Last fall, I had a conversation with an aftermarket tuner that handles MINI's - he mentioned that he thought MINI should only have introduced the Cooper S in the US. He pointed out the long wait and demand for the higher horsepower car bore this out. He wasn't saying this in a derogatory manner, after all I was there with my Cooper. I think he meant more that MINI underestimated the demand for the MCS and how it would be embraced from a tuning standpoint and the days of people wanting a low HP car are numbered.

I can't say I agree - the three models in the MINI line each serve a purpose. And to state the obvious - by "limiting" production, it creates more buzz about the car, more demand and sales. I was at my dealer last Saturday - the lot looked bare, there was a 3 month wait for an MC and 5 for the MCS. nothing available on the lot. Now I know this isn't true nationwide, but what from I can see - MINI and BMW know what they're doing in this case:

You can buy a car for $17K that has a excellent handling characteristics and causes some to lust after more power - so they trade up to an MCS after a few months. Or buy a second MINI. Add to that the fact that some dealers are next door to a BMW dealer and a soon to be introduced 1 series to keep brand loyalty.
I look at the cars I've owned - an 82 Celica GT hatch, 92 Accord, 99 VW GTI and an 02 MC. 3 of the 4 are hatches, all 2 doors. Outside of a Porsche 911, a 2 door BMW 3 series is what I have wanted for as long as I can remember - specifically an M3. So from my perspective, BMW knows exactly what it's doing - because everytime I walk into the service department and see an M3 pre-owned sitting there, I stop and look.

sorry for the ramble...

 

There sure isn't a shortage of Minis where I live.
I was just up to Fermin Mini in Tampa for my suspension bolt recall.
There must have been 30 or more Minis on their lot. (way more---forgot about the storage lot).

Initially I was prepared for the long wait too. I called Fermin to ask about giving them a deposit and how long the wait was. The guy says what are you looking for? I told him Electric Blue MCS, R90s, Lapis interior, and all the packages except cold weather and Nav. He said come on down. There's one sitting right here!! The very next day I drove her home.

I've often wondered why people will anguish over a four month (or longer) wait when all they'd have to do is buy a cheap coach airline ticket to Tampa, plop down their bucks, and drive their new Mini home. Not only would that take the wait out, but it would sure be a fun way to break in the car.

It baffles me....

Yfoiler

 

I don't know how a runaway success can miss its market. What does he want? People to have to wait a year for a car? The Cooper is a credible alternative to traditional Civic and Golf buyers who want a little more character in their cars, but still care more about gas mileage than performance.

When you conisder the Euro line-up there are four models and the line is a major hit compared to the VW Beetle-redux which reportedly has bombed in Europe. The Cooper doesn't need more performance. I think it needs more economy. Maybe it's time for the diesel to make it stateside debut. Diesels are scheduled to make a resurgence with Chrysler and other dealers over the next few years and from a report I saw a few weeks are far better developed engines than the last go around.

 

I don't think MINI missed the market by any means, they nailed it!!!!
Keeping MCS supply short will only help it in the long run.
The MC outsells the MCS by what, 3:1 or something like that?
In the UK there are currently 4 models (MINI One D, MINI One, MC, and MCS), and there will be 5 when the convertible comes out. If you consider the JCW a model, you could even say there are 5 now and there will be 6 in the UK.

 

>>I don't think MINI missed the market by any means, they nailed it!!!!
>>Keeping MCS supply short will only help it in the long run.
I agree completely. The short supply meshes with what I've read about how the marketing strategy for the MINI has been modeled after that of Harley Davidson.

If successful, they'll avoid the boom and bust novelty sales cycle of the new VW bug, and the PT cruiser. At first they're rare and cool, then everyone has one. But, for this to be successful they need something more than just interesting styling. Where Harley has the V twin single-pin exhaust sound, and the image of the bad-boy biker, MINI has amazing handling and a kind of buttoned-down, cool, 60's-ish British thing about it.

I think that BMW may also have the MINI positioned as an entry level vehicle for the rest of their line. Its a fast cool car that someone fresh out of college can afford. The only problem here may be getting them to let go of the MINI to move "up" to another BMW model. Of course when if you eventually have a family, and need more room, you'll probably need to add another larger vehicle. So that could work.

 

mini is still a niche market compared to most models....under 25K a year US. BMW certainly is not going to increase production for the US market as new cars come out, especially the new 1 series. Many enthusiasts have already purchased a MC or MCS. The MCS has waiting lists in some areas because it's distribution is only a 1/3 of the MC, again smart on bimmers part to keep some sizzle and demand in the product as most places you can get a MC immediately. They certainly didn't want to repeat the bug and PT Cruiser longer term marketing slip by producing more than 80K a year for US. A Cruiser that was listed for $20K sold for close to $25K at the start, that same Cruiser can be had for under $15K today with 0% financing. The Cruiser demand lasted for a couple years. it will be interesting to see how long the demand is there for minis even at the lower production of under 25K. One thing for certain, minis will eventually be discounted just like any car and you will be able to drive it right out of the lot the same day....just to much competition and too many great cars coming out the next few years. Certainly think the MCS Works would be a nice marketing shot in the arm for sales with the performance mods and a few different exterior mods in the next few years, but not at the outrageous price currently, everyone here knows what the real cost for those simple mods are....certainly not $5K add on, love to know what Cooper Jr's take is, lol ! Even Chrysler knew not to gouge on the new Turbo Cruiser list price. Having a MCS, I think the MCS Works is the car the S should have been from the start because IMO the performance difference in the MCS & MC is just not that big a deal except on the expressways at high speeds, certainly not at the low end around town where i do most of my driving....will be fun to see how the marketing plays out over the next few years and if the coming convertible will sell, looks awful to me, like the VW Cabrio which I never liked, maybe the new teenage chick car from daddy, but I'm a traditionalist having one of the classic minis in the 70's.

 

A wise man once said: "fo shiz is relative." -- Albert Einstein.

The MCS is not a very fast car. It's the existence of the Cooper that makes the S seem so powerful. Similarly, in Europe, the Cooper is considered to be the "souped up" version of the One.

Besides, not everyone appreciates the extra power afforded by the MCS, and certainly, many folks prefer the gentler ride and smoother appearance of the Coop.

 

>> There sure isn't a shortage of Minis where I live.
I was just up to Fermin Mini in Tampa for my suspension bolt recall.
There must have been 30 or more Minis on their lot. (way more---forgot about the storage lot).<<

MiniUSA needs to look at the dealer distribution system they have. There's no reason for one dealership to have that many on the lot while others have no stock at all! If they enforced a limit each dealership received, the cars would be better dispersed which would help sales overall.

As it is, Fermin has so many they are selling cars to the local BMW dealership here in NC (and who knows where else), who in turn is selling them quite quickly.

This is hurting the Mini infrastructure in a couple ways. One, there are certified dealers in other parts of the country who can't get cars because of the number Fermin, and others, are buying. If I was one of these guys who spent good money setting up a dealership only to have nothing to sell, I'd be pissed, to put it mildly!

Another way this hurts things is that it cuts into the number of sales the NC dealer makes. Sure the BMW dealer here can get away with selling the cars, but the dealership is the one who's going to have to do the service and warranty work. They're getting stuck working on cars that they were cut out of making the sale (and profit) on. Again, someone spent a good deal of money to become the dealer in the area only to be cut out of part of the benefits of doing so.

I'm not associated with any dealership talk about here. I'm just stating my point of view of what I see is a problem that needs to be taken care of by Mini. This could dissolve dealer satisfaction with Mini Corp., which in turn may keep the dealer from going the "extra mile" for the consumer.

In closing though, I'd say Mini didn't miss their mark with the American market, as proven by sales of both models. It does miss somewhat on the dealer level.

 

>>The Cooper is a credible alternative to traditional Civic and Golf buyers who want a little more character in their cars, but still care more about gas mileage than performance.<<

Nicely put. That line about the days of people wanting "low" horsepower cars being numbered is total crap. Fortunately, there will always be people in this world who think about the consequences of their consumption and aren't always seeking to maximize everything, and who actually prefer (gasp) conserving resources (and saving money) to keeping up with the Joneses.

 

I agree, there seems to be something wrong with the distribution. MINI North Scottsdale always seems to have only two or three cars, max, available for purchase off the lot. Many times I have been there, there's none available for purchase. Go figure. I certainly don't understand why they don't get a better allotment.

 

>>I agree, there seems to be something wrong with the distribution. MINI North Scottsdale always seems to have only two or three cars, max, available for purchase off the lot. Many times I have been there, there's none available for purchase. Go figure. I certainly don't understand why they don't get a better allotment.<<

Does this necessarily have to do with their allotment? My understanding is that dealerships use their allotment to fill the orders of people on the waiting list, and cars only end up on the lot for sale if someone backs out of their order after the car has been produced. It doesn't sound like there are many dealers who are ordering cars to sell on the lot for lack of custom build orders.

 

I don't know if anyone knows this, but I will try to explain it as best as I can. BMW as a company does not just produce cars and send them to a dealership. EVERY BMW manucfactured automobile is ordered by someone. Whether it be a dealer, or a customer, the car is physically picked out by a person with exactly the options they want on the car. The dealership decides how many cars they order, and how many they keep on their lot (besides people buying them at a mad pace). With this being said, and being an employee of BMW Group, the sales of the MINI have been increasingly more than we expected every month. The sales of the vehicle continues to exceed our expectations and at last check we have currently sold 26% more MINI's this year than last. This is why the dealerships do not have to come off of MSRP for the car and are sometimes marking them up. They figure with a car that is so hot, they will not have to come down, and obvisouly it is working. I hope this sheds some light into why you don't find many MINI's just sitting around on lots across the US.

 

>> cars only end up on the lot for sale if someone backs out of their order after the car has been produced.

So places with 30 cars on their lot, must mean there's a lot of people who lost out on the $1000 non-refundable deposit?! So the dealer's already made $1000 on the car that sits on the lot. Then many get to get even more by adding markup.

 

>>I agree, there seems to be something wrong with the distribution. MINI North Scottsdale always seems to have only two or three cars, max, available for purchase off the lot. Many times I have been there, there's none available for purchase. Go figure. I certainly don't understand why they don't get a better allotment.

I used to envision a MINI line just north of Richmond. It seemed that most southern dealers would have Minis readily available while once you got north of that line and staying near the course (excepting of the course the intrepid gang at Mini of Hamptons) that there were usually long waiting lists for Coopers. I never did the research on this but on here, it seemed like that this was also the situation in California.

I believed this to be a social condition. Northeasterners I think tend to be association with the Anglican identity strong. Californians? I can't explain with that theory except for their reputation as being most in tune with new trends.

Just a hunch.

 

When I was at Scottsdale MINI 2 weeks ago they proudly told me that they are the largest MINI dealership in the world. A few minutes later they mentioned that there wasn't a single car in stock.

 

HA HA! I guess they were talking about the size of their floor space!!!

 

>>>> There sure isn't a shortage of Minis where I live.
>>I was just up to Fermin Mini in Tampa for my suspension bolt recall.
>>There must have been 30 or more Minis on their lot. (way more---forgot about the storage lot).<<
>>
>>MiniUSA needs to look at the dealer distribution system they have. There's no reason for one dealership to have that many on the lot while others have no stock at all! If they enforced a limit each dealership received, the cars would be better dispersed which would help sales overall.
>>
>>As it is, Fermin has so many they are selling cars to the local BMW dealership here in NC (and who knows where else), who in turn is selling them quite quickly.
>>
>>This is hurting the Mini infrastructure in a couple ways. One, there are certified dealers in other parts of the country who can't get cars because of the number Fermin, and others, are buying. If I was one of these guys who spent good money setting up a dealership only to have nothing to sell, I'd be pissed, to put it mildly!
>>
>>Another way this hurts things is that it cuts into the number of sales the NC dealer makes. Sure the BMW dealer here can get away with selling the cars, but the dealership is the one who's going to have to do the service and warranty work. They're getting stuck working on cars that they were cut out of making the sale (and profit) on. Again, someone spent a good deal of money to become the dealer in the area only to be cut out of part of the benefits of doing so.
>>
>>I'm not associated with any dealership talk about here. I'm just stating my point of view of what I see is a problem that needs to be taken care of by Mini. This could dissolve dealer satisfaction with Mini Corp., which in turn may keep the dealer from going the "extra mile" for the consumer.
>>
>>In closing though, I'd say Mini didn't miss their mark with the American market, as proven by sales of both models. It does miss somewhat on the dealer level.

I spoke with my MA the other day and she said they WERE changing the way allocations were handed out to dealer (i.e. giving more allocations to dealerships that have a long wait) Should be starting the end of this month.

 

His statement is silly... VW does not ONLY import the Beetle Turbo or GTI, even though the base model of both body styles only come with 115hp engines (in a 3000 lb car too!), there are many more examples of models that have a lower and higher performance sub-model. Plus, look at all the base Honda Civics out there with mods... each one takes a chance on getting spanked by a Civic Si, but they still sell.

 

When I was at Scottsdale MINI 2 weeks ago they proudly told me that they are the largest MINI dealership in the world.

well, I don't know about that, but I bet the service department there is the worst MINI service center in the world, laugh ! I've owned a lot of cars, but never have experienced as bad a service center. The sales center is ok, but really how good does it have to be, more just an order taker center, laugh ! Fortunately there other places to buy a bimmer as my wife purchased hers from Chapman BMW, just a terrific dealership, but unfortunately no mini because of Penske's clout getting the dealership for Arizona....

 

>>>>The Cooper is a credible alternative to traditional Civic and Golf buyers who want a little more character in their cars, but still care more about gas mileage than performance.<<
>>
>>Nicely put. That line about the days of people wanting "low" horsepower cars being numbered is total crap. Fortunately, there will always be people in this world who think about the consequences of their consumption and aren't always seeking to maximize everything, and who actually prefer (gasp) conserving resources (and saving money) to keeping up with the Joneses.

I agree. I would have considered a Cooper rather than MCS if I didn't live at altitude. I decided I wanted more power getting up and down the mountain every weekend. I like the character of the MINI, otherwise I would have looked into GTI/Golf, etc. I've never seen myself as a "car person" who is into horsepower and mods...although I must admit the MINI has opened up a whole new world for me! Still, "missed the market"...I don't think so. They wisely provide different options for different people.

 

The "aftermarket tuner" is merely showing his ignorance and bigotry. Obviously, he has a vested interest in selling expensive 'performance' aftermarket parts. He clearly would have no interest in someone who's NOT forking over the rent money for tuned exhaust systems and what-have-you. He is, still another member of the 'you don't have a performance model so you must be queer' school of thought. His opinion can easily be ignored and you can spend your money somewhere else.

 

Let's not kid ourselves in thinking that the dealer-inventory/MSRP mark-up situation is only a MINI-related issue. It varies by market and demand for a particular car (although MINI USA does control the supply-side chain of the MINI-economy, which has an effect).
Case in point. My dad was looking for a Nissan Murano. He lives in Tucson and the dealer told him that because it was a high-demand vehicle, they were selling them at MSRP plus $3,000 in dealer add-ons. So he drove to 90 miles to Scottsdale where he bought the same Murano for $3,000 under MSRP without add-ons.

 

MichaelD - I would agree wholeheartedly with you, and I have had prospective MINI owners ask me if what I thought of driving the Cooper, since the "enthusiasts" pooh-pooh it (his quote, not mine) I told him flat out I was more than thrilled with it and that I could not even compare it to my 115 HP GTI. Do I see myself going to an MCS in 5 years with a JCW kit or whatever hot-rod MINI is offering at the moment? It's highly possible. I don't see the styling of the car as being pegged into a time period like a 1978 Buick Riviera. I think what surprises me is the wide range of people I've met driving this car - old, young, male, female - doesn't matter. I go to an event an everyone is talking about mods, tires, wheels - whatever, and it's kindling an interest in what makes a car tick in people who would never think about that type of thing. It's great... :smile:

 

>>
>>>> cars only end up on the lot for sale if someone backs out of their order after the car has been produced.
>>
>>So places with 30 cars on their lot, must mean there's a lot of people who lost out on the $1000 non-refundable deposit?! So the dealer's already made $1000 on the car that sits on the lot. Then many get to get even more by adding markup.
Non-refundable?! At my dealership the deposit was fully refundable if you changed your mind!

 

There are over 30 Coopers available on the lot right now at Ralph Schomp MINI in Denver. That's about 2 months allocation.

Personally I think MINI missed the mark by not making the Cooper S 180-200 hp FROM THE FACTORY. 163 hp in a car these days is nothing. The 1.8T is 180 to 225 HP. The WRX is 225 to 300 hp (STi). Then we have the EVO at 276 HP and cars like the 350Z at 287 HP. Those cars aren't that much more than a Cooper S and some of those are cheaper than a pimped out JCW (the 350z enthusiast for instance).

If MINI had provided more power from the factory, you wouldn't have nearly as many enthusiasts putting 15% reduction pulleys on their MINIs and accepting a voided supercharger warranty.