R50/53 R53 with big power....Whats left for top end
#1
R53 with big power....Whats left for top end
Well I need some help! I have what I considered a moderately modified R53. I was happy with it, but no more! 4am this morning my buddy and I did a couple pulls on the highway, each time I barely pulled away.
My buddy's car is a 2014 Civic Si. LMAO...he was way more pi$$ed then I was because he just bought the car.
On the top end 5k and up there is just nothing there. Any suggestions on what I could do to improve this? I figured a header with longer primary's would do it, but I have seen so many post were there is not much gain.
Mods engine wise: Bigger Cam, DT CAI, Borla race exhaust, MSD coil, Magnecore wires, 15% smaller supercharge pulley, and UNICHIP (my only option were I am located) so I don't blow up!
I figured with these mods I would be close to 210WHP but I guess not :(
Civic SI is 205hp/174lbs stock.
I have done some weight reduction as well,
rear seat delete and sparco R333 seats. Not sure what else I need to loose some weight besides myself.
Any suggestions from the R53 owners putting down more power and what mods have you done besides what I already have done?
P.S. My car out handles the civic any day just straight line power is the issue
My buddy's car is a 2014 Civic Si. LMAO...he was way more pi$$ed then I was because he just bought the car.
On the top end 5k and up there is just nothing there. Any suggestions on what I could do to improve this? I figured a header with longer primary's would do it, but I have seen so many post were there is not much gain.
Mods engine wise: Bigger Cam, DT CAI, Borla race exhaust, MSD coil, Magnecore wires, 15% smaller supercharge pulley, and UNICHIP (my only option were I am located) so I don't blow up!
I figured with these mods I would be close to 210WHP but I guess not :(
Civic SI is 205hp/174lbs stock.
I have done some weight reduction as well,
rear seat delete and sparco R333 seats. Not sure what else I need to loose some weight besides myself.
Any suggestions from the R53 owners putting down more power and what mods have you done besides what I already have done?
P.S. My car out handles the civic any day just straight line power is the issue
#4
I hate to criticize another company's product, but I don't have a dog in this fight when I tell you that I would be careful with that Unichip, we've seen some disasters with them and cams. They lean out the mixture, combining with the leaning effects of the cam, making for a bad combination. I'm sure Unichip is a good company, and they may have put more work into tuning MINIs, but that combination has had bad results. Very bad.
There are ways to get remote tunes that work correctly for your setup. That would be the first thing I would do...
There are ways to get remote tunes that work correctly for your setup. That would be the first thing I would do...
#5
#7
First of all....
Have you ever considered porting?
Motors love VE so the more VE the better just make sure
your injectors and fuel trims are correct.
You can also use under drive pulleys to help with total rotating mass.
As far as remote tunes they are just as reliable (if your car is in working order) as an in house tune. I have completed thousands of e-tunes and never had any problems.
You need to look at the Helix,ECS,Pelican,RMW,ect. sites and determine which tuner offers what your looking for in price and services performed.
Have you ever considered porting?
Motors love VE so the more VE the better just make sure
your injectors and fuel trims are correct.
You can also use under drive pulleys to help with total rotating mass.
As far as remote tunes they are just as reliable (if your car is in working order) as an in house tune. I have completed thousands of e-tunes and never had any problems.
You need to look at the Helix,ECS,Pelican,RMW,ect. sites and determine which tuner offers what your looking for in price and services performed.
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#8
#9
#10
spencer roper, porting is something I considered but would not do it because unichip is at it limit for mods. I agree porting would increase the VE and help with the top end for sure. Just need to look more into yours and Helix suggestions on which ecu is best and get a remote tune done
I agree with not running a port on the unichip!
The underdrive pulley system can really help as well next time you are doing the belt.
I'd definitely look into the JCW injectors and a tune as number 1
After that you can focus on non invasive procedures if your not ready to port
I.e. even smaller pulley, header system, or even an aquamist setup
#11
Thanks for the info Spencer Roper, as well as everyone else!
Well I guess I am looking for either proper ECU or piggy back system with a remote tune to start with. I went to Helix website and could not find any ECU upgrades. What do you recommend and can you direct me to a site were I can look into them. RMW just has ecu tune but no info on it, and the contact has no email address.
Well I guess I am looking for either proper ECU or piggy back system with a remote tune to start with. I went to Helix website and could not find any ECU upgrades. What do you recommend and can you direct me to a site were I can look into them. RMW just has ecu tune but no info on it, and the contact has no email address.
#12
I disagree. You are likely not putting all the power down. OEM clutch's (manual/auto) tend to have some slip, even at stock power. If you are 50hp over stock, it is almost certainly slipping.
#13
Thanks for the info Spencer Roper, as well as everyone else!
Well I guess I am looking for either proper ECU or piggy back system with a remote tune to start with. I went to Helix website and could not find any ECU upgrades. What do you recommend and can you direct me to a site were I can look into them. RMW just has ecu tune but no info on it, and the contact has no email address.
Well I guess I am looking for either proper ECU or piggy back system with a remote tune to start with. I went to Helix website and could not find any ECU upgrades. What do you recommend and can you direct me to a site were I can look into them. RMW just has ecu tune but no info on it, and the contact has no email address.
#14
Nonneed to get a standalone ecu...very $$...
A basic custom tune and a couple more should get you to much higher HP.....
Tuners are out there...just need a "tool" to upload and download your file, and IMO a dyno...can be done On the street...but IMO the $100 in dyno time is well spent.
What is your budget?
While a tune is 350$ or so, you might find adding bigger injector and a heads to support it MIGHT make sense...but your goals $$ and HP will dictate if you get a RMW shorty header or an cheapo eBay one..but while the eBay is good till 220hp, the RMW has many folks driving street cars with even the factory cat welded on making 240+ as daily drivers with a ported head....
So there are different options...RMW stuff is not cheap, but tends to fit well, and be well tested...the oy item I had was the tune ...I gained 15 HP instantly, and was at 200 HP with just JCW injectors and a 17% pulley with a stock exaust....very streetsble, no junk bolted on...way too many stories about piggybacks blowing up cars.
And one tip...the piggyback you run is setup for a SPECFIC combination of mods, usually a 15% pulley...and they could be custom programmed on a dyno...and some folks did OK..but some found they LOST HP....the adaptive nature of the ecu caused issues, and once the ecu was tunable support was dropped, and the maker of the unichip moved on..it is simy hard to know if the unichip was not tuned for your car what it was setup for...most have been tried by 3 or 4 prior owners...
A basic custom tune and a couple more should get you to much higher HP.....
Tuners are out there...just need a "tool" to upload and download your file, and IMO a dyno...can be done On the street...but IMO the $100 in dyno time is well spent.
What is your budget?
While a tune is 350$ or so, you might find adding bigger injector and a heads to support it MIGHT make sense...but your goals $$ and HP will dictate if you get a RMW shorty header or an cheapo eBay one..but while the eBay is good till 220hp, the RMW has many folks driving street cars with even the factory cat welded on making 240+ as daily drivers with a ported head....
So there are different options...RMW stuff is not cheap, but tends to fit well, and be well tested...the oy item I had was the tune ...I gained 15 HP instantly, and was at 200 HP with just JCW injectors and a 17% pulley with a stock exaust....very streetsble, no junk bolted on...way too many stories about piggybacks blowing up cars.
And one tip...the piggyback you run is setup for a SPECFIC combination of mods, usually a 15% pulley...and they could be custom programmed on a dyno...and some folks did OK..but some found they LOST HP....the adaptive nature of the ecu caused issues, and once the ecu was tunable support was dropped, and the maker of the unichip moved on..it is simy hard to know if the unichip was not tuned for your car what it was setup for...most have been tried by 3 or 4 prior owners...
#15
Did many mods to put down as much of the power as I can at the wheel. The auto tranny ECU is very intrusive for sure..lol
I have replaced all motor mounts with poly urethane, upgraded to an engine stablizer to hold the engine in place, upgraded koni FSD's, and added a sprint booster.
Trust when I say I am getting as much power as I can with what I got. Its not everyday you can step on an auto and squeal your tires...the care is EXTREMELY snappy. Up to about 180km/h I am very happy with it. I just run outta steam after that....
I have replaced all motor mounts with poly urethane, upgraded to an engine stablizer to hold the engine in place, upgraded koni FSD's, and added a sprint booster.
Trust when I say I am getting as much power as I can with what I got. Its not everyday you can step on an auto and squeal your tires...the care is EXTREMELY snappy. Up to about 180km/h I am very happy with it. I just run outta steam after that....
#16
Nonneed to get a standalone ecu...very $$...
A basic custom tune and a couple more should get you to much higher HP.....
Tuners are out there...just need a "tool" to upload and download your file, and IMO a dyno...can be done On the street...but IMO the $100 in dyno time is well spent.
What is your budget?
While a tune is 350$ or so, you might find adding bigger injector and a heads to support it MIGHT make sense...but your goals $$ and HP will dictate if you get a RMW shorty header or an cheapo eBay one..but while the eBay is good till 220hp, the RMW has many folks driving street cars with even the factory cat welded on making 240+ as daily drivers with a ported head....
So there are different options...RMW stuff is not cheap, but tends to fit well, and be well tested...the oy item I had was the tune ...I gained 15 HP instantly, and was at 200 HP with just JCW injectors and a 17% pulley with a stock exaust....very streetsble, no junk bolted on...way too many stories about piggybacks blowing up cars.
And one tip...the piggyback you run is setup for a SPECFIC combination of mods, usually a 15% pulley...and they could be custom programmed on a dyno...and some folks did OK..but some found they LOST HP....the adaptive nature of the ecu caused issues, and once the ecu was tunable support was dropped, and the maker of the unichip moved on..it is simy hard to know if the unichip was not tuned for your car what it was setup for...most have been tried by 3 or 4 prior owners...
A basic custom tune and a couple more should get you to much higher HP.....
Tuners are out there...just need a "tool" to upload and download your file, and IMO a dyno...can be done On the street...but IMO the $100 in dyno time is well spent.
What is your budget?
While a tune is 350$ or so, you might find adding bigger injector and a heads to support it MIGHT make sense...but your goals $$ and HP will dictate if you get a RMW shorty header or an cheapo eBay one..but while the eBay is good till 220hp, the RMW has many folks driving street cars with even the factory cat welded on making 240+ as daily drivers with a ported head....
So there are different options...RMW stuff is not cheap, but tends to fit well, and be well tested...the oy item I had was the tune ...I gained 15 HP instantly, and was at 200 HP with just JCW injectors and a 17% pulley with a stock exaust....very streetsble, no junk bolted on...way too many stories about piggybacks blowing up cars.
And one tip...the piggyback you run is setup for a SPECFIC combination of mods, usually a 15% pulley...and they could be custom programmed on a dyno...and some folks did OK..but some found they LOST HP....the adaptive nature of the ecu caused issues, and once the ecu was tunable support was dropped, and the maker of the unichip moved on..it is simy hard to know if the unichip was not tuned for your car what it was setup for...most have been tried by 3 or 4 prior owners...
Well, the old saying "you gotta pay to play!" I understand that and defiantly not looking to cheap out... so what I need to pay is not a problem.
As for the unichip... I originally purchased it as one big package already set with a base map. Was advised to reset ECU once a month due to the adaptiveness. Then when I purchased the bigger cam later I sent the unichip to update the base map with that. Been running about a year with it.
#17
+1 with zippy
I don't recall mentioning a stand alone. That's a rather drastic approach.
I'm my years of software calibration I found all factory ecus to have intrusions. My goal was to trick them. This is where having a good tuner comes into play.
Your area is remote so you are left with remote tuning.
Step 1 on your build should have been finding this then modding.
Since your in the boat already it's time to find a captain.
All of the aforementioned have tuning available you might just have to contact them directly. You will pick up HP ,TQ,top end and better drivability if you chose a good tuner.
And please buy injectors...that cam is IMO/IME useless without them.
I don't recall mentioning a stand alone. That's a rather drastic approach.
I'm my years of software calibration I found all factory ecus to have intrusions. My goal was to trick them. This is where having a good tuner comes into play.
Your area is remote so you are left with remote tuning.
Step 1 on your build should have been finding this then modding.
Since your in the boat already it's time to find a captain.
All of the aforementioned have tuning available you might just have to contact them directly. You will pick up HP ,TQ,top end and better drivability if you chose a good tuner.
And please buy injectors...that cam is IMO/IME useless without them.
#18
+1 with zippy
I don't recall mentioning a stand alone. That's a rather drastic approach.
I'm my years of software calibration I found all factory ecus to have intrusions. My goal was to trick them. This is where having a good tuner comes into play.
Your area is remote so you are left with remote tuning.
Step 1 on your build should have been finding this then modding.
Since your in the boat already it's time to find a captain.
All of the aforementioned have tuning available you might just have to contact them directly. You will pick up HP ,TQ,top end and better drivability if you chose a good tuner.
And please buy injectors...that cam is IMO/IME useless without them.
I don't recall mentioning a stand alone. That's a rather drastic approach.
I'm my years of software calibration I found all factory ecus to have intrusions. My goal was to trick them. This is where having a good tuner comes into play.
Your area is remote so you are left with remote tuning.
Step 1 on your build should have been finding this then modding.
Since your in the boat already it's time to find a captain.
All of the aforementioned have tuning available you might just have to contact them directly. You will pick up HP ,TQ,top end and better drivability if you chose a good tuner.
And please buy injectors...that cam is IMO/IME useless without them.
I have already sent the email to revolution mini to get the ball rolling. I was going to buy bigger injectors when I bought all my stuff, but was told not needed by the company I purchased from.... does make sense to get them though with the cam like you said.
#19
You know it's funny you mention OEM ECU tuning as an unfamiliar option, as I was just talking with a friend about the whole standalone craze.
When I built my Evo I could have gone motec as that's what I have a majority of my work tuning experience in. However I knew that the stock ECU was capable of so much more after reading about the DSM SD cars. Factory ECUs can do very similar things to a standalone setup if you know how to add and rewrite periphery.
With a factory ECU I'm going 9s on E85 and I'm utilizing speed density. All three of these things required reprogramming the ECU but...it did it...no standalone.
So before you tear out modern OBD2 systems I suggest you find what the OEM ECU can really do.
When I built my Evo I could have gone motec as that's what I have a majority of my work tuning experience in. However I knew that the stock ECU was capable of so much more after reading about the DSM SD cars. Factory ECUs can do very similar things to a standalone setup if you know how to add and rewrite periphery.
With a factory ECU I'm going 9s on E85 and I'm utilizing speed density. All three of these things required reprogramming the ECU but...it did it...no standalone.
So before you tear out modern OBD2 systems I suggest you find what the OEM ECU can really do.
#20
It is old school thought! Back in the late 90's that is what you had to do was get an obd1 ecu, screw around with the wiring harness and then play..... and even then the tuning was not that great back then. My fully built integra which I just finished up last year, I went and spent a fortune on AEM standalone ECU, MOTEC was my first choice but needed to spend the extra grand on tuning :(
So if I need to spend money on injectors, remote tune, and I am undecided on the header at this point. That is way cheaper then I am use to.
Hopefully I hear back from RMW real soon and see what can be done!
So if I need to spend money on injectors, remote tune, and I am undecided on the header at this point. That is way cheaper then I am use to.
Hopefully I hear back from RMW real soon and see what can be done!
#21
So I am updating this post with the results of going with RMW mini and working with Jan.
First, Jan is EXTREMELY easy to work with, very friendly and of course extremely smart when it comes to everything mini.
I did the first flash mod tonight. I did a 2 hour road test tonight.
All I can say is holy sh@! I can't believe the difference!! from 3k rpm to redline it is a completely different car. Power is now being used to its fullest. SOOO much more pull! I did about 10 pulls at different speeds and the power is immediate.
Now for actually just going for the drive the wife and I found the car drove way smoother as a DD and the car is even more fun to drive.
Thanks for all the help and direction everyone. I will be adding bigger injectors and RMW header in the spring to finish up the performance mods and get the last final tune.
First, Jan is EXTREMELY easy to work with, very friendly and of course extremely smart when it comes to everything mini.
I did the first flash mod tonight. I did a 2 hour road test tonight.
All I can say is holy sh@! I can't believe the difference!! from 3k rpm to redline it is a completely different car. Power is now being used to its fullest. SOOO much more pull! I did about 10 pulls at different speeds and the power is immediate.
Now for actually just going for the drive the wife and I found the car drove way smoother as a DD and the car is even more fun to drive.
Thanks for all the help and direction everyone. I will be adding bigger injectors and RMW header in the spring to finish up the performance mods and get the last final tune.
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GothamNite (12-08-2023)
#23
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#25
Well the injectors would just to replace the stock ones as I am probably taxing them out pretty bad at redline. I already have the whitline 21mm rear swaybar on it stiffest setting. My mind is pretty much made up and in the spring I will add the header, and pretty sure I am going to wrap it as well.