R50/53 Let's talk tuning . I'm about to purchase a tune but....
Smdh are any of these tunes based on the car with a wideband and logs or just what are your mods canned tuned? What is the cost of these TOONS? If you guys dont have widebands installed your more trusting than I would be thats for sure. How is cold idle being handled then cold idle in places like Wisconsin where its -20 here today. I guess @MiniManAdam will find out if when he comes to a stop sign or light his afrs start leaning out into the 16 then 18's then back to the 14.7 area to compensate via stft dipping -25 jumping +25 setting a light etc or it dies at light or when he takes off. Without a gauge you will never know whats going on and it will happen. More so if you dont have the VDO DME. Especially in Wi where the weather can change 50 degrees over night or in the same day like today. Warm idle etc. I just have a feeling you guys are either getting very basic stuff or walking a dangerous line. Who is checking knock voltage? If your still 10.8 at the top of 3rd you haven't gained much other than a smoothed yo yo area and likely a sprint booster like setting which is what fools most people into thinking they gained power. Adrian are you leaving the pedal linear or cheating it so people think they have gained more than what they have. I mention this because with these light of mods there is not much to be gained with a tune other than just a smoothed area under the curve with the factory had its yo yo f up and a sprint booster effect. That normally makes people go wow its so much better. Reality is you give the throttle 10% but now its programmed to open 50% If thats the case it bothers me because you really have not gained anything and its basically just a lie.
If you guys dont have a wide band on to watch you are flying blind and you can just think I am a douche but many many people have toasted the w11 over the years on this forum from bad tunes or not paying attention or thinking it was just a simple 300 bucks and I am good forever and dont need to pay attention. Anybody who doesnt require a wideband is automatic suspect. Its the number one tool needed. @BlwnAway knows this.
If you guys dont have a wide band on to watch you are flying blind and you can just think I am a douche but many many people have toasted the w11 over the years on this forum from bad tunes or not paying attention or thinking it was just a simple 300 bucks and I am good forever and dont need to pay attention. Anybody who doesnt require a wideband is automatic suspect. Its the number one tool needed. @BlwnAway knows this.
There is another member who has wide band and a Dyno for before and after Adrian's tune so he can chime in once finished also but as of sofar he too is impressed . Sorry but I don't feel comfortable talking about what others charge but I can say it beat out any others tunes price and imo was easiest route possible .
1st Gear
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 25
Likes: 11
@Akumazeto
I do have installed a wideband and 4x EGT. Both from innovate.
And I logged the tuning from on my setup Adrian.
The result and the comment from my engine builder (Dr. Krumm): "this guy knows what he is doing".
a few loggs in Attachment as an example.
Regards
Dominik
I do have installed a wideband and 4x EGT. Both from innovate.
And I logged the tuning from on my setup Adrian.
The result and the comment from my engine builder (Dr. Krumm): "this guy knows what he is doing".
a few loggs in Attachment as an example.
Regards
Dominik
4th Gear
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 334
Likes: 186
From: Romania
Smdh are any of these tunes based on the car with a wideband and logs or just what are your mods canned tuned? What is the cost of these TOONS? If you guys dont have widebands installed your more trusting than I would be thats for sure. How is cold idle being handled then cold idle in places like Wisconsin where its -20 here today. I guess @MiniManAdam will find out if when he comes to a stop sign or light his afrs start leaning out into the 16 then 18's then back to the 14.7 area to compensate via stft dipping -25 jumping +25 setting a light etc or it dies at light or when he takes off. Without a gauge you will never know whats going on and it will happen. More so if you dont have the VDO DME. Especially in Wi where the weather can change 50 degrees over night or in the same day like today. Warm idle etc. I just have a feeling you guys are either getting very basic stuff or walking a dangerous line. Who is checking knock voltage? If your still 10.8 at the top of 3rd you haven't gained much other than a smoothed yo yo area and likely a sprint booster like setting which is what fools most people into thinking they gained power. Adrian are you leaving the pedal linear or cheating it so people think they have gained more than what they have. I mention this because with these light of mods there is not much to be gained with a tune other than just a smoothed area under the curve with the factory had its yo yo f up and a sprint booster effect. That normally makes people go wow its so much better. Reality is you give the throttle 10% but now its programmed to open 50% If thats the case it bothers me because you really have not gained anything and its basically just a lie.
If you guys dont have a wide band on to watch you are flying blind and you can just think I am a douche but many many people have toasted the w11 over the years on this forum from bad tunes or not paying attention or thinking it was just a simple 300 bucks and I am good forever and dont need to pay attention. Anybody who doesnt require a wideband is automatic suspect. Its the number one tool needed. @BlwnAway knows this.
If you guys dont have a wide band on to watch you are flying blind and you can just think I am a douche but many many people have toasted the w11 over the years on this forum from bad tunes or not paying attention or thinking it was just a simple 300 bucks and I am good forever and dont need to pay attention. Anybody who doesnt require a wideband is automatic suspect. Its the number one tool needed. @BlwnAway knows this.
I agree with you about AFR , but is a must have for a car with big hw changes on engine,mean 19%-21% SC pulley, race camshaft,bigger injectors 550cc,turbo conversion and so on.MiniManAdam have only 15% SC pulley ,decat and 380cc injectors.Easy for me to tune the engine in this configuration,no need AFR Gauge, i tested my tunes for this configuration along many years.Why to spend 200$ for an AFR Gauge???Not necesary.About pedal tuning, also you're wrong.I don't use pedal tuning, i make important changes on sw maps to get maximum power engine in safe area.About Knocks, maybe you don;t know but Siemens sw is not Bosch sw,Siemens sw contains many elements that protect the engine against knock danger.Will see only 19 maps which regulates and protects against.
I hope you can understand values from this logs table, is a professional log made with a special Dataloger which allows data to be saved as csv file.Logs are made on same car as MiniManAdam , same hw changes.Lok on knock values, on SFT, on rpm, gas pedal position ,Throttle angle.
Anyway , if you have Winols official version i can send you tuned file(If you agree to pay for the file) for analysis and I look forward to your criticisms.In general it is easier to criticize than to build, criticizing a tuning without analyzing it is not the most correct attitude.
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Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 264
Likes: 39
I'm currently using Link ecu but have used bytetronik software which is similar and I had the vdo ecu. I also didnt say you were using pedal changes so I Cant be WRONG as you stated. I was wondering if you were. I am aware of how your logging and its similar to bytetronik logging. I will criticize any canned tune solution as its not customized to anyone persons car other than you assembling data throwing it into a cart and sending it basically. My car is heavily modified so maybe I think different but most of these people didnt even need a tune at this level of modification. At some point this will all blow up just like it has for the other people offering the same thing you are offering. Its all well documented here on the forum. Though most of the people involved are now banned. Any tune without direct AFR feedback to me is rubbish. Thats just my opinion.
Here is a modded jcw file for anyone who wants to look at it.
Here is a modded jcw file for anyone who wants to look at it.
Last edited by Akumazeto; Feb 14, 2020 at 06:44 AM.
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Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 264
Likes: 39
I just looked at that log and I CANNOT BELIEVE how much timing you are running up top. I am running that much with 100% m1 controlled by a aquamist set to 35% idc
The log also looks identical to a Bytetronik log fwiw
I'm just going to bow out here. Good luck folks and happy motoring. Life is to short to worry about crap like this.
The log also looks identical to a Bytetronik log fwiw
I'm just going to bow out here. Good luck folks and happy motoring. Life is to short to worry about crap like this.
Last edited by Akumazeto; Feb 14, 2020 at 07:07 AM.
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 2,361
Likes: 753
From: DFW, TX
Update: Adrian provided me with a GP-tuned MS5150 ECU. I also swapped to 380cc injectors. My original dyno run produced 175.67hp at the wheel. The second dyno run today was 193.50hp for a net gain of approx. 18hp. Run condition was 51.30F, 29.93 in-Hg with 30% humidity. A/F was spot on. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to gather torque readings because of an electronics incompatibility issue with the speed shop's dyno (it's not an import shop). Just from my butt dyno I would say there's a substantial torque difference and the top-end is quite a bit better and very smooth. Makes it really easy (and fun) to pass other cars on the freeway in 5th gear at 70mph. Bear in mind that this is on a 130,000 mile 2004 stock MINI with a 15% pulley but without headers/exhaust or a CAI.
6th Gear - AX Champion
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,302
Likes: 301
From: Pittsboro NC
how are you logging? My current tune was done by RMW and then further tweaked by a couple of others I don't have a good way to log though. I dont consider it canned as RMW tweaked it for my mods and AFR logs.
Car has 100+ trackdays on it so I'm not terribly worried, it's still pretty rich and only makes 190 whp with cam/header/17%/620cc injector.
Car has 100+ trackdays on it so I'm not terribly worried, it's still pretty rich and only makes 190 whp with cam/header/17%/620cc injector.
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Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 264
Likes: 39
how are you logging? My current tune was done by RMW and then further tweaked by a couple of others I don't have a good way to log though. I dont consider it canned as RMW tweaked it for my mods and AFR logs.
Car has 100+ trackdays on it so I'm not terribly worried, it's still pretty rich and only makes 190 whp with cam/header/17%/620cc injector.
Car has 100+ trackdays on it so I'm not terribly worried, it's still pretty rich and only makes 190 whp with cam/header/17%/620cc injector.
Last edited by Akumazeto; Feb 15, 2020 at 08:42 AM.
Banned
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 264
Likes: 39
@Akumazeto
I do have installed a wideband and 4x EGT. Both from innovate.
And I logged the tuning from on my setup Adrian.
The result and the comment from my engine builder (Dr. Krumm): "this guy knows what he is doing".
a few loggs in Attachment as an example.
Regards
Dominik
I do have installed a wideband and 4x EGT. Both from innovate.
And I logged the tuning from on my setup Adrian.
The result and the comment from my engine builder (Dr. Krumm): "this guy knows what he is doing".
a few loggs in Attachment as an example.
Regards
Dominik
how are you logging? My current tune was done by RMW and then further tweaked by a couple of others I don't have a good way to log though. I dont consider it canned as RMW tweaked it for my mods and AFR logs.
Car has 100+ trackdays on it so I'm not terribly worried, it's still pretty rich and only makes 190 whp with cam/header/17%/620cc injector.
Car has 100+ trackdays on it so I'm not terribly worried, it's still pretty rich and only makes 190 whp with cam/header/17%/620cc injector.
I'm sure it's running rich because they can't cycle down those injectors enough and it's running rich causing loss of power. But atleast it has been safe if it's had that much time on the track..
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Joined: Aug 2018
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If those are your only mods , are you running e85 ???? Why such large injectors ? I cant see how they could possible be at the correct duty cycle..
I'm sure it's running rich because they can't cycle down those injectors enough and it's running rich causing loss of power. But atleast it has been safe if it's had that much time on the track..
I'm sure it's running rich because they can't cycle down those injectors enough and it's running rich causing loss of power. But atleast it has been safe if it's had that much time on the track..
I tagged Jan hopefully he will come into the thread and set most of it correct.
@Revolution Motor Works
Last edited by Akumazeto; Feb 15, 2020 at 08:52 AM.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it optimal for injectors to run at around 80% duty cycle ? I mean sure it will scale them but a smaller injector would scale more accurately . I'm sure I'm wording it wrong but you get what I'm saying ?
Do you then too need a larger fuel pump for the e85 and at what hp does the stock pump handle on regular gas then ? Just curious .. it seems this stock pump is pretty strong , what is it's lph ?
Do you then too need a larger fuel pump for the e85 and at what hp does the stock pump handle on regular gas then ? Just curious .. it seems this stock pump is pretty strong , what is it's lph ?
6th Gear
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,607
Likes: 316
From: Arnold, MO.
As far as scaling is concerned, the difference between using an injector that runs at 50% to one that runs at 80% is so minimal when it comes to its efficiency and spray characteristics, that it would only really matter in a race or hyper accurate tuning situation.
Better to be slightly less efficient/tweaked, than to run out of fuel or buy injectors twice if it's not needed.
As far as the stock fuel pump, figure about 350 to 400 WHP with pump gas, not sure about e85, but a good guess would be 300 ish.
Something as simple as the Deatschwerks high flow pump will actually cover you for HP over that, probably 550 to 600.
Better to be slightly less efficient/tweaked, than to run out of fuel or buy injectors twice if it's not needed.
As far as the stock fuel pump, figure about 350 to 400 WHP with pump gas, not sure about e85, but a good guess would be 300 ish.
Something as simple as the Deatschwerks high flow pump will actually cover you for HP over that, probably 550 to 600.
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Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 264
Likes: 39
As far as scaling is concerned, the difference between using an injector that runs at 50% to one that runs at 80% is so minimal when it comes to its efficiency and spray characteristics, that it would only really matter in a race or hyper accurate tuning situation.
Better to be slightly less efficient/tweaked, than to run out of fuel or buy injectors twice if it's not needed.
As far as the stock fuel pump, figure about 350 to 400 WHP with pump gas, not sure about e85, but a good guess would be 300 ish.
Something as simple as the Deatschwerks high flow pump will actually cover you for HP over that, probably 550 to 600.
Better to be slightly less efficient/tweaked, than to run out of fuel or buy injectors twice if it's not needed.
As far as the stock fuel pump, figure about 350 to 400 WHP with pump gas, not sure about e85, but a good guess would be 300 ish.
Something as simple as the Deatschwerks high flow pump will actually cover you for HP over that, probably 550 to 600.
6th Gear - AX Champion
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,302
Likes: 301
From: Pittsboro NC
I was going to run e85 but there are no stations here and none near the tracks that I run. the car burns 1/3 a tank per session going to e85 would be a major logistical challenge with 4-5 sessions per day
6th Gear
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,607
Likes: 316
From: Arnold, MO.
-Lack of e85 locally
-Inconsistency at the pump
-Fuel system upgrades, at my HP levels (pump and injectors)
-No flex fuel option for the factory ECU (that I'm aware of)
Are all reasons that I'm sticking with W/M injection with a 75/25 mix instead.
Running 75% methanol will give me enough fuel enrichment I should be able to stay with my 650cc injectors up to 400+ WHP, and the 25% water will give me extra cooling effects.
Plus, it's not that difficult to fill a couple of 5 gal fuel jugs with methanol as needed every 5-6 months.
-Inconsistency at the pump
-Fuel system upgrades, at my HP levels (pump and injectors)
-No flex fuel option for the factory ECU (that I'm aware of)
Are all reasons that I'm sticking with W/M injection with a 75/25 mix instead.
Running 75% methanol will give me enough fuel enrichment I should be able to stay with my 650cc injectors up to 400+ WHP, and the 25% water will give me extra cooling effects.
Plus, it's not that difficult to fill a couple of 5 gal fuel jugs with methanol as needed every 5-6 months.
Banned
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 264
Likes: 39
-Lack of e85 locally
-Inconsistency at the pump
-Fuel system upgrades, at my HP levels (pump and injectors)
-No flex fuel option for the factory ECU (that I'm aware of)
Are all reasons that I'm sticking with W/M injection with a 75/25 mix instead.
Running 75% methanol will give me enough fuel enrichment I should be able to stay with my 650cc injectors up to 400+ WHP, and the 25% water will give me extra cooling effects.
Plus, it's not that difficult to fill a couple of 5 gal fuel jugs with methanol as needed every 5-6 months.
-Inconsistency at the pump
-Fuel system upgrades, at my HP levels (pump and injectors)
-No flex fuel option for the factory ECU (that I'm aware of)
Are all reasons that I'm sticking with W/M injection with a 75/25 mix instead.
Running 75% methanol will give me enough fuel enrichment I should be able to stay with my 650cc injectors up to 400+ WHP, and the 25% water will give me extra cooling effects.
Plus, it's not that difficult to fill a couple of 5 gal fuel jugs with methanol as needed every 5-6 months.
you running again? I actually scored this from a snowmobile team for 150 so major score for me. I turned it upside down so air cant get back in when I take some out.
6th Gear
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,607
Likes: 316
From: Arnold, MO.
Banned
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 264
Likes: 39
I dont have much positive to say about Richard. I think I confused yours with Evabomber
6th Gear
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,607
Likes: 316
From: Arnold, MO.
Yes, while the Aquamist has many great protective features, which can be a real plus if tuning for the W/M, the process I had to go through because of a faulty part was pretty much a nightmare.
Far better customer service when Jeff Howerton had the US distribution.
I'll go into all of that next time I update my build thread, been a slow winter for physically working in the car, so no real changes to report on, therefore no new updates...
Back to this thread.....
Far better customer service when Jeff Howerton had the US distribution.
I'll go into all of that next time I update my build thread, been a slow winter for physically working in the car, so no real changes to report on, therefore no new updates...
Back to this thread.....
Last edited by BlwnAway; Feb 15, 2020 at 06:36 PM.
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Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 264
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He is a **** no need to sugar coat it. He responded to me once drunk off his **** made a huge **** out of himself then the next day tried to act like I was the issue. Dude makes a nice product but he is a mental case.
I'm having troubles !!!!!!!
my rear 02 was sapose to be tuned out so I don't have 2 cel related to not having a catconverter . After tune light was still on and codes were present , so did another tune and light was off so I thought all was ok...went to do my emissions to get fully legal and I flunked with flying colors . Cel is off but those 2 ****ing codes are still present .
Wtf do I do now ? I've never had a tune where I've had this issue....wtf ?
The codes that won't go away are p2096 and p0136
my rear 02 was sapose to be tuned out so I don't have 2 cel related to not having a catconverter . After tune light was still on and codes were present , so did another tune and light was off so I thought all was ok...went to do my emissions to get fully legal and I flunked with flying colors . Cel is off but those 2 ****ing codes are still present .
Wtf do I do now ? I've never had a tune where I've had this issue....wtf ?
The codes that won't go away are p2096 and p0136
Last edited by MiniManAdam; Feb 19, 2020 at 05:37 AM.