... to drag this in a slightly diferent direction ... The Mini was designed and built as a responce to the "bubble" cars invading England from the Continent in the early Fifties - they felt they could build a "real" car to give the buying public an alternative to the light, under-powered offerings from Heinkle, Messerschmidt, and even BMW! ... so the Mini owns its existence to the Isetta.

I think we should welcome Isettas to our meets as well, but I have a feeling others would be aghast to see Them show up ... even BMW dealers don't want them around anymore, and they have the BMW name right on the front!
If you can't buy parts for an Isetta at a BMW dealer (let alone get any service) what chance does anyone think there would be for a BMC product?

 

Don't think this is a disturbing trend at all. Why should you feel you need to 'force' owners of Minis and MINIS together. Let them do what they want. If they want to have events together, let them, if they want them seperate, so be it.

Remember, BMC stopped importing Minis in 1967. So to even think that BMW/MINI dealers would even want to work on these little beasties is absourd. If the 'Classic Mini' is less than 25 yrs. old then it was illegally imported, can you say 'gray' market? Why would MINI dealers want to burden themselves with this headache?

Anyway, personally I think there was more of a seperation two years ago then there is today. Hey, it's only human nature to be skeptical of new things at first. As time passes mutual respect will build and everything will be alright. Don't let the few negatives influence the majority.

I think a quick research into the British Car Manufacturers from the 60's to the present time would be helpfull in understanding many things about British cars.

 

>>Don't think this is a disturbing trend at all. Why should you feel you need to 'force' owners of Minis and MINIS together. Let them do what they want. If they want to have events together, let them, if they want them seperate, so be it.

Interesting. Maybe it was my misunderstanding of the wording of one of the billings for an upcoming MINI event. Then I might have related that to a couple of other events billed as MINI events. Then became upset enought to start this thread.

I don't feel the need to 'force' owners together. However I do take it to heart when a person who states their reason for their MINI only event is due to the fact the classic Mini people had "excluded" the new MINI from events. Shouldn't someone stand up and take the higher ground? Let's tell the world about what the motoring spirit is all about and show them what can be done for the enjoyment of the MiNi for all owners whether Mini or MINI.

 

We've gotten one, count 'em one Mini at a DC event we had about a year ago. The owner was treated like royalty, and his car received a LOT of attention.

I've since been trying to get somebody in the DC area Mini club to respond to me for the past 6 months... Nothing. DC Metro MINIs would LOVE it if the local Mini owners came to some of our events. However it appears they want no part of us. I pulled up next to a gorgeous IB Mini last fall, the guy made a point of ignoring me...

 

>>Here in Alabama, MINI's and Mini's get along great!


Yes they do. In January we had a meet and were invited by the Alabama BMW club to join their first meet of the year. The three original Mini's lead the way into Barber Motorsports park for the BMW meet. Original Mini's leading the way to a BMW club event? That's how much we appreciate the original Mini. :smile:

 

hello all, the wifey and I still consider ourselves pretty new to seen. We've been on a couple of runs, with original and new minis, only problem we have is WE WANT THEM ALL what are we gonna do? Live and let live, minis rule!

 

Think of the whole relationship more holistically. With the classic Mini, most owners are enthusiasts because the cars are, well, classic, and don't just fall into the used car market like your average Chevy Impala. With MINI owners, some are enthusiasts, some stumbled upon the car in the marketplace and bought it. Most of the MINI enthusiasts at least know about the classic Mini, and respect it for what it is and was. Not the same can be said inversely; there will be a mix of classic Mini owners that respect the MINI as the new kid on the block, and others that loathe "the bastard BMW newbies". That's their perogative. There is no reason for a MINI owner to dislike the Mini based upon the heritage, and I would be appauled to hear of a MINI event that actively rejected classic Mini's.

The Michigan MINI Motor Club is so aptly named because the vast majority of us have MINI's, not Mini's. This does not mean we discriminate against heritage, and the proof is in the pudding. Several of our MINI owners also have Mini's. We've had classic owners attend numerous events, and even had a classic Mini Cooper lead our Fall Color Tour.

At this years MINI's at the Gap at The Dragon, there were a few classic's in attendance, much to the delight of many MINI owners. It was great to see 2minis drive his classic Seven instead of his MCS, and even better to hear his war stories with The Dragon! During the Exhaust Shootout, we had one classic Mini show up. We called him upto the mic, and when we finished recording, the audience applauded the classic Mini. Did the audience clap for any other MINI? No way, but we did clap to salute the heritage of the Mini. It was a fine moment in Mini-dom

That's my take,
Ryan

 

BMW didn't make any of the classic Minis that are in this country (or here legally anyway). Minis were officially imported until about 1968, which is about 25 years before BMW took over from Rover who took over after British Leyland who took over after merging with Leyland who took over from BMC who owned Morris and Austin - the companies that manufactured the classic cars that are here today - the same ones designed for the purpose of eliminating the BMWs from British roads in 1959. So should BMW service classic Minis? Much of the animosity started on the corporate level when BMW started legally attacking companies for using the Mini name in their businesses – a name that was abandoned many, many years ago by another company that they had nothing to do with.

I believe that it is natural for classic Mini and new MINI owners to have different interests. After all, what is really similar between the two cars except for the name? The classic Mini culture is primarily geared toward the acquisition, restoration, and preservation of their cars – something that many new owners cannot relate to. I have a 1968 S and a 2004 S and I like them both, but for different reasons. They are just totally different cars. I am not saying that we shouldn’t get along – quite the opposite. But I don’t automatically expect a new MINI owner to be interested in my classic or a classic owner to be interested in my new MINI just because they have the same name.

 

You know there are going to be people out there who organize events and are going to exclude either old Minis or new MINIS. The only way to make your statement to these people is to not attend their events. They WILL get the message. Kind of like that 'club' president that stated "why did we ever let these (New MINIS) into our club". I'll bet that club's membership will drop by 75% in the next year! So maybe the same thing with these seperate events. I don't think we need to tell the world about the MIni Motoring Spirit, everyone that owns one already has experienced it! But maybe sometimes we all need a reminder. I'm off to have some motoring spirit, Classic or New, some of both I think.

 

TOo much breath and time wasted on a issue that isn't going to be solved. There are those that dislike either. Too bad for them. I've read the threads and don't care. I like all british cars. I have a TR6 that I have to rebuild that I put many a mile on from when I was 18-32. When the Miata came out, I used to say "Thats not a sports car" It was envy, the had all the fun and none of the BS maintainence. How many Miata owners had to seperate their steering column to change their oil?

It's all snobbery either way. Harley to Japanes, German to Enflish etc. etc. Nothing you can say will change their minds. Best to invite all and have a great time. Eventually some of the sourpusse will change their tune, and if they dont? Who wants them.


Paul
Have fun, Motor. We all love our vehicles.

 

I honestly believe it depends on the area in which you live, as to how well the Classics and the new get along.

When we lived on the East Coast, we tried very hard to get the Classic community to intermingle with the new - it just didn't work. We made every effort we could think of. We attended several British Car events and the Classic owners pretty much snubbed their noses at us.

We attended Mini Meet East in Charleston, SC in 2002 - not a warm reception at all and that is stating it mildly....so it's not as if we haven't tried...

 

As others have already stated, here in SoCal Minis and MINIs get along very well indeed!

My very first run was with MOALA, when Peanut was only 2 weeks old!! I had absolutely NO IDEA what I was doing, but I did my best to keep up and had a blast!!! All the classic owners were very friendly and some of them even cheered me on!!

Since then I've been on a number of runs with both classic and new, and it's been a blast every time! The one time where we had difficulty was on a hot day and the one classic that showed just couldn't keep up - we were going up some steep hills in hot temperatures and his car just kept overheating... I guess the other classics who were invited took one look at the temperature and decided to stay home that day.

Similarities between the classics and the new?

Both are an absolute blast to drive in the twisties!! Owners of both can have a great time together on runs and get along well. I've had classics push me harder on the twisties than most other drivers!

Differences between the two?

MINIs are pretty much state-of-the-art machines and for all the various problems that some owners have had, they are very reliable cars.

Classics need lots of tinkering and are much more tempermental than the new, hence some classic clubs spend most of their time talking about how to fix (or fix-up) their cars, swapping parts, and actually helping each other rebuild their babies. These things are not likely to interest a MINI owner who doesn't also own a classic. The local San Diego club doesn't have drives very often because it takes a lot to get most of their cars into shape to go on a run...

Dominic, I think that there was a small turnout of classics in Vegas last year because it's a VERY long drive for some of them. I got the impression that a number of classic owners actually tow their cars to events in order to guarantee that the car will be in working order so they can have fun while at the event. You also have to consider how uncomfortable these cars can be for a long drive - no AC; very little, if any, sound insulation; etc. One guy at AMVIV told me that he'd love to drive his car there from SoCal, but his wife would have a fit if she had to ride with him; that's another factor that new MINI owners don't really have to worry about!

 

Ok a note from the den;

It is my observation that generally classic Mini are overwhelmly accepted by both Mini and MINI owners. The promblem usally arises with Classic Mini owners accepting the New MINI. They are of an older generation; not accepting new ideas or change very well. It not so much the car they object to as the the New owners who are younger, have over flowing energy toward their cars and more apt to drive 500 miles for good cup of coffee. I think acceptance will eventually come. I think we need to be who we are and let the classics know their loved.

 

>> One guy at AMVIV told me that he'd love to drive his car there from SoCal, but his wife would have a fit if she had to ride with him; that's another factor that new MINI owners don't really have to worry about!

Au contrair, I've heard this from some wives of new MINI owners as well


All: To move this back slightly onto the topic (not the rift between the classic and new) rather the topic of people organizing MINI only events not including the classic Mini in the billing of the event which could cause classic Mini owners not to feel welcome.

>>I think that there was a small turnout of classics in Vegas last year because it's a VERY long drive for some of them.

12 classics was more than I expected after not getting much of a response on the on-line classic forums and contacting classic clubs. So I was rather surprised. But I know it can be better next year.

As far as distance the classic folks are willing to travel...here's an interesting example: there's an annual classic Mini motoring event held in Europe called the Italian Job. From what I understand it is a 1000 mile rally. Mind you this is a classic Mini only event and they've been doing it for years. Here's a link: http://www.wordserf.co.uk/italianjob/site.html

 

There are lots of MINIs in the pictures, and in pic 18 there's an Aston front and center!! Looks like it's been opened up a bit since you heard about it.


_________________
My MINI makes me want to do the happy dance!

 

>>It is my observation that generally classic Mini are overwhelmly accepted by both Mini and MINI owners. The promblem usally arises with Classic Mini owners accepting the New MINI.

i agree with dragon to some extent. although my experience so far has been that the Mini folks that have approached me have all said "how do you like your MINI" and have followed with " i own an old one" or " i learned to drive on one of those" or " wow! that has a lot more space than mine!"

I'm looking forward to Minis on Top in NH in a month and hope to see at least a couple of the Minis show up. if all i wanted to see was new MINIs i'd go to the dealership.

 

Hey Dominic,
I went to AMVIV and had a great time even though my 04 MCS was just a few weeks old and I didn't know a soul. I thought mixing the classic MINI's with the new generation cars was a great idea; besides seeing all the new cars it gave me an appreciation for the unique design that started the whole thing in the first place. I can understand some of the concerns about driving the Classics to the meet. Think about it some of those csars are over 30 years old, and probalby don't travel well with current freeway speeds being what they are. I had a similiar experience with the LV. Corvette club. I always enjoyed their meetings and events and found them to be a great bunch of people. However driving my 1961 Corvette on some of the 200-300 mile road trips especially in the summer was too much for even a gearhead like me. Eventually I quit participating because I didn't want to spend all the time traveling in a 40+ year old car, risking it on the freeways and refused to tow it. And it's no fun going to a Corvette meet and telling everyone you have one at home in the garage. But my old car was always welcome and I don't recall the age of any of the Corvettes ever being and issue; if you had one you were always welcome. So what does this have to do with MINI's?? Well I think opening the event to all MINI's regardless of type or age is the way to do it. And I urge you to repeat the event next year and again invite any MINI. The relationship between the new and old cars is important to me and I believe many others. If someone has a problem mixing with the owners of either one let them stay away..........mgg

 

>>There are lots of MINIs in the pictures, and in pic 18 there's an Aston front and center!! Looks like it's been opened up a bit since you heard about it.


OK, I'll eat crow. There sure have new MINIs there. I did a quick yahoo search and copied the link and didn't take the time to check out all of their site. I heard about this event from a local Mini owner that regularly attends the event (however were unable to make it in 2003). They were the one to tell me that the organizers do not allow the new MINIs to attend the Italian Job rally. It appears they were mis-informed. In missing the 2003 event it appears they missed out on the fun of seeing new MINIs at that event.

 

It is my impression that all the attention the MINI is getting has also drawn more attention to the original. If I had garage space I would have both. Each is a great car in its own way. I still look longingly at the classic Mini when I see one.

I will always welcome and respect the Mini and if possible, it's owner. Some of the fuss comes from "British Hooligans" who are overly chauvinistic about their cars just the same way they are about British football (soccer). I don't like trouble makers no matter what they drive. I don't think we will find many of classic Mini owners on this side of the pond with that type of bad attitude.

I will be honking and waving at all classic Mini drivers I see.

 

I am particularly proud of this car's heritage. I think it may just take more time for the classics to start accepting us. Hopefully they will realize the the popularity of the new MINI is good for the popularity of the classic Mini.

I know since getting my MINI I often entertain thoughts of finding a classic Mini. Given the right time and a little extra cash it just might happen.

 

I remember when water-cooled VWs hit the market. There were several existing VW clubs at the time and the new VW Rabbit was absolutely state-of-the-art for the period. But the old timers were not happy at all. Although most of the clubs eventually accepted the new cars, the interests of the two distinct groups were very different. The Rabbit guys wanted to do hill climbs, etc. Many air-cooled VWs wouldn’t even make it up a steep grade! The air-cooled crowd wanted to do tech days that had no applicability to the other group. Many of the clubs used to pool money to buy VW parts at a discount. Where should club dues go now that the cars are so different? What kinds of events would be fun for both groups? When Neuspeed and other companies came along and enthusiasts purchased more and more new VWs, the air-cooled cars and people got their own identity and eventually parted ways. I believe we are faced with the same problems and questions now. While clubs like MOALA accept and welcome new MINIs,, the club is and probably will always be geared toward the classics. Miniacs welcomes classics but it is geared toward new MINIs. I don’t think it is a matter of not being welcomed – at least here in SoCal. It is more a matter of what the whole purpose of a club and event is – socializing with like-minded people. I can have fun at any automotive related event because I love cars – Mini, MINI, VW, whatever. Some people like to stay in their own group. As long as we respect each other, that is all that matters.

 

I attended OctCooperFest last year which was sponsored by the NJ Mini Club. The organizers invited the new MINI owners to attend. In the end, there were about a dozen classic Minis of various styles and about two dozen MINIs. A couple of the Mini owners did show animosity towards the MINI and they were more or less scolded by the organizer: "We are all here to enjoy the cars..." (paraphrased).

In PhillyMINI there is one classic owner who regularly attends events and gatherings. He is quite the good natured fellow and we enjoy he and his wife's company and the stories they have to tell. We love seeing his Mini. Partly because of him (and partly because it's one of the few things JerseyGirl and I agree on), I am considering a classic Cooper in the (not too distant?) future and hope I can ask him for help with it.

Regardless whether the car is a MINI or a Mini or even something else entirely, it seems to me a common bond between most Mini and MINI owners is they are "car people". We like cars, we like talking about cars, we like driving cars. To hold a grudge against any other enthusiast simply because of their car of choice is silly if you ask me.

 

I don't think this is disturbing or a trend. To preface, I really like the originally Minis. With that said, if someone wants to have an event without Minis for the sole reason that he felt excluded at other events, let him. I don't think there is a real compelling reason that the two cars have to be included in events together. This is a free country, and I really don't see this as a trend. This appears to be isolated pockets, and it occurs on both sides. This is not any different than the problems that the new GTO owners are experiencing with the older crowd. Some people like them and some don't.

These are very different cars, and while they do have a heritage together, the are large differences in the car as well as the owner base. I enjoy it when the older Minis show up, but like other people said the ratio between the two is huge.

I think you will find more animosity coming from the Mini crowd than from the MINI crowd. This isn't a rip on anyone, but just a fact, and one that has held true across many car lines in which cars come back. In general terms regardless of brand, most of the crowd with the older cars feel that the new product has become diluted, that the it doesn't maintain it's original heritage, that it is just a trend, that.... While owners of the newer models usually embrace the older model's crowd, because they are purchasing the car based on it's heritage and what the car was in the past. There are always going to be critics of the new MINI from the older Mini crowd. So be it, I can understand their issues with the car. If they want to have there own meets, that is fine too. There are enough meets on both sides to satisfy everyone. Remember the meets are for people with similiar interest to get together, and sometimes those are the same interest of everyone in the entire community. If you don't feel the meet agrees with your principles, than don't attend. I think generally that there is good feelings between both crowds, and they are welcome at each other's meets. While there are isolated pockets, I don't think it is a trend. And if they want to have there own meetings, great, more power to them. I still love my car.

 

I owned a "classic" Mini in the 80s in England for a few years - it was fun till I started doing regular 300 mile each way trips. I have owned a "new" MINI since mid 2002.
I joined a local Mini group "New England Mini Owners" (web page here). When I joined they had about 70 members and almost all were classic owners. I found the lack of events frustrating. Many of the members are "in spirit" only. Many go to the same 2 or 3 events each year. Most store their Mini through the New England winter.

I took on the job of contributing editor to their pages in British Marque (which is worth checking out).
I have covered a number of events that I have been on, and have received a very few articles from other people who have been on events.

The biggest difference I find is that the Mini owners in NEMO are not online. Most of the events I have been to have been organized here or on MINI2. The only way for most Mini owners in NEMO to learn about it is to read it in British Marque - assuming the event is planned with sufficient notice.
Remember that many Mini owners have had their car for many years. They have regular friends with Minis and perhaps have no interest in expanding their friendship into MINI owners.

At the NEMO annual meetings I *still* get (hopefully) lighthearted ribbing about the new MINIs ... but I think if the joke is there, the thought is also there as a background.


In 10 years, both Mini and MINI will be "classic" - see what happens then!