I'll just post what I asked ninjlao, with all of it's amatuerish quirks, and see if anyone else who has learned from him can offer some insight.....

"
Ninjlao,

I've been trolling your posts on NAM and noticed your input on suspension and wanted to ask for your opinion.

I plan to replace the doors, hatch, hood, front and rear bumpers and fenders with CF pieces and drive, I guess you could say aggressively. I Like my car to handle an like to carve the turns whenever possible.

I have been looking at the Ohlins suspension and feel it may be the best option, but when faced with swapping out the springs with swift springs that brings the price of the system up to almost over $3k. I do plan to do quite a few engine mods as well, such as a port and polished head with new valves and widened exhaust ports (all research says this is a bottle neck, but I think it's that way with all mass produced vehicles....) reduced pulleys, maybe some supercharger mods (I bought a 2005 MCS, used, though I suspect it may have been in an undisclosed accident, but I got it for $15K so I'm not too pressed.)

I noticed you also stated the Stance setup would be good and I have heard nothing more on that subject so I wished to inquire about that as well, as getting swift springs for it would be a more economical option.

Finally, you state the rear suspension setup/design is hampered at best and the most I can determine from this is that you feel the tower mounts should be similar to the front, with three posts. Have you done this yet? Can you give any suggestions? With the price I paid for the vehicle it seems if I can have the correct mounts fabricated that would be ideal. I also am unsure as to whether I should go with 18 inch wheels or if I should stick with the 17 inch size.

Any and all input would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

-H"

 

Also, what is the largest wheel size anyone has put on a Mini with no issues, such as inside fender rub or major height/center of balance issues?

 

There's a ton of people on this forum that could probably help you out, but here's a pretty good write-up on a suspension facelift.

http://www.michiganmini.org/forum/in...p?topic=2455.0

Would note that the BC coilovers ended up breaking on him, but he was happy with them while they lasted and he drove them pretty hard.

Lots of people seem to like Cross Coilovers - ninjlao can probably hook you up with swift springs for them too.

Good Luck

 

Ninjlao came to my attention due to a heated discussion concerning BC and Cross coilovers, and the end result was the valve size in both of those was less than 65mm, and therefore too small. I understandwhere he is coming from as the more fluid that can be moved also means the better damped they are.

I would go Moton, but at $14K, that's just a little rediculous to achieve 4 way adjustment on a car that only cost me $15K. If I was racing and sponsored, maybe, but not when there are so many other things I can and need to do on this car that also would cost below that amount in total.

Has anyone utilized the Stance or Ohlins setup? I would like to know if the Ohlins are worth the price or now more crap manufactured in china with the name still keeping them going.

As I said above, he mentioned Stance in one of his discussions, but did not go further into it, only stating that it would be a good set up. I am only assuming he approves of the valve sizing and therefore would consider them as well.

Thanks for the link, btw. It's very informative and I really appreciate it.

 

bump for anyone that can help me.

 

Bump again for suggestions and additional experience.

 

You really need to talk to the guys at TSW (Texas Speed Works) about coilovers. They have hashed out all of this.

 

I don't remember seeing posts by them. Have they tested the coilovers I am referencing? if not, I'm really not sure what I can learn from them that I have already learned here. Also, last I checked TSW they were offering KW Variant coilovers. If I wanted to go that route, I could just go to New German in Maryland and call it a day.

I'm sorry, that sounded confrontational. I do not mean to be. I just haven't seen anything from anyone that addresses the issues I have been requesting information on, though the link above is absolutely great and I am now looking at pricing out most of it.

To give some background on myself, cars I have modified the suspension on have been Honda Civics (bolt on) S2000 (bolt on) and a Jaguar XJ-S (drastic modification and rebuild) so I don't come into this blind.

I am interested in only about an inch to an inch and a half drop. I have had vehicles dropped 2 inches and it is unbearable on the road, even with drastic suspension modification. As I plan this to be road driven vehicle, with maybe some autocross, I don't see the need to go any lower than that.

But, as I said, the cats pajamas would be Moton and that is WAY out of my price range at this time, so I am interested in either the Ohlins or the Stance, and no one seems to be able to offer any information concerning this.

The only person that could seems MIA, so I am willing to take any informed advice from anyone willing to step up to the challenge.

 

Here is a great read on probably the best compromise for coilovers.


http://www.motoringalliance.com/foru...-you-want.html

From your posts it doesn't seem like you are really concerned about racing, just about comfort. If that is the case get something that has actually been designed around the MINI. Not just some off the wall product. And don't get hung up on the brand. The Ohlins and even the Motons are not a system designed for the street, so why even consider them?

 

I will openly admit I am an aggressive driver, though not exactly a track driver (always wanted to do formula one, but too tall. Damn all the genetic luck...LOL!!!) so I attempt to outfit my vehicles for how I like to drive.

I have just gotten off the phone with Stance and they stated that 46mm is the largest thier valves get and explained why. They also advised me they can adapt thier GR+ 3ways to the MINI, so it looks like that's what I'm going to be going for.

If I'm going to be paying upwards of $3K for a suspension, then I may as well at least get some adjustability beyond a few simple clicks and the Ohlins doesn't even offer that.

Thank you for the link. I will be looking at it as well. I have already priced out the R56 trailing arms and it looks as if I will be undergoing an adventure sometime in the near future.

This is why I love cars, despite the fossil fuels we have to burn to enjoy them, the fact that the vehicles I choose to own have the ability to become so much more than what I purchased.

Which is also why I always buy used as well......

 

I should state that NONE of the brands available now have been "designed for the MINI...."

They are all just universal shock bodies with approximately the same valving as they have made for other applications, with spring rates that should approximately handle the weight of the vehicle they are supporting.

That's business: take something you already have and make the necessary adjustments to sell to a new market.

These things have been designed for the MINI about as much as an off the rack suit or pair of underwear is designed for each person buying them.

That's why they are adjustable.

The Stance GR+ is an application "...designed for the MINI...", and as it is the same shock body as all of their GR's it is child's play for them to adapt the GR+ 3-Way to the MINI as well, with customer preference of valving, spring rate, etc at no additional charge to the customer:

http://www.stance-usa.com/sus/products/coilovers

The only downside is having to wait about 2 months, on the high end, for the customization to be complete. I honestly don't think anyone can ask any better than that for the price their are asking.

 

You could also say the OEM struts are an adapted off the shelf unit.

With as much time as TSW put in developing their units with KW they are a heck of a lot more custom than the Stance unit's. But you can spend your money any way you choose....right or wrong.

 

Do you have any experience setting up a 3 way damper?

Yes it's nice to have a lot of ***** to play with, but you can easily get in over your head. The simplicity of the single adjustable Ohlins can be an advantage.

It does sound like you like to play around with settings (can't blame you, i do too) but a 3 way is a big jump.

Stance gets a lot of hype, but they are not on the same level of Ohlins. I don't care how adjustable they are, I'd rather superior damping and valving control from the Ohlins. There is a LOT more to a coilover then just how many clicks or how many kinds of adjustment it offers.

If you really want to go big, don't bother with the 4 way Motons. You can get JRZ 2 way RS PRO dampers for just under $5k with springs. OR regular JRZ RS 2 ways for a good bit less.

Again, adjustability is overrated if your only adjusting crap.


EDIT: Sorry if i sound harsh, i've been around a lot of different suspensions and have seen a lot of the "hyped" brands being highly recommended by people who don't know any better OR worse, are sponsored supporters. And i've seen a lot of the hyped brands just do plain terrible on the track. But people don't know any better since they've never experienced anything else.


- Andrew

 

nm....

 

The KWs don't have cold wound linear springs. The KWs don't have a separate reservoir for their 3 way adjustables, the KWs are not made immediately to MY specs with no extra charge, but someone elses idea of what they think my ride should be and the KWs are a lower end coilover system that most VW kids have left behind due to some reliability issues, and to be honest the KWs are not what I posted this thread for.

If I wanted someone to try to sell me on a different brand of coilovers I would have gone to the market place or vendors's threads.

I am attempting to be about as polite concerning this as possible, but I would not have posted the thread in the first place if I had not done my research.

I'm not "new" so to speak.

The most helpful thing I have found in the replies so far was the link to ryephile's complete suspension makeover, wherein he essentially gave himself a MINI GP suspension.

I liked that.

It was a direction I had not thought of and something Ninjlao had not even mentioned (though I suspect it's due to his wanting an entirely new strut tower in place of the binding mounting points I have heard mentioned numerous times in threads concerning him or ones he's participated in) and I have taken that to heart and am planning out a similar modification.

I appreciate the information on spring rates, etc, but I already either knew that or had that via other posts that were not trying to sell me on another system.

The correct way to approach this would have been to describe one's experience with another system versus my preferred systems and give the actual pros and cons on why I should have eschewed my prejudices and entertained the possiblity of another system.

I came from the Jaguar world. I know snake oil when I smell it. At least try to coax me into it, not shove it down my throat.

Does anyone else have any insight on the systems I have been asking about? Any opinions or actual experience? That would be greatly appreciated.

 

edited....thought you were upset at me....lol.

 

Thanks Andrew! That's exactly what I have been looking for!

Can you tell me your experience with the Ohlins? Do they have pillowball mounts and camber adjusters? Do they include linear springs in a preferred rate? can I requesst a spring rate? Why are you selling them?

I was going to go Ohlins at first, but just thought that the initial price, plus swift springs was just too much for what I was getting out of them.

IOW, I found the lack of low and highspeed bump adjustment, especially on the streets around the Metropolitan DC area, to be lacking.

Does the Ohlins valving account for this oversight? Are they essentially valved so well that the additional adjustment isn't necessary?

I have absolutely no experience with Ohlins, but know they are the top motorcycle and rally brand and wondered how that would translate to the road....

I also have no experience with JRZs. To be honest, I didn't even know the brand existed.

I have worked with 2 way and 3 way adjustables, mostly Koni and H&R, and have experienced Bilstein due to the Jaguar, which I always found to be a little on the soft and mushy side, though that could also be attributed to the 4K lb heft of the XJ-S, so I have some idea what I'm getting into, but the MINI is an entirely different animal and I appreciate that it will require a different approach.

If you can provide me with a bit more information I may just be interested.

 

I'm not going to say KWs are not good coilovers, I just did not appreciate the blunt edge approach of attempting to sell me on them with no information besides a couple of links from the seller.

I have always learned that to be suspect and also, again coming from the Jaguar world, have been slighted one time too many by people cheerleading for a certain vendor or manufacturer or two to only be burned by the same vendors or manufacturers by some undisclosed part of thier product, such as an aluminum radiator "...custom designed for the XJ-S..." only to learn the vendor had not done something has simple as include or even thread the fittings for the english thread the XJ-S had, thus learning, after having gotten hip deep into the project, I had to mutliate my hoses in order to fit them to the new rad, the old rad being less than road worthy to put back into the vehicle.

You can see where I would be hesitant in the approach taken....

 

No, I am not angry at you or honestly at anyone. I respect how you prefaced your argument and therefore elected to take up a further dialogue with you.

BTW, are the Sportlines the model introduced for the MINI? I could have sworn there was another model introduced not too long ago, but cannot find the information now.

 

I work for a race shop and Ohlins offloaded a 2 sets of them to us at a good deal. They do this every once in a while when certain products are moving slow and they make room for things that sell quickly.

I was thinking about putting a set on my own car, but just don't have the cash at the moment.

They come with 6kg front, 5kg rear Eibach linear springs. Front non-adjustable plates included, which is definitely lame, but you can use another brand camber plate instead. They are built in Japan to Swedish specs. Any requested spring rate would have to be extra since we have these sitting here....sorry. :(

Here's a thread with a review:
http://www.motoringalliance.com/foru...vers-mini.html

The history behind JRZ, Moton, AST, KW, and Koni is all entertwined somehow in a weird family tree. Koni was first, and the other 4 lead engineers left at some point to start their own companies. I think Moton may have split off JRZ, but I'm not sure. JRZ, Moton, and AST have some similar features internally, but depending on who you ask, they'll all say their stuff came first. I'm inclined to believe the JRZ guys because their east coast lead engineer is in my building.

Ohlins kind of came up on their own, starting with motorcycles and moving on to 4 wheels back in the day. They've done pretty well and their DFV (Dual flow valve) technology is nice....pretty digressive blow off at higher piston speeds. It's a nice digressive curve.

Bilstein, I'm not sure what their story is but i do usually like their shocks, especially when custom valved.


JRZ is fantastic....Bryan literally puts them together himself and i've watched him revalve some ALMS Porsche shocks while giving me a lesson on the JRZ shock philosphy (and shocks in general). Essentially handmade, custom for each customer, not just application. Not cheap, but as I said completely customized for you with your input for a double adjustable monotube with remote reservoir. He can set the curves any way you like, and set how the adjustments affect them.

Here's a set for Subaru on our shop NASA time trial car:




- Andrew

 

Understood.

Ohlins only offers the DFV Sportline at the moment.....in the past it was the PCV Sportline. Basically for PCV, it's a blow-off valve for the compression valving to soften high speed damping. For DFV, it adds the same thing to rebound.

Also, the rear damping adjustment on teh Ohlins is on the bottom.

They may also make some motorsports only super expensive stuff too.

- Andrew

 

Okay, I'll address both your posts at one time.

First, that is ALOT OF GREAT INFORMATION!!!!!

I really wish I could have found you when I was working on my Jaguar project, I'm willing to bet you could have gotten me around some major design issues.

It seems that for ease of a daily driver system, not something absolutely high end, possible auto crossing, and essentially "set it and forget it" unless autocrossing, Ohlins is the way to go, which essentially brings me back to my first choice.

Depending on the price, I may just take those off your hands. I will have to look at what the wife will let me spend at one time (Had to get new shoes for the trixster last weekend and she just took an expensive trip out of the country to visit a fading relative. I unfortunately could not accompany her....) but it looks as though either way, that should be my end goal. I can always get the 300 or 400 lb springs from Swift later. She's been more than tolerant concerning my projects, but I try not to push it.

It would be about 3 weeks before could provide the definitive (that's when she returns), and if I don't achieve getting them from you, I could always just get them later. I fully understand the need to make a sale, as long as it's respectful, as you have been, and can fully understand if someone scoops them out from under me in the meantime.

One more question: What is the valve sizing of the DFVs in the Ohlins? I would think it would not have to be too large since there is now two versus one.....

 

Glad to help. Agreed on the Ohlins being a great "set it and forget it" solution. Makes things easy, so you can just get in and drive.

No worries on the wait...totally understand on the wife. I'll PM you pricing info as i do not want to **** of moderators. The Mini thing is sort of my own side project for us since i got my 05 this year, so we're not fully into everything yet.

As for valving size.....that's going to be tough to get from Ohlins. They are very secretive, which I do not like but have had to accept. They don't even release shock dyno plots for their street kits, and dislike when their vendors dyno the shocks and release them themselves. Releasing valve sizing could knock their owner out of his hot tub in Sweden that's probably filled with blondes and champagne.

- Andrew

 

Thanks for that. I will await the PM. You've been a great help. Good on ya!

 

HQ......if you had simply given the guys at TSW a call you would have found out that they have a lot of info about MINI suspensions. They developed their own line of very successful springs. They also spent a great deal of time with KW at the track developing the KW's that they carry. They are serious MINI owners. I was not trying to sell you anything, just trying to offer a very well respected, MINI oriented view on the KW's.

But then again you had already made up your mind, so I am sorry to have rained on your parade.

Enjoy !