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I'm going to replace my shocks, & I'm debating between Koni FSD & Bilstein B4. I want feed back if you have experience with either or both of these shocks. The car is a daily driver, driven mostly on the freeways of So Cal; though I get into the back roads as often as I can. I want the smoothest ride consistent with good handling. I'm not interested in lowering the car, or hampering the freeway ride in any way; I just want the best handling possible.
My car is an 05 JCW, I run Continental extreme contact sport tires, 205/45/17.
I have an 05 R53 and I replaced all 4 shocks with the Bilstein B4s at 150k miles. The front OEMs were completely blown with no compression damping at all. I believe in Aus we have the sports springs fitted as standard.
I never owned the car when it was new so I cannot compare it to the stock dampers. In my opinion the B4s are way too stiff, even with non run flats. You feel every crack, rutt and bump on the road and even after 3 years I still am not used to it. Changing up to 215/45s helped a little and also running slightly lower tyre pressures (30psi). It is by far the stiffest car I've ever been in over my 20 year driving span and I'm constantly scanning the road for the smoothest path. I regret not going the Koni FSDs and I am reminded every single day I drive it. On the upside its an absolute hoot around the hills but its not enough for me to recommend it as a daily. On the freeway its tolerable.
I'm going to change to the FSDs in the near future as I can't put up with it anymore. Thats my 2c.
My OEMs were replaced 6 years ago, a bit over 60K miles, with FSD struts and at the same time replaced the RSB with a 19MM adjustable, as stated many time herein, the very best mod bang for the buck. The improvement in road feel and handling is incredible.
Also small companies like Greene Performance take the best parts from several manufacturers and build custom coilovers with SWIFT springs and custom valved shock bodies.
I had bad experienced with Koni FSD replaced twice due to lower spring seat is not welded only press on and when they ship it its already seperated causing some noise when hit a bump, I replaced twice with FSD from the factory and still it arrived the spring seat seperated from the shock. Used it for a year and finally pissed and replaced it with Bilstein, neither of them not too happy still stiff ride.
Next time around i'll buy the adjustable....... My MCS 2002
Considering my intended usage, should I put in slightly stiffer springs? Do the stock ones tend to sag? I'm pretty sure I have the JCW springs on mine.
[QUOTE=cut7;4393192]I appreciate all the feedback, keep it coming!
Considering my intended usage, should I put in slightly stiffer springs? Do the stock ones tend to sag? I'm pretty sure I don't have the JCW springs on mine.[/QUOTE
I had the sports suspension and replaced it with regular non sports spring and its softer and looks like it drop about an inch, inspections for safety check ( certain state law) always asked if it lowered.
Sorry cut7 I only deal with high end high quality stiff. I find what is the best and save for it. The things I posted are excellent but do cost some money. They will last a very long time and you would be very satisfied but if 2K is too much I suggest saving up for the good stuff.
FYI- you do not need shock tower plates when you buy coilovers because they come with adjustable Camber plates which do the same thing but are much thicker.
The old say goes; “No one ever has the money to do it right the first time, but everyone has the money to do it again at a higher price.”
Shop and buy wise the first time and you will not have to do it a second time.
Learn from my mistakes, and many others before me, buy quality parts over bargain parts.
Don’t get me wrong you can look for a deal on the very good stuff. Just don’t settle for the lowest priced parts because you always get what you paid for.
I have Koni FSD's on my car, and have had them for 3 years. I did have to deal with Koni because the lower spring perches were off when mine arrived at my house, so if you can buy local, I would, just to make potential warranty claims easier. Other than that hiccup, I love them. The ride is very comfortable and the handling is better than stock. My car is a daily driver that I also take on track days and autocross when I can. I put a 19mm rear sway bar in with mine and it's great. I'd like to add some fixed camber plates at some point to really dial the car in, but the car handles great as it is.
I've never used the bilstein B4's, but I had the B8's on my car when it was lowered, they worked fine, but between the lowering springs and those shocks, the ride was pretty jarring.
Also small companies like Greene Performance take the best parts from several manufacturers and build custom coilovers with SWIFT springs and custom valved shock bodies.
Sorry cut7 I only deal with high end high quality stiff. I find what is the best and save for it. The things I posted are excellent but do cost some money. They will last a very long time and you would be very satisfied but if 2K is too much I suggest saving up for the good stuff.
The old say goes; “No one ever has the money to do it right the first time, but everyone has the money to do it again at a higher price.”
Shop and buy wise the first time and you will not have to do it a second time.
Learn from my mistakes, and many others before me, buy quality parts over bargain parts.
Don’t get me wrong you can look for a deal on the very good stuff. Just don’t settle for the lowest priced parts because you always get what you paid for.
Cheap always = cheap parts.
I agree with you on the principle of buying good quality parts, but we aren't dealing with high end cars here. Paying over 25% of the used purchase price of the vehicle on coilovers is just too much. If I was driving around an M5 I could justify $2,500 coilovers and a $1,000 exhaust. Not for a MINI.
There has to be quality options are that not so expensive. I ran NA Miata factory-option Bilstein shocks with H&R springs that I pieced together myself and it cost me less than $400 to build them. They were a very good setup. What is so special/different about MINIS that you have to spend $2,500 to get a decent coilover?
I agree with you on the principle of buying good quality parts, but we aren't dealing with high end cars here. Paying over 25% of the used purchase price of the vehicle on coilovers is just too much. If I was driving around an M5 I could justify $2,500 coilovers and a $1,000 exhaust. Not for a MINI.
There has to be quality options are that not so expensive. I ran NA Miata factory-option Bilstein shocks with H&R springs that I pieced together myself and it cost me less than $400 to build them. They were a very good setup. What is so special/different about MINIS that you have to spend $2,500 to get a decent coilover?
Yeah...what he said.
The only advantage to a coil-over is that you get an adjustable preload ring; which changes ride height, not spring stiffness. I'm satisfied with the way the car sits, so all I want is really good damping. It sounds like the Konis deliver on that promise.
Generally speaking, stock springs usually outlast the life of the car. Unless they're cut, they should last forever.
Don't buy coil-overs if you're driving anywhere in LA. You'll scrap everywhere you go.
I just bought a Bilstein B4 OE Sport Shocks & Struts Kit from ECS Tuning for $245.16.
Bilstein B4 feel exactly like stock and doesn't break the bank.
Shop around and ask online vendors if there are discounts for opened box units.
Thanks for the input! Most people say the Bilsteins handle well, but are a little harsh. The Konis seem to perform just as well — if not better — but with a much smoother ride. I found a set of Koni shocks & struts for $600. Seems reasonable to me.
$600 is a good price. Was shipping included?
Remember to get bumpstops (if they're not included), front and rear strut mounts, and Strut Tower Reinforcement Plates.
Also, don't forget to buy replacement self locking collar nuts, gaskets, and washers.
I was probably going to make my own mounts that are adjustable for caster & camber. (I am a mechanical engineer, & have machine shop with CNC mills & lathes.)
KONI Yellow and some springs are good for little bit lower drive height and everyday driving. If you want to go low (and get a skidplate for sure) get some coilovers. Also if you track and want to dial in the coilovers will do that. Ohlins we carry as well as Bilstein coilovers which are some of the best with KW V3's. You will have to watch for potholes and low spots in the road if you go low.
They look so good you almost want to keep the undercarriage clean.
Better look and pictures of the Gen 1 MINI Ohlins. Not too many pics on the web. Good luck in your search.
So Cal roads can be rough depending on which freeways you travel.
Living up in the Bay Area, we have our challenges as well with the varied road conditions.
The B4 / H-sport combo is firm and definitely not a plush ride. I don’t recall any R53 had a plush ride when we were test driving cars. There’s just not a lot of wheel travel in the suspension.
Edit: Got a ride from my kid today. It’s been a while since I have been in the car and the B4 shocks have softened up just enough to make the ride very nicely damped on the highways.
I agree with you on the principle of buying good quality parts, but we aren't dealing with high end cars here. Paying over 25% of the used purchase price of the vehicle on coilovers is just too much. If I was driving around an M5 I could justify $2,500 coilovers and a $1,000 exhaust. Not for a MINI.
There has to be quality options are that not so expensive. I ran NA Miata factory-option Bilstein shocks with H&R springs that I pieced together myself and it cost me less than $400 to build them. They were a very good setup. What is so special/different about MINIS that you have to spend $2,500 to get a decent coilover?
I understand your thoughts on MINI’s but a very good suspension makes a world of difference on the track. A quality setup allows a MINI to out corner any car on the track if you have the tires, brakes and skills to go with the setup.
As far as cost, all the parts on my MINI totaled up are at least twice what the car costs new. Is that stupid, maybe to some, but I love my 13 year old 2005 JCW.
Question about California roads, why are they so bad? I have been to California, LA, Monrovia, Orange County, and thought the roads were awesome. I drove local roads, highways and canyons. Have any California drivers been to the Northern East coast Ohio or Michigan to see what Realy bad roads are like ?
In Philly we still have some cobble stone roads and the roads around them are horrendous. NJ and NY are even worse and god forbid you have to drive in NYC.
All the heat, rain, ice and snow are destroying our roads all year long.
As for you NA Miata (cool track car) the support of aftermarket is 100 times greater than the MINI.
I just bought the fsd and when they arrived yesterday, it was the new version, called special active. I hear its slightly improved upon for longevity, and they’re red now. You might as well get the new set as I also heard there is a price drop on them.
I understand your thoughts on MINI’s but a very good suspension makes a world of difference on the track. A quality setup allows a MINI to out corner any car on the track if you have the tires, brakes and skills to go with the setup.
I won't argue that MINIs can be good handling cars, but that is a bold statement.
Originally Posted by Dave.O
As far as cost, all the parts on my MINI totaled up are at least twice what the car costs new. Is that stupid, maybe to some, but I love my 13 year old 2005 JCW.
That's your personal choice, I am commenting on the lack of quality parts for prices that reflect they are being used on economy hot hatches. You can always spend a ton of money if that is your preference. I'm a child of the recession, I understand why we found our Great-Grandparent's mattresses stuffed full of cash.
Originally Posted by Dave.O
Question about California roads, why are they so bad? I have been to California, LA, Monrovia, Orange County, and thought the roads were awesome. I drove local roads, highways and canyons. Have any California drivers been to the Northern East coast Ohio or Michigan to see what Realy bad roads are like ?
In Philly we still have some cobble stone roads and the roads around them are horrendous. NJ and NY are even worse and god forbid you have to drive in NYC.
All the heat, rain, ice and snow are destroying our roads all year long.
The roads out west are glass smooth compared to the salt belt.
Originally Posted by Dave.O
As for you NA Miata (cool track car) the support of aftermarket is 100 times greater than the MINI.
The Miata aftermarket is bigger but not 100 times. There are about the same number of dedicated/tuning shops spread around the country but the Miatas have had more time to develop the aftermarket.
We are still talking about economy hot hatches. The aftermarket is going to have to adapt, the cars are getting cheaper and the Gen Z buyers who are now getting the cheap(er) R53s are not going to spend anywhere near $2,500 for suspension setups. I choose not to, they just do not have the money as young(er) people.
I've got a r53 jcw with koni yellows and JCW red springs, and a r53 track car with kw v3 coilovers and 8kg/mm front and 9kg/mm rear swift springs. Roads here are shitty and I was having trouble with bottoming out on the previous setups I ran, and when r53's bottom out it's pretty harsh. The koni yellows rarely bottom out for me lots better on the bad roads here and my autocross times improved markedly. I have yet to bottom out the v3's but they are stiff and they beat you up, it's a track car what can I say, for autocross my times are damn near the same with both cars.
If I were buying today these would be my choices
Budget: Koni yellow + swift springs + camber plates
HPDE/Track: RMW or Colin greene BC coilovers. mainly because most coilovers come with way too low of spring rates for real track use, both of those setups will let you pick.
What Dave.O said about beating most cars on the track in the corners is right, very few cars can outcorner me. A big tire miata setup with aero (225+ tires), or a similar big front tire old civic and that's about it when I HPDE/TT. When we run at a track with 1 straight (NCCAR) I am one of the fastest cars because of all the corners/sweepers.
took 2nd in M3 (modified less than 2.6 liter) at the SCCA time trial last weekend, the miata I passed in this vid got faster on day two and took 1st from me, he's running a 2.5 liter engine swap.
This is in the track car with KW v3 and colin green camber plates, mini's handle really well from the start, most of my suspension work has been to try to make my tires last longer and eek out those last few 10ths
05-23-2018, 02:59 PM
