Hello NAM,

I went to a dealership today to look at an 05 MCS and I feel in love with it. However I was able to keep my senses and ask if they minded if I had an independent mechanic do a PPI. The sales guy agreed and we drove it to the nearest mechanic shop I could find that would do a PPI at the last minute on a Saturday.

I met the shop owner and he was very familiar with the Mini and the first thing he asked was if it was a 6 speed. I said yes and he mentioned that he has seen a lot of bad trannys on the 6 speed Minis. He said Mini USA (or maybe he said BMW USA) advises never to change the tranny fluid but he said this is bad advice and the tranny fluid should be changed.

So he took the car for a drive and came back and put it up on the lift and did a complete inspection. The first thing he said was that he didn't hear anything bad with the tranny and he thought it sounded and felt good but that if I bought the car I should have the fluid changed immediately.

Next he pointed to a few places where oil was leaking. Oil was leaking from the Valve Cover Gasket and Oil Pan.

He also had me listen to a vibration on the front left side of the engine. He said that was something to do with the Harmonic Balancer and that it should be replaced.

He also mentioned that the car had electric steering and he had seen the pumps go bad but the one on this car was fine.

After all was said and done he printed out a list of items that should be completed and the cost for repairs.

Here is a summary of the list and total cost.

1. Valve Cover Gasket - Remove and replace
2. Oil Pan Gasket - Remove and replace
3. AC Compressor Drive Belt
4. Alternator Drive Belt
5. Drive Belt Tensioner - Remove and replace
6. Vibration Damper - Remove and replace

Total Bill including parts and labor (including cost of tranny fluid) - $2,321.17

Well I was glad I had gotten the PPI and went back to the delaership with the sales guy. I of course asked the dealer to reduce the asking price by the amount needed to repair the car. The dealership refused offered to lower a couple hundred dollars so I walked.

However I really liked the car and am thinking about trying to renegotiate with the dealer.

The car has a little over 40k miles and was very clean and nicer than the other 2 Minis I looked at after that.

Just wanted to get some experienced Mini owners comments on the mechanic's findings. Does that estimate sound about right for the repairs needed? Is it common to find the car needs these repairs?

BTW - The dealer had a stack of service invoices from the previous owner showing that he had regularly had the car serviced at the local BMW dealership.

TIA

 

that list sounds credible - not sure about hrs * rate = 2.3k

depending on how far that Mini has been driven I would expect some other items as well...

what is the mileage and price on this MCS?

 

Personally I've never heard of a bad 6 speed manual, as far as the mechanic?, there's only 1 belt, not seperate a/c & alt. belts, tensioner maybe, but 40,000 miles would be really early for it to go bad, gaskets are easy to spot, and leaks are leaks, Vibration Dampner?, what exactly is he refering too?

'05's typically are really reliable, and my 6 speed has 183,000 miles on it. And yes the P/S pumps are electric & do go bad, but usually due to overheating because of the P/S cooling fan going bad.

 

I have an 05 mcs 6 speed that had 51,000 when I bought it. I just cracked 71,000 and I've only had to replace the single serpentine belt which cost me like $25. My hydraulic motor mount is leaking/has leaked before I bought it, and that is next on the list. Other than that and a starter bearing that makes noise, this is my favorite car I've ever owned.

Put some money aside for maintenance or repair (oil changes are like $100 at the dealership), and get it.

FYI, if you take it to a mini dealership they will usually do a courtesy inspection for free to tell you what they think.

 

Hmmm... I agree with every darned point. Perhaps I was not sufficiently skeptical on my first read. My 6 speed has 173k on it right now with no issues, and I too am not aware of any frequent issues with that Getrag.

If the mechanic is trying to drum up business though, it's an interesting balance. If he thought the OP was definitely committed to buying the car for some reason, then fluffing up the maintenance list might make him some money. On the other hand if he fluffs it up too much, then the OP might walk away and he gets nothing. Not sure which way that would work.

I just didn't read it as an attempt to gouge or scare. The open question would be the vibration that the mechanic pointed out.

The vibration damper is at the front end (right front from driver seat) of the crank, and apparently should effect the belt drive as opposed to contributing to the overall "shake" of the engine: Ref

"The torsional vibration damper used on the Mini Cooper S engine therefore has the belt pulley additionally isolated elastically from the secondary mass, with belt drive vibration damping. Vibration amplitudes are significantly reduced by the isolated belt pulley. However, the decisive factor is that the most marked resonance is shifted into a zone below idle speed and is therefore outside the engine's operating range, Figure 1."

I wonder what the dealer's comments might be on that vibration. I'm also curious whether the OP agrees with the mechanic's observation on that - is it obvious? A roughness? Varies with engine speed?

If I am trying hard on an inspection, I'd usually use a leakdown test to get a good sense of the overall condition of the motor. Since that is probably not practical, a cheaper alternative might be a mileage sanity check.

I suppose in this case that information might also be hard to find...

I'm left with a basic (and hard-won) principle, which is that it is better to have two viable alternatives to choose from than only one. Is there any other car that has caught your eye?

Cheers,

Charlie

 

Have the dealer do the work. They don't lose the money that way, it just goes to a different department. Valve cover gasket is cheap and easy, so is belt and tensioner.

Better to get an aftermarket harmonic balancer and pay someone to do that..should be $300 or $400 for the part (choose one) and $200 for labor. Another easy job. As far as pan gasket, I would just watch the oil level. They all weep and that is not really leaking in my book.

 

Prices definitely sound a bit high on his end. If you bought it, just get a 15% pulley kit and do the pulley with the new belt and tensioner all at the same time. Parts are not very expensive and the installation shouldn't be that expensive if you take it somewhere else or ask around your local mini sites and someone can probably help.

Valve cover gasket as stated is fairly easy. If you go back to look again, just do a visual inspectoin yourself to see if the passangers side hydrolic mount has blown and kick the front tires to check for any forward and back movement, to tell you if you need new control arm bushings.

 

Thanks for the replies. The car has a little over 40k miles and the dealer is asking $14,000.

This is not a BMW/Mini dealership but I suppose they could fix the problems and then sell me the car but not sure if they are willing to do that.

The mechanic I used seemed knowledgeable about the Mini and seemed to me to be very straight forward about potential issues.

Regarding the tranny comments. He stated he had replaced trannys on 3 different Minis. He didn't say the years but said one was at 40K another at 70k and I cant remember the third.

But what about his comment that the tranny fluid should be changed immediately? Has anyone done this?

His prices might be high and maybe I can get the work done cheaper but what I would really like to know is how severe are his findings. The leaking oil pan and valve cover gaskets?? Should this just be monitored or fixed immediately? Is this common?

The Vibration Damper he is referring to is the Harmonic Balancer. When he showed this to me it was on the front passenger side of the engine. The car was idling and every few seconds you could hear a vibration. He pointed to something down next to the engine block on the passenger side and said it was the Harmonic Balancer vibrating and it should be replaced.

Like another person mentioned I did have to wonder if he was trying to get some extra business for himself if I bought the car and then brought it to him but with a $2,300 invoice he had to consider I may just pass on the car.

He of course checked the suspension and didn't mention any worn items.

Just some more info to see if the price is right. The car has the convenience package, cold weather package and sport package.

Thanks again for everyone's input. I hope to join the Mini crowd soon with either this Mini or another.

 

Hey guys I found this quote on this site about changes that were made to the 05 tranny. Maybe all the bad trannys the mechanic claimed to see were from pre 05s.

"However the biggest change to the drivetrain of the Cooper was the introduction of the Getrag 5-speed gearbox in place of the problem prone and rather ancient Midlands manual unit."

 

Hey guys,

I found this quote on this forum in a stickied thread regarding changes made to the Mini in 05. Maybe the bad trannnys that the mechanic saw were pre 05s?

"However the biggest change to the drivetrain of the Cooper was the introduction of the Getrag 5-speed gearbox in place of the problem prone and rather ancient Midlands manual unit."

 

Just found this thread about changing the tranny fluid at 50k. Looks like an easy DIY so thats cool.

http://www.lonestarminiclub.com/foru...read.php?t=474

 

Parts only
New Crank Pulley (Craven) $140.00 to $150.00 (aftermarket in these is the prefered replacement, just get stock diameter)
Tensioner $110.00 to $120.00
Belt $25.00 to $30.00
Valve cover gaskets are easy
Oil pan gasket.. yes seepage is fairly common, leaking really isn't, if it's not a "wet" leak, I wouldn't worry about it or fix it till it actually starts "Leaking"
As far as tranny, what you found is absolutely correct.
Honestly, labor for the crank pulley, tensioner and belt should only be 1.5 to 2 hrs. Max.

As far as '05's go, if you fix these things, do reg. maint. and watch the P/S fan for failure, you're prob. looking at, at least 60,000 miles before the more expensive maint. items even come into play.

 

That sounds like a good price with mileage that low.
Is it the color you want?
Options?

I noticed most of the 05-06 MCS with mileage close to 100,000 going for $13K to $15K in my area.

Also, some of the issues listed do not have to be corrected right away.

But, if you are uncomfortable, just walk away as another one will pop up on the market you may like better soon.

Good luck.

 

Mine was $16,700 a year and a half ago... Sounds like a good deal to me.

 

+1

I don't think your mechanic knows MINIs, or at least not enough. If you really want to know what might be wrong, get a second opinion.

 

I think a lot of pan gaskets are being replaced for the wrong reason, it's usually the crank sensor o-ring that's leaking, and that's fairly easy to change - and inexpensive. I'd change that first and then clean the pan and keep an eye on it.

As to the others repairs, are you able to do any of the repairs yourself? If so, you can save a bunch of money.....

 

Thanks for that advice. Yes I can do some work myself. I had an 86 944 turbo once and that thing made me learn basic mechanics 101 really quick. I have most needed tools and a compressor.

 

I'd like to know why the guy listed 2 belts....

But on that list I don't see anything that would make me run the other way. Then again I do all my own work.

If you want the car get a second opinion from either an independent shop that specializes in Minis or a Mini dealer.

 

Should you change the crank pulley(harmonic damper, go w/ ATI fluid type. If you have basic mechanic skills, you can do all those yourself. Just get an r53 belt tensioner tool to shorten work time.

 

OK just to be more specific these are the parts and prices from the invoice.

Valve cover gasket - $18.63
Oil pan gasket - $27.50
A/C Compressor drive belt - $41.24
Alternator drive belt - 41.24
Drive belt tensioner - $257.49
Vibration damper - $351.87
Synthetic trans fluid - $91.20 (4 quarts)

he also added a the price for 2 new bonnet stripes (i asked what they would cost since the ones on the car were bad)

Strip tape - 2 @ $55.08 - $110.16

Parts- $939.23
Labor - $1,302

 

The ATI Super Damper isn't a fluid type damper, the Fluidampr is. ATI uses an elastomer design.

 

There is 1 serpentine belt, seepage on the oil pan gasket is normal probably nothing to worry about at the moment. Power steering pumps are known to have issues but if he said its fine it probably is at the moment.Dampers are known to have issues as well, 40k would be pretty low mileage for it to be happening seems to be usually past 60k. Personally I think the price the mechanic told you of over 2k is a bend over and grab your ankles price.

 

That has to do with the Justa Coopers. Pre 05' Coopers (non-s) came with a tranny that had problems. The later models came with Getrag units. All manual transmission Cooper S models came with a 6-speed Getrag unti which to my knowledge is a very sturdy trans and there aren't really any known problems with it. Your mechanic could be talking about transmissions on normal Coopers or maybe he is confused with the Automatic transmissions on Cooper S models which have been known to fail more often than the manuals.

 

dont go to that mechanic. That guy is trying to rip you off. Every car company in the world will have some kind of transmission problem with at least a few of their cars. No such thing as a bullet proof tranny. But I have never heard of 2005 mini's with tranny problems in general. I doubt he changed 3 transmissions for mini coopers. I used to work at a mechanic shop. They say anything to you to build trust. Then they will get you in the end. Dont trust them. The quoted price is way overboard. My estimate is 900-1000 max. Can anyone verify this? any mechanics on here who can give a real estimate?

 

My $0.02 is that the mechanic was generally nit-picking and working either from faulty prejudices or simply incompetent. He also may simply have wanted to give you the maximum leverage in price negotiation. For mechanical inspections like this, it is seldom in their best interest to minimize problems and is in their interest to maximize.

The MCS six-speeds boxes have generally been robust (the five-speeds manuals in the early MC's are the ones generally considered problematic) and Mini says the lubricant is lifetime, although I'm sure a change every 50K or so is probably not a bad idea. But it certainly not a must do at 40K.

The oil leak problems are pretty easy to fix in the locations mentioned and some minor seepage is often easier just to live with it. If it is not leaving oil on the garage floor overnight, it's probably better to just live with it until another repair has you in this area.

Likewise, belts and hoses are replaced on condition and 40K is probably not enough miles to require replacement. Doesn't mean it wouldn't hurt to do them as a precautionary measure, but this is not something that would typically be done to prep a used car for sale. It's a discretionary thing.

Dunno about the harmonic balancer. I'm skeptical you can diagnose that one needs replacement simply by listening to the engine, but perhaps. The tensioner shouldn't be bad at 40K.

In any event, even if the belts were replaced, balancer and tensioner swapped out, lubricants changed, and oil leaks addressed with gasket replacement, $2.3K sounds pretty darn high. There are not expensive parts involved here and I would think this would be perhaps five or six hours labor. I'd think this stuff from an independent mechanic should run perhaps $1K.

This Mini sounds like it is in Okay mechanical shape - maybe it has a deferred maintenance item or two, but nothing major. It never hurts to ask, but you're generally not going to get a car dealer to start doing general maintenance or precautionary wear item replacement for a car they're selling - they'll do something that is broken, but not stuff like this.

- Mark