rest for an R53 with a pulley, intake and one ball, [or custom] exhaust?

Or does the controversy continue?
Thanks,
robj

It's not really a controversy. A canned tuned is a tune that's made for a bunch of specific mods, like a pulley, intake and what not, but it's not tuned to your exact car on a dyno. It's somewhere in the ball park, but that ball park can be kindergarten or straight up MLB depending on the car. Not all engines are created equal and not all parts are created equal either. My R53 could react slightly differently from yours with the same mods and the tuner would have to cope for it differently. Differences can be the crap in the intake, lower compression from wear, etc, etc. A canned tuned is "good" if it's to get your car running and driving it to a real tuner, but that's my personal opinion. The JCW tune was meant for a car that has the complete JCW package, so if you're missing some of the parts it was designed for, you won't get the most out of your particular setup.

Sorry I sound dumb
cant they wrote or adjust premade tune files to fit specific cars based on their mods to get it closer than a 1 tune canned tune that fits all ?
That was what was done on my mark8 I had tuned. I had to buy a xcal4 and upload driving and idle files and send them and tell him all my mods and he built the tune accordingly . Can they do that with the R53 ???
Btw By engine mods are: header , catless exhaust , pacesetter pipes , jcw injectors , 15% pulley , Cai , upgraded tensioner and Alta couplers ( no leaks ) , forge intercooler and light weight crank stock driven . So would a jcw tune suit my mods or would I be better off with ????

With a remote tuning kit you buy from RMW or others, yes, it can be done that way. Not the same as real time on a dyno still.

A 1 size fits all tune is not possible, closest you get to that is the factory tune, best tune for the majority of cars that have not been modified.

Then there are canned tunes as explained above, tunes designed and tested with specific mods and parts, but without the actual functioning of those mods taken into account.
A factory JCW tune is basically a canned tune, it's a tune designed for the specific modifications of the JCW parts, and as mentioned above, "all" the JCW parts, so if your missing something or the parts you have are slightly different, it won't be correct.

Then there are custom tunes, tunes specifically set up for the way "your" parts are working on "your" car, which will give you the best results.

As far as the factory JCW tune -vs- Way's canned tunes, it depends on your modifications, anything different than all of the JCW parts, a Way tune will be closer, has one of the most extensive canned tune libraries available, for many different mods and combinations of parts. Your best option if you can't afford a custom tune from ByteTronik or RMW.

Exact info I needed .
But if the stock tune is running all my mods well wouldn't a jcw tune run better since it's more similar to what my mods are ?? Understood a wmw tune would be better but if I can get a jcw tune and get a little gain out of it vs a little more for 3x the price with a wmw tune I think I'd get the jcw. Plus then with the JCW I have no down time on my car and once I do a big cam and or head I would do a tune to match all that up then . Throwing away 100$ on the JCW isn't as bad as 300$ for the wmw . Because I will be getting atleast a big cam not to far down the road but I need a tune until then .

I think this would be my best option IF I could keep it under 300$ because I could keep the tuner for when I get my other mods and then have it retuned the same way .. I have had a very good experience doing those .

Thanks Ghost,
That makes sense . I was drag racing a '57 chevy in the 70's. Obviously pre-computer. You had a selection of jets and plugs and your A** or your ET slip was your dyno. [providing your launch was the exact same every time and your shift was at the exact same every time, etc...etc...

So, if a canned tune was in general designed for the mods you have it can give you a boost but maybe not as much as a boost as a custom map designed for your particular engine and set=up. That makes sense,

So to optimize a tune [or maybe more accurately a tune that optimizes your set-up] you need a guy that can modify the maps and do it while you are on a dyno doing real time mods and checking with real time pulls. And this is assuming this guy knows what he/she are doing.

This sounds like a tall order to fill. Names/companies, experience/feedback? How does one find these guys?

And if this Unicorn is hard to find, or not where you are, is there a canned tune that gives 10-15 hp increase, as opposed to the theoretical maximum for your set-up ,18-19 that might be possible, [just theoretical numbers here].

In other words, a maximum gain is possible, [dyno and a really smart guy with a laptop] but is there a canned tune that gives some or at least a reasonable increase per dollar but possibly missing perfection, and at the same time, not causing damage?

Any recommendations for a canned tune the does something but maybe not everything?

But, I can still read a plug right?

thanks,
robj

Good tune can be done around 300$, here is my recommendations from my long experience tuning these cars.
Tools need :Data Logger, can be cheap INPA or any other tool.Flashing tool, the best way is MPPS V13, cheap tool around 20$.
Need data logger so you can read Boost pressure , SFT and LFT.Under 16PSI boost , the power gain decreases quite a bit.
Flashing tool MPPS can be used with Win XP,Win7 , Win10,to read original file and write the tuned file.
R53, Supercharger pulley -15%,can be tuned with stock injectors 320cc for 200HP.Pulley price with is around 100-120$.
R53 , Supercharger pulley -15% or -17%,injectors 380cc.I used most of time Bosch injectors 0280156063, plug and play, no need adaptors,price for four injectors around 100$ new ones.Can get 225HP-230HP with the right tune.Used injectors can find on Audi TT equiped with 1,8T BAM engine 225HP.
About dyno test, from my experience I recommend a test before and after tuning on same dyno.This way you will find out exactly the power gain.Sometimes you will be surprised to find that your stock car doesn't even have 163HP,most often 150-155HP.
For this reason many dynos are called heartbreakers.
For mare details you can pm me.

adrianci,

Thanks for the fast reply. To be honest, I have no experience in "tuning" [at least computer tuning] and only slightly more experience with computers, [old guy] so you made my head spin a little.

I think this is the reason I was searching out a canned tune that actually did something, [safely] that's plug and play, designed for dummies. I realize this might not provide maximum benefit but would have some benefit.

Something like this;
https://www.turnermotorsport.com/BMW...96-2005-models

Does anyone have experience with this product? I read in an old post, [2007] that it wasn't that great but possibly it's improved since.

robj

Wmw tune has shown gains , not massive but ok gains from what I've been told...it's 250$ only too.
Dinan has one for 199$ that seems ok from what I've read too..
I think if you have bolt ons most canned tunes are fine as they have so many and I'm sure one would fit ur mods or if you up your injectors n stuff Dyno or remote tuning is the way to go I think .. I think I miiiiiiight be going remote

I had adrian tune my 2003 MCS and I've been pleased with the results. I had had a GIAC tune done by Helix in PA back in 2006 or 2007 when he installed JCW 380 injectors and the 19% pulley, and had been happy with the slight increase in power. However, once i bought a wideband when i installed the RMW shorty header recently, I found that at WOT I was in the low 9's after 4000 rpms! That would explain the carbon on the exhaust tips! He found that the GIAC had never even adjusted the tune for the larger injectors (even though it was supposedly sold as part of going with the larger injectors), so I had been running around with the car constantly readjusting short and long term fuel maps to compensate. After a couple file updates, the car felt so much faster on the top end. Where the car used to fall flat on its face, the car kept wanting to accelerate. He also calibrated the file to run the 380cc injectors so the car wasn't constantly re-adjusting fuel trims! Also gave me some pops and bangs, which is lots of fun!

Damn,those bosch fuel injectors are priced nice..
i got jcw knock offs for 75$ only , had I known about the bosch I might have tried those.
I went to the dealship today and the tech told me they cannot sell or give me the JCW tune unless I purchased the JCW kit from them or BMW so pretty much only way to get it is to get raped on all the parts .. soooooo I'm going to probably go with Adrian !

Soul,
OK, again being a dumb*ss here that can read a plug but can barely turn on a computer, "I had adrian tune my 2003 MCS and I've been pleased with the results." I'm assuming this is a remote tune? How does one go about doing this? [this really is making me feel old...]

Right now I have a 15% pulley, a Mini Madness cold air intake and one ball mod. Like I said my racing days are over so maximin HP isn't really the goal. I'm sort of just looking to maximize what I have.

Adam,
The WMW ECU tune sounds reasonable without making outrageous claims but sending the ECU to them makes me a little hesitant. And before I did that I would probably do injectors at the very least so that may wait.

So no one out there with any experience with this?

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/BMW...96-2005-models

rob

Honestly I don't think you need a tune yet..and injectors are under 75$ ...I would out the money into a propper catback . I had the one ball mod and it sounded terrible imo . Bug if it's a tune you want then I would pm Adrian . He might be able to help get you started on your road to a remote tune . But honestly even shipping it out a wmw tune us just easier as you only need to remove and send out the computer . You could over night it there and their turn around is quick . Remote tuning your going to need a laptop and a datalogger and some kinda cable from PC to obd I believe and then following the tuners instructions from there.

Canned tunes are so cute lol. None of Ways canned tunes are worth a ****. Canned tunes in nature cant be there to generic. If your mod list can fall under this umbrella you likely did not need one to begin with. Its not like there doing much not going to pull afrs to the upper 11s and not going to advance timing more than stock thats for sure. Thats the nature of them. I guess what I mean is dont bother. Anything you have done to your ride cant be that extreme or worth it if you get a canned tune. Get some real hardware that needs a tune or just let the DME run its adaptive nature around your mods.

@MiniManAdam you were told the same thing in a bunch of the FB groups. You can heed the advice or keep searching for the answer you want to hear.

Rob the shark stuff is straight garbage. Might as well throw your money into the trash and piss on it lol. You dont need injectors people until you start making more power and the 15% is not that really. Sure the IDC might be getting close but not unless your at 6500 or over for extended periods. Take the 300 bucks save it then add another 400 to that and pick up a aquamist setup then you can start to have some fun.

I guess it all depends on what your expectations are of what your getting and if you understand what it all tweaks and effects . The only canned tunes I've used were superchips on my Thunderbirds just for an advance in timing , firm shifts and adjustable points it shifted at so you could maximize your rpm range because it was auto and set cooling fans and ECU for cooler thermostat . So to say all canned tunes are garbage is wrong BUT to say canned tunes for the R53 are garbage may be true and that what I seem to have found in all my research and talking with you guys..
i completely agree with letting stock ecu adjust accordingly and only getting a tune when absolutely needed ..do I ? It could be debated but all my mods and larger injectors I would like to be for sure they are always scaling correctly and I want the other benefits like higher rev limiter and running lights switched off ect and my no cat tuned in so my cel isn't tripped because I had no luck with the L adapter but I haven't tried the spacers yet..
PS I was told nothing in any Facebook groups , lol I don't even or ever have had a Facebook..

yeah your talking about the old hptuner eprom days thats diffrent back when the stock programming was also trash lol. Maybe it was here you asked me where I was from and I am pretty sure that was on facebook and I told you eau claire. The stuff you guys have listed is not worth spending 300 bucks for not even close. Dont need bigger injectors. I mean if you guys want to throw cash away thats fine but you likely will only get a placebo effect a nicer idle and the dead spot gone in the map. Stock cars run about 10.8 up top and your not going to see a noticeable power difference unless you get into 11.8 or 12.2 from 5k up. The canned tunes wont push you up that far and the guys who get them are normally just fooled because they change pedal linearity like a sprint booster into thinking they gained something. I dont care what people do but unless you need bigger injectors becasue of something or have a cam that dead requires a tune because of lift then its sort of just people telling other people get it because I got it and dont want to feel robbed. Does it do stuff sure minor stuff at best. But none of the tunes from Way are going to advance timing or alter afr ratios and I have all the stock mini tunes here and I can tell you there is no difference in timing or fuel for the jcw210 vs stock tuned (if there is its maybe half a point of fuel)

People that have canned tunes are likely very low modded not serious owners. What I am trying to say is its like the people who by the off the shelf stuff at the store throw in the generic steak dinner they got for free and say it was yummy if that makes sense. So its hard to validate what someone like that says and if they even know what they are talking about. Like I bought a pulley plugs and got a canned tuned. I dont know if I am making sense or not. People that know wouldn't get it because they modded their car far enough to need something more. If you think a canned tuned is right for you you likely dont need it is all I am saying.

Tuning
 

Just a note here: I'm working with Adrian on a remote tune applied to an upgraded MS5150 ECU (additional mapping available over and above the stock ECU) for my 2004 S. I've established a performance baseline via a dyno run and as soon as I have his modified ECU I'll install it and schedule another dyno run for an apples to apples comparison. My MC40 pulled 175.67hp at the wheel on the first dyno run (15% SC pulley, stock injectors, one-ball exhaust mod, Dinan Stage 1 tune BEFORE the SC pulley/one/ball exhaust mod). I've switched to 380cc injectors (Bosch Volvo 4-port that are plug/play) and the new ECU will account for that increase. I will post updated HP numbers once the second dyno run is complete and everyone can judge for themselves whether or not his remote tune fits their idea of "tuning."

There is a diffrence like bytetronik when you are logging then having the tuned changed rinse repeat. I have a mc40 as well. Just strapped a tvs900 to it :)

Not arguing with you. Simply stating that I'll have concrete results and comparisons based on a "before" and "after" dyno run. I'm curious as hell, and a little bit skeptical, about how much HP can be gained with a remote tune. Can I gain 25hp with an upgraded ECU? I don't have the foggiest idea. But if it happens it opens up a whole new ballgame. Update soon.

So.
What I'm getting is the stock mapped ECU can adjust for my 15% pulley, cold air and one ball. Is it also true is can adjust for 380cc injectors? And would 380cc injectors be a good first step along with an less restrictive exhaust?

That being said it sounds like I should wait on any of this until at least injectors and a proper exhaust.

I'm really hoping I don't hate the sound of the one ball or the exhaust will be coming sooner rather than later. Not interested in "pops" [which, sorry to say but to this old guy sounds like an immature attraction] nor do I want "drone". A deeper note and less back pressure seems ideal.

Another question comes to mind. Would a less restrictive exhaust lean the engine out too much or can the stock ECU compensate for that as well? Or would injectors and exhaust at the same time be better?

In my carb jet and reading plugs days leaning an engine out too much could be and sometimes was the kiss of death for an engine.

Thanks everyone for all the help, learning as I go.
Robj

Yes, the changes that the mods you're talking about are well within the range of what the factory ECU and tune can adapt to. As for injectors, 400cc's is about the limit of what the engine can handle on start up without changing the global fuel scaling, and as far as the mods and injectors ( 15% pulley and 380cc injectors) while the 380cc injectors aren't needed for high rpm use with just a pulley, since the factory tunes are so rich. There's no reason not to use them as a safety measure in the upper RPM's, if you like (just a little more fuel), but don't expect any difference in power or ability to make more power, that's not what they are for with only those mods.

No, again the stock map in the ECU is tuned from the factory, very rich, helps engines survive "all types" of owners.

If you're unsure or curious after doing the injectors, or any mods, you can still read the plugs, since you know how to do it, they still give you the same info, ECU controlled engine or not.
only issue is getting to them before the closed loop tuning starts to effect them again.

Remote tunes are the same as in person tunes (when done with all the proper accessories and logging)
How much HP that can be gained is simply a matter of how far off your current tune is, with your current mods, nothing more.
And the upgraded ECU is simply a tool that can be utilised if need be. For example if you require it because of extensive modding that create scenarios far from what a stock engine would, and/or if the ECU is seeing these changes as a fault. Or if you simply want or have the need to really "fine" tune in certain map areas, then it can be beneficial to have.

Remember, ECU's and Tuning don't actually make power, your parts make power, the ECU and subsequent tuning simply let you make the most of the parts you have.