So I just finished up my R56 front brake upgrade on my R53. In addition to the R56 calipers, I also installed stoptech street performance pads with new rotors on all four corners. I also upgraded all the brake lines to stainless ones from Detroit Tuned. Now that the job is all done though I don't feel any difference in the brakes from the stock ones. I realize theses aren't the 4 pot JCW Brembos, but expected a very noticable improvement from stock! Anyone got any ideas? Was my choice in brake pads poor or is it something else? I believe there is no air in the lines and in fact had MINIHaus in Westbrook CT flush the system so I trust it was done right, and I bedded in the pads properly too I think. I heard that the r56 master cylinder will improve pedal feel due to the larger hydrolic capacity it has, but that can't be the only reason can it?

 

 

What were you expecting it to do, that it's not doing?

I found the stock brakes on my MINIs to be exceptionally good, about the only time I could see needing an improvement would be on extended track days.....and then I think it's more down to how I was using them than anything else.

So many people seem to think they need to replace the stock MINI brakes with some sort of BBK, but they only drive in the city - I don't understand this, when the stock brakes are so good already. What are you doing with your car that you think you need even better brakes?

My stock brakes will pretty much put my face against the windshield if I hit them hard enough, I don't know what more you could want from them.....

 

Yeah, I'd only expect mildly better feel but the main draw is the higher heat capacity and fade resistance for the R56 brakes.

I run those pads on my R53 and like them. I'll be swapping to R56 calipers soon and will also run the Stoptech pads.

- Andrew

 

I upgraded them for two reasons. First, I do autoX my car occasionally and plan on doing a track day this year at Lime Rock. Second, I have driven R56's and actually drove a clubman S for 5 days when my car was at the dealer and I could absolutely feel a difference between the two cars braking systems. The clubman had a firmer pedal with a lot more initial bite. So that is why I thought the upgrade might be right for me.

 

Sounds like you may want to try a different pad...just a guess, but since the r53 is lighter, the pads run a bit cooler....so a gen1 jcw pad might be better than a gen2 "performance" pad....
The r56 brakes=r53 JCW....a well liked upgrade....
Most folks love it for street and occasional track/autox...
Maybe you just need a few more days to brake in the pads...

 

The mastercylinder for the R53 and R56 seem to be valved very different on the two cars. The R56 brakes bite super early where as the R53 is much more progressive. Unless you replace the entire system I don't see how you would be able to replicate the feel. Ultimate stopping power is most likely negliable between the two systems but the feel is quite different.

 

Better tires = better braking

 

I track my 05 alot and found that the upgrades simular to yours result in little differance in daily driving. But at a track day with repeated "stand on your nose" braking that's when you will feel the differance. You did not mention brake fluid but that's another change I made. The pedal feel is a little spongy but all day performance driving is great with no fade. Sometimes we think the changes made little differance in fact they did. If you stop a little shorter or a little faster that's important. When you watch racing tenths of seconds ad up. On a track day 1 second improvement on ever corner = 10 seconds at my track. Ten laps and your 1.6 minutes faster.

 

You will get a much better impression with more aggressive pads but, as aptly put by R53 Warrior, the difference in the two systems is neglible. I'm an instructor for a number of club DE programs and, FWIW, I've got thousands of track miles on my car. The stock brakes have never failed me but I religiously bleed the system no further out than 2-3 days before an event. The key is use your brakes efficiently over the shortest distance possible that will slow the car to a speed allowing you to make the turn.

 

Thanks for the input guys! Maybe what I'll just do then is re-bed in the pads just to make sure they are where they are supposed to be. I have fresh fluid in the system now from when it was bled, but didn't want to put the Motul 600 I bought a few weeks ago in until I knew everything was 100% because that stuff is a lot more money than the stock fluid (and yeah I know I need to change the Motul more often ). Hopefully a track day will reveal that thine brakes are in fact better than where it was before.

If the R56 master cylinder is valved differently than the R53 as was mentioned above, than wouldn't it give me the pedal feel I'm after from those cars? If not 100% the sane, I don't see why it wouldn't get me at least a lot closer than the spongier feel I have now.

 

to tighten up the feel get rid of the rubber by upgrading to brass bushings which hold the caliper.. most other improvements are heat management - every system is capable enough to lock your wheels (ABS gets in the way), but not every system can do it over and over again.

I went with the Wilwood BBK setup to add more metal to the system - main reason was that I was cooking my pads at the track.. even with racing pads (Ferodo 3000's) I was getting uneven pad buildup - the pads made a BIG difference in how they clamp, but the softer\aggressive compound was heating up faster and not really compatible with my setup.

phil.

 

The R53 has a master cylinder sized for its stock brake pistons and if you increase the size of the brake pistons (installing bigger R56 brakes) without increasing the master cylinder size then the pedal will have to travel farther to produce the same pressure causing a" mushy pedal" feel. Changing to the R56 master cylinder should fix the mushy pedal feeling.

 

^ that. TyrolSport have been used by several here.

If you're looking for bite, the pad is key, but recognize that real performance pads work better once warmed up but will actually feel softer on the first few applications.

 

Sadly, I don't believe that TYROLSPORT makes them for the R56 or R53 JCW calipers, only the R53 fronts and rears.

 

Thanks guys, I thought I remember reading about some drawbacks to swapping out the rubber bushings on the calipers? I can't remember what they were now, but is this a needless concern?

And I think I will just put in an R56 master cylinder and hopefully that will do the trick.

 

Keep us updated! I may be interested in the MC swap as well.

- drew

 

Will do! It may be a couple of weeks before I get to do it because I just bought a house and have a very large "to do" list!

 

I just did this upgrade on my r53 and noticed a difference. I think the r56 brakes have a much better feel than the r53s overall. I mainly upgraded because I was able to get a set of calipers, pads and rotors with only about 10,000 miles on them for about the same price as rotors and pads alone would have cost which seemed like a good deal since my r53 has 95,000 miles on it.

Did the JCW kit for the r53s include a different Master Cylinder? I was not aware of that. I thought it was just calipers, rotors and pads on the front and pads on the rear.

 

You're correct about the R53 JCW Brake Kit. I installed it on my MINI back in 2007. I don't track my car, but I have auto crossed it a few times. I am very happy with my brake upgrade. I installed stainless lines and bled the brakes at the same time.

While I had it in my shop for the brake installation, I also installed the JCW Suspension Kit. It felt like an entirely different car.

 

The Tyrolsports (and any metal bushing) require periodic maintenance, i.e. re-lubing because of the unsealed metal to metal contact. I haven't found it an issue, but then I live in CA where it doesn't snow and barely rains.

 

That is correct, NC Trackrat. Our Brake Caliper Bushings only fit the R50, R52, and R53 without JCW brakes.

We recommend a re-lube with every brake pad/fluid service, and/or when switching out winter and summer wheels (where winter wheels are required). There is currently a revision in the works with a dust cap to reduce this service interval.

 

If you are referencing the feel of the stock R56 pads, they suck big time. They are difficult to modulate, they have waaay too much initial bite and they dust so bad that one trip across a parking lot will require recleaning your wheels. I have had most of the boutique pads at some time and have EBCs on my 265BHP Pontiac GP with cross-drilleds and slotteds right now, but I found the ceramometallics at Advance Auto to be economical, excellent quality, super low dust and very progressive. You will not have an equal experience with an R53 as detailed before because the car is somehwat lighter and the booster system is completely different, the R56 has an engine driven vacuum pump to provide boost.

 

Don't all modern (and not so modern) cars use engine vacuum to provide brake assist?

 

I would think the same as well. And I could have sworn I read somewhere here on NAM that the R56 master cyl. on an R53 made a positive difference in the feel of the brakes??????