I had to stop on a steep hill today at a traffic light, where I needed to make a left turn. It was 85 degrees, so the A/C was on...when the light turned green, I revved the engine and let out the clutch slowly, and I even revved it more than usual, remembering that this is a 1.6L engine and that it needs more revs in the heat, but the car just bogged down and would not move- I had the pedal almost all the way down, but I had to be going 1-2 MPH, almost stalling out, for about five long seconds with traffic behind me before I finally got going. Thank God there was no one in the oncoming lane!

I have version 36 of the software installed. Is there anything I can do to help the off-the-line problems I'm having with the AC on? High performance airbox? Ignition wires? Anything? If not, it's going to be a looong summer.

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<IMG SRC="http://209.61.216.212/upload/gjr/let....jpg">

 

Cost free mods:
* Turn off DSC to get a little wheelspin going.
* Turn off A/C during "launch"

Inexpensive mods for raw grunt:
* Pulley upgrade (for lots of noticable torque)
* get rid of the boat anchors the MCS comes with and get lightweight wheels and tires. (not quite as noticable as a pulley...but what better excuse to get new rims and tires)


The best thing to try first would be the DSC. Then just switching off the A/C during the "launch".

 

Thanks for the suggestions. After reading this post, it looks like the dreaded stumble is still alive and well in my car as well as many others' cars:

STUMBLE THREAD

 

What you experienced had nothing to do with thair. Turn off your ASC or DSC. The computer senses the wheel spin differnetial and screws up the works when making a quick turn from a dead stop. I turn my ASC off ALL the time and have not experienced the problem since...

 

If I peel out, turn on a dime, etc... my MINI will bog down, thinking I'm loosing control. I see it as proof that the DSC is watching over me and will not let me do stupid things and wreck my car.

I never turn off my DSC, I am just aware it's there and when he acts funny, I usually know what I'm doing to cause it.

 

I experineced the same thing... the bog down when I was in florida a few weeks ago with my MINI. I had the air on. It didn't do it when I turned it off.

But come on! I bought a car with air so I can actually use it!

 

Here in Los Angeles, where the weather is normally great, I can easily tell the power loss when I've got the A/C on. I think you just gotta realize, that anytime that power is critical, turn the A/C off for that moment. I do this at stop lights just to be sure. Obviously on the freeway it doesn't matter, but in local traffic, I'll normally just have my windows down, and my A/C off.

 

Ahhhhh, the infamous stumble!

When the weather was warm, I experienced yo-yo a few times even with v37 software. The new v38 will be out soon to address the problem, AGAIN!

 

ZERO problems here in the BLISTERING Miami heat with either '02 Cooper CVT and '04 MCS. Its been here in the mid 80's and ambiental humidity hovering north of 70% and neither car has missed a beat.

The A/C in both cars runs all day long and have not experienced any diminished performance, bog downs, etc...just smooth performance from the get go.


I don't understand why people claim to have the need to turn off the A/C during those "Critical driving moments". My MINIS respond brilliantly to e-gas pedal input with no hesitation...with or without A/C. If you have to turn off the A/C to be able to turn on a dime or get quicker acceleration, something is wrong with your car, period.

Both cars have software version 36 installed as well. TheCooper CVT does not have DSC and neither does my MCS......it only has the standard ASC+T (All season traction control) which is left on 100% of the time.

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'02 Cooper CVT PW/B, MFSW, CD Boost, 15" 8-Spoke silver wheels.
'04 MCS CR/W, UJ Roof Flag, Aux Input, HK, Sport MFSW, Rain sensing, Auto dim mirror, 16" silver V-spoke wheels, Chrome grille, Chrome mirrors, OBC, front fogs.

 

>>Thanks for the suggestions. After reading this post, it looks like the dreaded stumble is still alive and well in my car as well as many others' cars:
>>
>>STUMBLE THREAD



Hmmmm, yeah that thread has not had any new posts since April 19th...

 

Well put it this way. Go drive your car with the A/C and then shut it off and drive some more. Do you notice any performance difference? I sure do. I like to take off hard, and do my shifts at 5,000 to 5,500 RPM's. I notice a difference, in lag time when A/C is on or off. Is it horrendous? Not in my case, but it's noticeable.

Put myself on a steep hill, and even without the A/C going, to get decent speed going, I need to rev the engine much higher than when on flat ground, and I need to slip the clutch a bit. Add A/C to the mix and that's asking for trouble. I'm speaking from experience and my 03 MC. Maybe your CVT or 04 MCS behave differently.

Here's another test. I love driving my MC when I'm alone. I notice the difference an added 150 to 200 pound passenger makes. Not sure if it has more to do with distribution though, since I also frequently haul around several hundred pounds of cargo, and my car still feels fast with similar weights added, just distributed across the rear wheels (rear seats folded down).

My point is that, we all get accustomed to how our cars feel. Everyone's tolerance is different. Sometimes I'll be driving, and forget the A/C is on, and I get the distinct feeling my car feels slower. That's when I realize the A/C is on, so I'll switch it off and it feels "normal" again.


>>I don't understand why people claim to have the need to turn off the A/C during those "Critical driving moments". My MINIS respond brilliantly to e-gas pedal input with no hesitation...with or without A/C. If you have to turn off the A/C to be able to turn on a dime or get quicker acceleration, something is wrong with your car, period.
>>

 

>>Well put it this way. Go drive your car with the A/C and then shut it off and drive some more. Do you notice any performance difference? I sure do. I like to take off hard, and do my shifts at 5,000 to 5,500 RPM's. I notice a difference, in lag time when A/C is on or off. Is it horrendous? Not in my case, but it's noticeable.
>>
>>Put myself on a steep hill, and even without the A/C going, to get decent speed going, I need to rev the engine much higher than when on flat ground, and I need to slip the clutch a bit. Add A/C to the mix and that's asking for trouble. I'm speaking from experience and my 03 MC. Maybe your CVT or 04 MCS behave differently.
>>
>>Here's another test. I love driving my MC when I'm alone. I notice the difference an added 150 to 200 pound passenger makes. Not sure if it has more to do with distribution though, since I also frequently haul around several hundred pounds of cargo, and my car still feels fast with similar weights added, just distributed across the rear wheels (rear seats folded down).
>>
>>My point is that, we all get accustomed to how our cars feel. Everyone's tolerance is different. Sometimes I'll be driving, and forget the A/C is on, and I get the distinct feeling my car feels slower. That's when I realize the A/C is on, so I'll switch it off and it feels "normal" again.
>>
>>
>>>>I don't understand why people claim to have the need to turn off the A/C during those "Critical driving moments". My MINIS respond brilliantly to e-gas pedal input with no hesitation...with or without A/C. If you have to turn off the A/C to be able to turn on a dime or get quicker acceleration, something is wrong with your car, period.
>>>>

Sure there is a difference in the way the car responds with or without the A/C running but in my experience it is not a heaven to earth difference. The car is designed to safely operate with or without A/C in most normal driving conditions. If you find yourself turning off the A/C most of the time because the car bogs down, hesitates or stalls, then there is something systematically wrong with the car. That was the point I was trying to make before.

 

Reread the posts by Minimad and Cooper4us!

I can duplicate GJR’s experience 100% of the time - A/C on or off!

I cannot recommend doing your normal driving with the DSC disabled - but I do strongly recommend that those of you who have not previously owned/driven a car with automatic traction control read their manual until you understand what is happening.

 

There is a marked difference in the performance of my car between the AC being on and off. But I will experiment with it off and see if DSC is the culprit. I just haven't had this happen though in the last six months, and I've been making that same turn- stopped and on an uphill incline- almost every day without a problem. Then today, with the AC on for the first time, bam- the car bogs down like a stubborn mule.

 

I hate to spill the very obvious beans, but most likely it's not the car, but the nut behind the wheel that's bogging the car down


--->davecsumini; V37 did not include any updates for the MINI. Just want to make that very clear.


Fun (but annoying) Trivia. I found out that the MCS seems to have a 2nd speed-limiter when you have the A/C on, set at about 130MPH. Apparently, none of the current ECU tuners have realized this, as this limiter was found on both Powerchip and UNIchip equipped MCS's.

 

FWIW - I turned my A/C off in critical situations - such as turning left on a hill. The car would stall if I wasn't careful regarding the revs...in fact, the car would stall even without the A/C on. I suspect the power steering drains things a bit in turning situations. This was a Cooper, also.

 

>>I hate to spill the very obvious beans, but most likely it's not the car, but the nut behind the wheel that's bogging the car down
>>

If MINI ownership requires the owner to turn the AC off to make a turn, then I guess we're all nuts for forking over our hard-earned money for them. Guess I missed the "automatic AC-deactivating turn signal stalk" on the options list...

 

>>What you experienced had nothing to do with thair. Turn off your ASC or DSC. The computer senses the wheel spin differnetial and screws up the works when making a quick turn from a dead stop. I turn my ASC off ALL the time and have not experienced the problem since...

THIS HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH DSC OR ASC!!!! With the A/C on you will be hard pressed to make the wheel squack or slip with out completely dropping the clutch. The same thing would happen with A/C off but much earlier. The problem seems that the throttle is not as responsive with the extra load of the A/C. So if you do a normal launch, the revs haven't gone high enough for A/C and to move the car and it bogs. Try turning A/C on and tap the pedal. repeat with A/C off. With A/C off, the engine's RPM accelerate much faster.

 

...then again, it's been so long since I've driven a stock MCS, I probably have no idea what I'm talking about.

 

>>Try turning A/C on and tap the pedal. repeat with A/C off. With A/C off, the engine's RPM accelerate much faster.


Try the same thing with ASC/DSC...same thing happens, just to throw a bit of confusion in The RPMs seem to accelerate much faster when the stability is off

 

>>FWIW - I turned my A/C off in critical situations - such as turning left on a hill. The car would stall if I wasn't careful regarding the revs...in fact, the car would stall even without the A/C on. I suspect the power steering drains things a bit in turning situations. This was a Cooper, also.

MINI's power steering is electrically driven, therefore is not sapping power away from the engine like in conventional engine belt driven power steering systems.

 

Cooper4us - - -

The same thing happens to me in my ‘04 JCW MCS - - and after considerable research and reflection I’ve decided that in critical situations - such as turning left on a hill - an increased electrical load only exacerbates the stumbling, bogging, and stalling problem. Since reaching this conclusion I always turn off my lights at night when making left turns. The DSC must really impose a huge electrical load - and really sap the horsepower - because when I turn the DSC off I find that I can do standing start sharp turns at near full throttle without any stumbling, bogging, or stalling - but when I turn the DSC back on and do standing start sharp turns at near full throttle I get the problem every time!

 

The programming that controls the DSC functions appears to be very intrusive cutting off engine power/torque prematurely under certain driving conditions. The DSC is an electronic piece of equipment and it is very doubtful it creates some overbearing electrical load in the vehicle's systems.

Since I don't have DSC in neither one of my MINIs (My '04 MCS has the standard ASC+T) it could explain why I have not experienced these problems. I go up in pretty steep parking garage ramps with the A/C running, lights etc and no problems.


I am glad I did not get the DSC as it is not really needed downhere in the subtropics.

 

Well, all I can say is that doing a left turn on a hill strained the engine in certain situations. What caused this, I have no clue. But the A/C did not help matters pulling into traffic, and exacerbated the problem when making a left - especially onto a hill. When mentioned to the dealer, they had no no real answer. This did not occur 100% of the time, but let's just say the Cooper stalled more than any other car I have driven due to whatever setup is used.

My replacement vehicle has no such issues...

 

>>The programming that controls the DSC functions appears to be very intrusive cutting off engine power/torque prematurely under certain driving conditions. The DSC is an electronic piece of equipment and it is very doubtful it creates some overbearing electrical load in the vehicle's systems.
>>
>>Since I don't have DSC in neither one of my MINIs (My '04 MCS has the standard ASC+T) it could explain why I have not experienced these problems. I go up in pretty steep parking garage ramps with the A/C running, lights etc and no problems.
>>
>>
>>I am glad I did not get the DSC as it is not really needed downhere in the subtropics.

There is a lot of "folklore" about DSC. You have ASC and DSC is only an extension. Neither ASC nor DSC will reduce torque until a wheel is slipping. You don't experience this problem not becuase you don't have DSC, it's because you know how to drive a 4-cylinder car with a clutch. DSC and ASC load down the power system equally, about 500mA at standby and up to 15 Amps during control events. This is nothing for a battery and completely unnoticable at the powerplant.

When I said that A/C decreases the acceleration of the engine, I mean not in gear. The AC presents additional inertia to then engine when engaged. Neither DSC nor ASC will do this, because there is no reason to reduce torque, since the driven wheels are not slipping. If you try to launch normally, with and without A/C and notice your RPM, with A/C on it will take longer to reach launch RPM. The difference is only 100 - 200 ms probably, but it matters, if you don't pay attention to it.