Looking at purchasing an 06 MCS auto. It is my understanding the automatic unit is an Aisin 6-speed, model AW TF-61SN.
I searched around here, a lot, on Google, Mini2, no luck.
What I am trying to find is some tech references or a tech manual. Specifically, I need to know what ATF I need to use and what the drain interval is.
The used Mini we are looking at is at around 56K miles and what sucks is that we do not have a service record attached with the car.
The Aisin is a sealed unit. Not having a dipstick makes it tough to check the condition of the ATF. My plan is to take it to a BMW dealer and have them flush the ATF and I will specifically ask them to hold some old fluid for me so that I can analyze it.

Thanks for any info you're able to provide. I was able to find the tech docs for the CVT fairly easy. For some reason the Aisin unit seems to be secretive ...

 

Called our local MINI dealer and according to their service dept, the ATF does not need to be serviced until 100K miles. Certainly puts my mind at ease, assuming their figure is correct.

 

Not related to intervals but check the following info too...

From minicooperforums.com:

6 Speed Automatic Transmission GA6F21WA Cooper S Only
83 22 0 402 413
MINI ATF JWS 3309
1 Liter Bottle
Note:
-Pan removal requires 4 liters to refill.
-Torque Converter replacement requires 4.5 liters to refill.
-Transmission replacement requires 6 liters to refill.

 

So I have the transmission part number/model wrong?
Googling the model mentioned by you yields more results.

 

I want to confirm that when in manual mode, the Aisin does not downshift to M1 when at a complete stop. Seems that mine always downshifts to M2.

 

I am pretty sure that is correct, others can confirm.

Pat

 

I don't think the Aisin has a Torque Converter. Its clutch packs is how it works. So I am not sure thats the correct one but...

The Drain and change interval is "livetime" so anything reasonable is better than that. It does have a fill hole and drain hole so its done like a Differential.

 

No torque converter?

 

Not as I understand it. It is a series of Clutch packs. And it alternates from one to the other set. It is more of a "Semi Automatic" Or an "automatic manual" in that way than it is automatic. At least as I understood it. Do you have the Bentley Manual?

 

I do not have the Bentley - I wish I did! The only thing I can do is look on RealOEM.com. On there, the Aisin 6 speed auto shows a torque converter - part #24407566368 at "only" $1,713.72. That's why you got the confused smiley from me above.

 

Yea. Your having the same problem I had and am still having... WHICH Aisin is it. I found at least five different ones. And two references to model numbers. One indeed did have a TC. However I was inclined, due to the way this thing shifts, to disclude that one as being the one. I don't really have anything concrete to go on. Some of the other ones are more like a DSC tranny. It just does not behave like a TC tranny.

I do know this one shifts without the slush. It is solid firm and very quick. And it engine brakes just like a Manual when it downshifts. A TC would pretty much not allow that. I do not know how clutch packs could work with a TC either. So its all still a mystery to me. I imagined that the Bentley might shed some light on that.

 

OK the Bentley says this

Cooper S Aisin Automatic with Agitronic is the GA6F21

Service interval is "life time".

Approx capacity 6.0 Liters (4.8 qt.) When replacing oil sump (whatever that means) 4.5 L (4.8 qt)

Oil Spec ESSO JWS-3309 ATF

****It does show a TC once the transmission is removed**** so you are correct, this tranny has a Torque Converter.

It also comes off and indicates it would have fluid in it. But I see just two special bolt holes to remove it. Doesn't exactly look like your typical one but it is round at least. I do not thing there is a total break down in here after that but I will keep looking.

This above just confirms some info already posted except I am unsure of the TC vs Just drain fill.

 

This is the Bentley for 2002 through 2006 by the way. I just got it and haven't even had a chance to look through it yet.

 

Here is the parts layout of our Aisin TF60SN from www.automaticchoice.com

 

I also noticed right away that the transmission acted as if there was no torque converter. I own an auto Legacy GT and that thing has a high-stall torque converter from factory (3400rpm). The difference was night and day.

Here's what I am suspecting. The torque converter on the Mini not only is low stall, it is probably programmed to be locked up by default, whereas traditional torque converters are unlocked unless you are cruising.
The Aisin unit seems to be more or less a "traditional" auto in the sense it makes use of clutchpacks and gears in a familiar way. I don't see how such a tranny would be able to be in gear at a full stop and not stall without a torque converter.

Are we 110% absolutely sure without a doubt that the 1st gen Mini S uses the TF60SN unit?

 

According to RealOEM.com, the unit in the R53 MCS is the GA6F21WA, but that doesn't seem to correspond to an Aisin part number. The document posted for the TF60SN doesn't reference MINI at all (but does reference BMW/VW/Skoda), and that makes me a little skeptical.

 

Yep.... thats the problem. I did see one old article written before the Aisin was adopted discussing one of two Aisin numbers, TF60SN being one of the possible options. And IIRC a TF80SN as the other? But it was speculating and then there was never any indication after that of if it was one of those, or a beast all its own.

I can tell you that the picture of the TC shown in the Bentley manual shows an almost flat face. Not exactly the contour of the one shown in that diagram of the TF60SN, which is more typical of the face of many TC.

 

Might be a custom version of the TF60SN made to BMW specs. The Ford version is at least somewhat custom for them. Given the size and specs of the transmission, it almost has to be a variant of the TF60SN design.

 

Have you ever seen a BMW with an Aisin auto transmission? So, the BMW name on the parts list can only lead to the conclusion that Mini is meant there. I doubt there are other Aisin applications in the BMW world except Mini. For all BMW's, they are working with ZF transmissions AFAIK.

As for the Aisin TF60SN, Ricardo had done a benchmarking study:
http://www.ricardo.com/en-gb/Enginee...y-benchmarked/
The Aisin TF60SN is also used on all VW Group 1.6 8V, 1.6 FSI and 2.0 FSI powerpacks (Audi A3, VW Golf V, Jetta, Passat, Skoda Octavia...).

I couldn't find the proof at Aisin's website but I remember that the TF80SN was destined for North-South engine installations whereas TF60SN is strictly limited to East-West installs ie FWD. Need to check...
http://www.aisin-aw.co.jp/en/02produ...1ff/index.html

Since there are no other 6-spd electronically controlled auto transmissions in Aisin's line-up, it has to be the TF60SN but to prove that hypothesis, I need more proof

 

Point taken. Would love to see more proof/tech data.

 

Has a Torque converter heres a picture


Here is a piture of most of the transmission

 

Wow.... that pic makes me feel like I'm gonna throw up... given that mine is getting a little flaky now...

 

Wow! Is that your transmission?

and what happened to that autobox so that it got opened up?

 

3rd to 4th shifted funny then really hard. I would say it started slow and got worst. Started around 90k and just got worst and worse until 102k. I went for the rebuild when the shifting got dangerous. I would lose power when it tried to shift in to 4th. It would try for a couple of seconds up to 5 or 6 seconds with no power. Kinda like the car was in neutral and waiting to shift. It would then shift very hard into gear. It doesn't do it everytime because the computer trys to compinsate for it. It's a loss of pressure in that clutch hydrilic(sp) thingie. My clutch rings were worn down. If you notice in the picture the fluid is brown and not as red as it should be. I had alot of metal power in the pan too.

 

How much for the rebuild then? Any predictions?