Hey folks,

Bought an MK7 GTI a few months ago and have been switching back and forth between my mini every other week or so. I'm super impressed with the GTI, but I often find myself preferring to drive the mini for its go-cart like handling/size/profile etc. However, my mini now feels SLOW AS FCK. It just feels sluggish - sure it handles amazingly but when I put my foot down there is just no comparison to my stock GTI.

My current mods are as follows:
- H-Sport Comp Rear Sway Bar
- H-Sport Rear Camber links
- Bilstein B12 Pro-Kit (lowering springs + shocks/struts)
- Borla Race Exhaust
- 15% Pulley
- DDM Intake
- Non-runflats

So here's my questions:

1) if I go ahead and add injectors+tune (another $1k ish) is she still going to feel SUPER slow compared to the GTI?

2) Could there be something wrong with my car in that it is not running as fast as it should given all the mods I've done? In other words, is a stock GTI really that much faster than a modded r53?

3) if I invest a similar amount in the GTI in suspension/handling, will it ever feel like my mini?

4) What other cars should I look into buying that give me the best of both worlds? Cayman? S2K?

Thanks!

-Matt

 

Depending on what year R53 you have injectors tune will produce different results. All great but different. The 05/06's have lower gearing, and lighter crank damper and coating on the Supercharger fins to make them a bit quicker off the line and tad more boost efficiency.

The 15% SCP is a good size, but may be considered somewhat conservative with respect to the 17 and 19% pulley as we know now. Folks who initially installed those were/are still very happy with that choice. I see 18lbs of boost with an Original Series Silver ALTA pulley.

Don't forget to swap out the spark plugs. Pushing more air, will need more efficient spark and one step colder plug.

And if you think the Mk7 GTi is quick, take a 3rd Gen JCW for a spin.

 

The things that gRay rAvEn mentioned can give incremental improvements, but will not transform the car from "SUPER slow" to quick.

Do you feel it lacking at all speeds and rpm? 1st gen MINI do have low torque at lower rpm range.

 

The R53 is not ment to be fast. Get yourself a mustang.

 

(S)He mentioned handling, not being mauled in the twisties by a mentalist w/ a log axle!!!

 

Follow up Questions:


What Model Years are the cars?
R53
GTI


Bottom Line I think the difference you feel is the R53 started life as a 1.6 producing 114 hp but when modded to the JCW spec add ons can reach as high as 211+ hp


Your GTI if it has the 2.0 petrol engine then out of the box it is rated at 220 hp and 230 hp if it includes the performance package.


So the R53 would be at a measurable hp deficient even with the GTI being about 407 lbs heavier.


Motor On!

 

I had an 08 LS3 Corvette that was really fast. After driving the Vet the Mini felt so slow that I just sold the Vet. Problem solved, plus the smiles per miles ratio of the Mini is better.

On the mods, can you turn your own wrenches? For just over a grand you can buy a different cam, larger injectors and a canned tune. With the 15% pulley and the cat back, the Mini will move quite nicely.

 

MINIs are slow. I'm not sure why you're surprised at all here. My 93 Civic (GSR SWAP) dominates the MINI in acceleration, out-brakes it, corners better.

The MINI wins in curb appeal though... and I'm not as embarassed to step out of a MINI at 38 years old as I am the Civic - LOL. I have a MINI bc I love it - it's a culture thing, but I don't confuse that with pretending it's a performance vehicle.

 

Not sure how relevant this is, the OP has a Supercharged S model not a just-a.

If someone dumped a HEMI into a MINI....

And sorry, not sure what planet your on but a Civic better in corners than a well maintained MINI. All the Civics I've been in handle like granddad's Buick....

 

The GSR motor is not a "hemi". It's a basic 1.8L engine and isn't really anything special. I RUN AWAY from Cooper S and have taken my Civic to many SouthEast MINI runs (Tail of The Dragon, Hellbender, BlueRidge Parkway, etc). I have 8 cars and have owned over 50 in my lifetime and I'm star-struck by none of them. It is what it is.

My GSR hatch demolishes the S sir. PERIOD. I'm sorry you don't know how to setup a Civic to turn. Everything in my yard turns quite well. Now... I will say that that I've run into a few people from AtlantaMINIs that put together a proper MINI, yet they aren't aggressive enough behind the wheel to benefit from it and pull away from my hatch. Just the facts. The MINI is and always has been overpriced for what you're getting - and it underperforms as well. I've owned 2 r53s and 1 r50 - I know what I'm talking about.

Don't be star-struck with your purchase. When I am on the Honda boards posting my Datsun 510 destroying Civics people feel they need to come in and "defend" the brand or their purchase. I'm not sure why that is * shrugs *

Anyone thinks a bolt-on Cooper is fast has never had a truly fast car. To the OP - a real tune will definitely wake your MINI up. My advice - rear seat delete, some lightweight 15s or 16s does WONDERS - and reducing the weight wherever you can.

My GSR hatch laid down only 181hp with bolt-ons (and tuned on Hondata). It is not a racecar or rocketship but the average bolted-up and tuned S (even the r56s) don't wanna meet me in straights nor twisties. I make it a point to pick on Coopers bc I'm in a few Cooper crews and we're friends and always around wrenching. It's no-contest... which is sad considering there's no power adder on the Civic.

 

BTW --- I am not saying that the S is not fun to drive and thrash --- it is. But "fast" in factory form they are not. The GTI has been bred for performance from day 1 and arguably started the SpoCom craze. Don't feel bad that your MINI doesn't play well with it --- I'd be more surprised the other way around. Happy motoring!

 

Jesus, I thought the R53 was heavy. How do you pack so much weight into such a small car?


There is a lot more to a car than just horsepower to determine what feels fast, including a massive amount of personal perspective. I'm a firm believer in the idea that you can only do so much to modify the way each different car feels. With concern for money, of course. I came from driving an NA Miata, which was slow but handled extremely well. It would be a futile endeavor to try and make my R53 handle like a Miata because it just isn't FR with close to 50/50 weight distribution. It's a fun car in its own right, and significantly more useful than a Miata, but it just doesn't handle as well.

I think the real question is, what do you want from your vehicle? Or what is your biggest priority? Fast? Handles well? Overall balance?

 

you sure you are not mistaken turbo lag with speed? The turbo cars tend to feel fast because they give that lag followed by a big jump in power.

I would imagine if you did some 0-60 pulls you will find they are close if not the same

I would not do injectors/tune by themselves, at least get a cam too like an rmw dominator the install is easy and the gains are nice

 

thanks for all the replies!

so to answer some of the followup questions...

1) My mini is an '04 r53
2) GTI is an MK7 ('15) w/out PP
3) Already did a rear-seat delete (looking into lighter wheels as well)
4) I upgraded to cooler sparks when I changed the pulley
5) I've done all the mod work myself so any additional labor expense is mute

I guess what I'm trying to gauge is whether or not the extra $1.5k or so for a tune + injectors + cam? (plus some gauges i guess for good measure) is really worth it? Many here have pointed out that the mini is not meant for speed and I should just accept that. If that's the case, that's fine, maybe I'm better off spending that money on suspension upgrades for the GTI to get it to handle a little more like the mini? Thoughts?

Also, any thoughts on just adding a sprint-booster?

Thanks!

 

I went from your mods, to a RMW tune, cam, 550cc injectors it was a pretty big jump.

If I roll on throttle in 1st my street tires break loose when I hit about 4000 rpm, that did not happen before. I ran a 2:26 at vir last time I was there, I'm going again this weekend and I made 3 changes, should be interesting what my times are if I can actually get clean laps with 40 other cars on the track!

changed from r-s3 tires to r-s4
dominator cam/injectors/tune
LSD installed

 

Prefacelifts have crap gear ratios and get off the line much slower. Gtis aren't much quicker than a modded facelift r53.
Regarding the civic handling, I guess if you throw enough eBay parts at it, a civic might be able to take a corner. No one has ever said a civic drives like it's on rails...

 

excuse me? civics are quite often the fastest car at an autocross, those old ones that run SMF are extremely fast they dominate that class at the nationals, when was the last time mini won in SMF ?

 

The old double wishbone Civics do handle quite well.

 

the new ones do too, in honda challenge trim they put down pretty quick lap times

 

I have a 911 turbo and love it! If you want to talk about slow comparisons. My Mini is for fun and gokart experience. Enjoy the nimble experience of your Mini not the speed.

 

i was at vir all weekend with a 2008 turbo Cayman 420 wheel hp, I was same speed as him until the last session when traffic was light and he could open up more, his best was a 220 lap mine was a 225 with only 210hp

 

Track driving separates those that can from those that cannot. It also reveals whether the car is set up correctly. I knew a guy with a Honda S2000, he put the best brakes on that money could buy and would pass cars with twice the HP by knowing how to drive and use his brakes.

 

Would like to have heard what the Porsche guy was saying with a mere FWD Mini on his butt.

 

I talked with him for a couple hours, sending him photo's when they get done uploading. He could run a dirty line on the corners and pull away on the straights just due to the hp.

It was a lot of work for me, my shoulders are sore! but I could outbrake and out corner him and keep up. Last session he really got away from me when there was no traffic, that's when he ran the 2:20, my best time without traffic according to circuit tools was a 2:24.79 that's a big jump for me.

 

I would say...Now that's cool!