For decades there's been Mini meets. Where Mini enthusiasts get together to enjoy the company of other like minded Mini enthusiasts. Then the new MINI arrived on the scene. Many long standing Mini meets allowed the new MINI to participate. However, there was a dark underbelly of some classic Mini devotees and these people made it difficult for new MINI enthusiasts to enjoy the events (we need not go into details here of which events or who was involved or what they did). There was some discontent amoungst the new MINI crowd because of this (I've seen the threads on Mini2 and NAM)

However, in many cases, classic and new owners peacefully co-existed.

I organized my first national level Mini/MINI event where classic and new owners were treated equally and all shared in the fun! As an organizer, I wanted to be sure not to perpetuate the feud. However, only 12 classic Mini showed up out of over 220 cars. That's only a 1:20 ratio! I found out later that many classic Minis did not come, even though the event was billed as an event for both classic and new, due to the fact they've had hardship in the past with new MINI owners not welcoming them at meets.

Back to the title of this thread. A disturbing trend in the USA has been to bill meets as MINI only. Not allowing or welcoming classic Minis. I have a hardship with this. First off, without the classic Mini there'd be no new MINI for us to love! Secondly, many people are billing their events as new MINI only in what appears to be "payback". Some even as bold as saying that because the classic community had treated them so bad that they wanted their event to be about MINIs. Is it fair that we play dirty just because part of their community choose to treat us poorly? Is this the ideal behind the MINI spirit?

Comments? thoughts? suggestions? on the ramifications of MINI only events where classics are not welcome...

_________________
Happy Motorin'

A MINI VACATION IN VEGAS 2005

My impression has been that the Mini vs. MINI thing was mostly a British fixation...and maybe had something to do with the wounded pride of Brits who saw one more of their national companies snapped up by the Germans.

It would indeed be a shame for this sentiment to be copycatted in the US. Folks should get a life, you know?

jsun, what do you think the ramifications of MINI only events might be?

Well, I wouldn't do it but it is a free country.

These things should be about fun, if you exclude people like that....

Don't be that guy! :smile:

-Jim

First, I'm not saying any of this is right, just that it's my perception of the situation.

I think there are a lot of MINI owners who want nothing to do with the decades old Mini. They view the MINI as a FWD BMW (Z-link suspension, xenons, DSC, auto aircon, airbags, heated leather seats, HK) and don't really see the old Mini as having much to do with the new MINI except for the name.

Part of this is the result of MINIs only being sold at BMW dealerships. Yeah, I know they have a separate showroom, but you still know you're really at a BMW dealership and most of us take our MINIs to a BMW service department for service.

It would help if:
1) MINIs were sold and serviced at separate MINI dealerships (not on the grounds of a BMW dealership)
2) MINI service department worked on BOTH the new MINI and the old Mini. The MINI Corporation has returned after decades of abandoning the U.S. market, but when they don't service their older product, it essentially denying in actions it's own history.

Why are we surprised then when MINI owners don't have much interest in Minis? MINI's interest in Mini doesn't seem extend much beyond the Mini providing a good sales story by adding some "history" and "british flavor."

Then there is the fact that MINI has sold 5 to 7 times more MINIs in the U.S. than the number of Minis. So, don't expect a MINI/Mini meet (new event, not a well established Mini event "welcoming" MINIs) to have a lot of old Minis. It's just a simple function of the numbers.

Again, I'm not saying that makes it right.

>>Then there is the fact that MINI has sold 5 to 7 times more MINIs in the U.S. than the number of Minis.

I was unaware of these numbers, thanks for posting them Dave! :smile:

Does this take into consideration the amount of "imported" Minis that enthusiast bring into the country since the classic Mini stopped selling here ? In other words, are you talking about sales of the classic Mini in the US or the total population of Minis currently in the US?

Fortunately, my MINI dealer (Prestige) does not share its service dept with BMW. With regard to the comment about many MINI owners who do not want anything to do with the old Mini, that's a surprise to me as I have been to many rally's and I have never heard anyone make those comments. Just recently, I attended a rally (RDR 2) and I remembered that everyone flocked to the one and only classic Mini that showed. Moreover, the origanizer of the event asked the owner of the classic Mini to lead the pack of 82 MINI'S! I went to an event last year whereby it was run by a classic Mini group (NJ classic Mini's) who wanted to try and get both groups together. All of the MINI owners loved seeing the classic Mini's!! However, the majority of the classic Mini owners wanted nothing to do with us!!

Regardless of the reasoning of any feuds, I agree that we should not do anything to perpetuate any such action. Whether you like it or not, the Classic Mini is part of the MINI heritage.

But... as DiD mentioned, don't expect any significant numbers of Classic Minis to show up at any get together, there just aren't that many of them around.

I have a MINI MCS and love it. If I could find a Mini at the right price and condition I would LOVE to have one. Problem is if I get one then I won't know which one to drive.

I have NO problem with all Mini/MINIs getting together in fact the runs we have done with both are the best ones.

Earl

Here in Alabama, MINI's and Mini's get along great!

>>Here in Alabama, MINI's and Mini's get along great!

Here in San Diego we went on a run with seven Minis and six MINIS and the Minis had no problem keeping up and it was a lot of fun.

I'll bet if you give my friend a Mini and you take your MCS on the back roads with lots of curves he will need to be in front so he doesn't run over you.

Earl

I have heard of Classic Mini owners not being welcoming to new MINI owners. Yet I have seen great interest on the part of MINI owners in Minis, in fact I believe (no stats), that the value of the classics have gone up as a result.

I don't understand why everyone can't just relax and have a good time.

Don't see much benefit to MINI service working on Minis, they must be so very different. Though it is nice when there's a classic sharing the showroom to honor the heritage.

it doesn't seem to surprise me that conflicts like this arise. old v. new you're always going to see a clash in purity, design and originality (to name a few). vw is a perfect example. air-cooled v. water-cooled. who cares it's about fun and some of these yahoos make a point to exclude the other. i haven't been to many MINI meets, but what i've seen there seems to be a tolerance in the melding of old and new. can't we all just get along ? i hope the mini/MINI coexistence continues.

I once heard that there are fewer than 10,000 original minis in the US from someone who is a long standing devotee(and who has perhaps the fastest mini moke in the world!) this being the case, it is probable ,as has been said here, that you won't see a whole lot of these cars, even if invited.From inception to the closing of production spanning some 40 years and consisting of 5.4 million cars (second only to the model T ford in prod. #'s) it seems inconceivable that there should be so few of the originals here, but that seems to be the case. I myself had a 68 cooper S that I dearly loved,but by the time I had blown up my forth engine ,I let it go.Sure wish I had it now.Perhaps starting this type of thread on the various Old mini sites would serve to clear the air for what looks to be a storm brewing between the two communities.I think it would be a shame if this was allowed to escalate.Good topic! Jock

In my area we like to see classic minis and invite them but they hardly attend.
We have over 700 MINIs and less than 10 classic minis in state.
One or two of the classic minis are active and may come to an event once a year.

We have much more concern about MINIs and BMWs because we lack a MINI CCA and have to rely on help from our local chapter of BMW CCA. So far we feel welcomed and we are a growning active force in the BMW CCA club.

I think if you set up the events to welcome other non MINIs based on the club members' interests then that is fine.
Ask around, maybe people are more open minded than you might think.

It sure would be nice if we had an MCCA to support both Minis and MINIs!

>>jsun, what do you think the ramifications of MINI only events might be?

I agree with most all of what's been posted here. The main ramification of a MINI only event (as I see it) is that it'd perpetuate a counter-productive animosity between the two marques. Like I said, what's the point?

MINIclo posting from Birmingham, AL on YuccaPatrol's laptop

My experience in SoCal has been one of mutual delight between Classic Mini owners and New MINI owners. In fact, many of the New MINI owners would love to purchase Classic Minis, after seeing them at club events. :smile:

I guess some of the Classic owners may view us as Johnny-Come-Latelies, which is a shame, since I'm sure the upsurge of interest in the Classics is mostly due to the introduction of the New MINI. I'd hazard to guess that the popularity of our MINIs has served to boost the value of the Classics.

_________________

SE Regional, BAMA Club Moderator: PM me

That's really the funny thing about the new MINI. It's spawned a new generation of MINI owners that never really knew much about the classic Mini until they got their new MINI! When I was at my first MINI/Mini meet that involved MOALA, last year, it was sad that the MINI owners and Mini owners were so segregated. They didn't even co-mingle. It was like here's one camp and here's the other. I asked some people to find out why, and many of the the classic Mini owners felt threatened. They said we weren't REAL enthusiasts. Which I guess was true in a sense, but it's really all just relative. Cause now we find there are MINI owners who love the MINI culture, and MINI owners who just wanted to buy the car, and couldn't care less about waving, or adopting the culture.

I ate lunch that day with a classic Mini owner and he was so cool. His Mini was the same color as mine--blue. The difference between us was that I use mine as a daily driver and he didn't.

Finally just a few days ago, I was asked on another forum if my National Motoring Registry (aka FindAMotoringBuddy.com) was only for finding MINI's? And the answer was a distinct no. The tool was designed from the beginning to unite any one that want's to motor in a MINI/Mini. I hope it helps in that end.

A MINI is a Mini is a MINI si a Mini...... those that seek divisions (like the ones that say the "S" is better or cooler or those that say the CVT's are the only answer are, let's called them innate snobs....... to be ignored. I love any and all MINIs, Minis and even Maxis.......and theior owners....even the "evil" in OTP.....hell I even like other BRG job owners (poor souls)

Dave completely loses me when he says that "BMW should also service Classic Minis..." What?

Keep in mind that the inmense majority of classics in the US are at least 20 years and older. I don't understand why BMW should be burdened with servicing these old and often problematic beasts. I see where you are coming from, but your logic is not clear to me at all.

I have seen only one 1999 Rover Mini here in Miami (Probably not legally imported) complete with airbags, 3 spoke steering wheel, Blaupunkt factory stereo, electric canvas sunroof, leather seats, body kit, A/C, power windows and locks, alarm, custom wheels and fuel injected engine. Beautiful car, kept mint and a true showstopper. The only real "new" classic Mini I ever seen in US soil.

But you are telling me that BMW should service it as well?


Unfortunately here in Miami we have experienced the Mini/MINI rivarly from some "close minded" owners. In fact some classic owners diss the BMW MINI as not being the "real article".

What these people fail to realize is that the advent of the BMW MINI in 2002 is what awakened interest in the fairly, until then, obscure and rather unknown classic BMC/Rover Minis and their exisisting club organizations. They owe the new MINI credit for allowing the classics to become so much more popular like they are today.

Many BMW MINI owners today also own a classic Mini. We have at least 2 or 3 members in our club that started with a new BMW MINI and they also own a classic as well.


So my message to the Bill Coxes of the world is this...Please spare us MINI/Mini lovers of the world from your misguided, silly and plain and simple STUPID rivarly between the 2 generations of these cars and their owners.


Finally, the classic Mini was manufactured virtually unchanged from 1959 till' 2001. That's 41 years of the same car that catered to many generations...it was about time to change don't you think? the younger generation deserves a safer, more reliable and better looking MINI and this is exactly with what BMW has provided us with.


If it hadn't been because of the mid 1990's BMW acquisition of the Rover Group, the MINI as we know it would ahve been already DEAD. Rover had no much intention on keeping the car alive until BMW came aboard and recognized the potential it offered for the 21st century.


It is funny, but some 1990's Classic Mini owners that have managed to import these last samples fail to realize that thier very last "genuine" Mini was probably manufactured during or after the BMW acquisition of the Rover Group.

I would go so far as to say that not only should classic Minis not be excluded, but should be openly invited to attend. It works both ways, the original Mini laid the groundwork for our beloved little cars and the existence of the MINI keeps the Marque alive.

Of course, I owned lots of classic Triumphs before I became addicted with MINIs and the only difference between the two is that my MINI always starts in the morning.

>>I would go so far as to say that not only should classic Minis not be excluded, but should be openly invited to attend. It works both ways, the original Mini laid the groundwork for our beloved little cars and the existence of the MINI keeps the Marque alive.
>>
>>Of course, I owned lots of classic Triumphs before I became addicted with MINIs and the only difference between the two is that my MINI always starts in the morning.

I agree that Classic Minis should be invited to events, etc but trust me...in the time we have been working to put up our club together this has proven to be quite a challenge..sometimes classic owners simply do not want to be associated with the new car even if you were to paid them to come to your meets...it is that ridiculous!

There are reasons why most of the MINI clubs formed in the us within the last couple of years are mostly focused on the BMW MINI with the ocassional classic owner showing up.


Face it, the classic and new BMW MINIs are totally different cars and their owners concerns are different on a day to day basis. The Classic owner is more concerned about keeping the rust out of his car and keeping tabs on the Lucas electrical system, meanwhile, the BMW MINI owner thinks about pulleys, air intakes, rear sway bars, speed, etc.


It is just different demographics folks.

>>Dave completely loses me when he says that "BMW should also service Classic Minis..." What?

Admittedly it's cumbersome, but it shows real commitment to the brand, not just paying lip service to the "history" when the new model is a totally different beast.

It's great to say Minis and MINIs are from the same company, but at a corperate level, they aren't treated like that. If Minis did come from the same company, wouldn't the previous model be worked on by the manufacturer now offering the newer model? Remember, Mini made MINIs up until the production of the new MINI began. They weren't imported in this country for decades, but the corporation did make them, and now they don't do anything to acknowledge that in action.



_________________
:: David Bunting :: North American Motoring :: Report a post to a moderator ::

>>>>Dave completely loses me when he says that "BMW should also service Classic Minis..." What?
>>
>>Admittedly it's cumbersome, but it shows real commitment to the brand, not just paying lip service to the "history" when the new model is a totally different beast.
>>
>>It's great to say Minis and MINIs are from the same company, but at a corperate level, they aren't treated like that. If Minis did come from the same company, wouldn't the previous model be worked on by the manufacturer now offering the newer model? Remember, Mini made MINIs up until the production of the new MINI began. They weren't imported in this country for decades, but the corporation did make them, and now they don't do anything to acknowledge that in action.
>>
>>
>>
>>_________________
>>:: David Bunting :: North American Motoring :: Report a post to a moderator ::


Thanks for clarifying your point of view.

_________________
Come and check out our new club:

http://www.minisofmiami.com