Hi guys. I've been looking at the used car market for Mini Cooper S's for awhile now. It appears the 2002-2003 are quite affordable (with less then 50K miles on them to boot).

I checked out an '04 MCS at a used car dealership who said the car has a hold on it. He took my information and said he will call me if he gets another one in. He then mentioned to "steer clear" of the 2002-2003s. Why did he make that suggestion? Why should I take/not take his advice?

Thanks guys! *May* be joining you soon.

 

02-03 had new car growing pains. The 04's + are better. If you are going to autocross the car 05-06 with LSD is a must.

 

UGH!!! I have an '02 without problems. Completely love it. OK, one issue. The airbag light is on. But...it has had an extended warranty placed on it, and thats for all '02-'04s. Covered for 150,000 miles, they replace the wiring harness under the drivers seat. Other than that it has been a good car. Out of warranty, but a good one!

 

I have an 03 MCS and doing OK. Each car is different with more problems with the earlier years. Some cars are good others not so good. 04 and 05 are more trouble free but there are some that are not.

04 MCS are pretty common. 05 is a bit better if you can find one. 40,000 miles is no problem. Check out the clutch and air conditioning. Check the windows and the windshield.

 

My 03 MCS has had no major issues. Just passed 45k and going strong.
Many (but not all) of the early 02s had issues related to the brand new platform. It takes some time to find and fix all the minor bugs that can creep in. By early 03, the bugs were mostly fixed.
If I was looking at a used MINI now, I'd likely be looking for an 05 or 06 cause I'd REALLY like to have a factory LSD.

 

My 02 is 100% problem free. I have never had any problem what so ever.

 

Despite the fact that I have a prediliction for attracting people in very high-end performance cars that want to speed aggresively against me, I have had no (zero, nutink, bupkis) unusual problems with my MCS (6-speed, Chili Red with a Black hat, and 26,000 moles).

 

There are plenty of people who own trouble-free '02 & '03 MINIS but odds are higher that you could get a MINI with problems in those years because the car was so new. They had greatly increased reliability starting in '05

 

A few things to check for on an '02/'03:

1) The '03s seem to be prone to steering rack/column problems, but not like your steering would suddenly fail. With the car running, but stationary, turn the steering wheel from lock to lock and listen for a low creaking noise/squeak as you approach each end of travel. The power steering motor makes an almost constant whining noise, so don't confuse that with a squeak. If you hear the squeak, there *may* be a problem that needs attention. The upper strut mount bearings will also creak at steering lock if they are worn, so a squeek *could* be that. Also, if you can get under the front of the car, see if there's fluid leaking from the steering rack. I have heard of several people who have had either the upper bearings in the column replaced or the steering rack replaced. I've had the rack in my car replaced 3 times. If the car is still under warranty - or has an extended warranty - then the repairs should be covered. Again, I've never had my steering fail, just noticed noises or leakage, and when I took it in and had the dealer check, they said, "Your steering rack is going bad, so we're replacing it." No hassles. If you're out of warranty, the rack replacement is a $1,400 job.

2) The early cars seem to be prone to the power window motors going bad and/or whining. Again, it's a warranty fix.

3) This one would probably not be something you could pick up before buying the car, but the fuel gauge sending unit on the early cars sometimes goes bad, and if so the fuel gauge will sometimes not "come to life" when you start the car. Then, you drive for a bit, turn the car off, and when you start it up again it's back to normal. My '03 had this happen about a year-year and a half after new, and after getting the sending unit replaced I've had no problems. My mom's '02 Cooper is having the same issue, and I've heard from the dealer that it's a common issue. It will be fixed under warranty, but know that if you're out of warranty it'll be a somewhat expensive fix, as the sending unit is in the tank, and labor will add up to a few hundred dollars.


I've had all of the above issues with my '03 MCS, but they were all fixed under warranty, and may be again. (I've got an extended warranty) My passenger's side window didn't want to go down the other day, but then it's been working fine ever since.

As others have said, several fixes and improvements were made with the '04s and '05s, but don't let that scare you away from a good deal on a (less expensive) '02/'03. I'd suggest trying to buy one from a private party, as opposed to a dealer, and see if they have service records. There are a lot of early cars running around that have not had any problems, or if they have, the problems have likely been fixed by now.

 

Yeah I wish the '05s were a)easier to find b)more affordable.

 

There were all kinds of 05s for sale when I was looking a few months ago. I wanted an 05 or 06 so I would still have some warranty left. My only difficulty finding mine was I did not want to purchase from a dealer because I didn't want to fork over $2,000 in tax/fees.

 

"growing pains"!!! I like (and AGREE) with that!!!!!
You might find a few people that haven't had problems with their 02's, but that's definately the exception.

 

MINI redesigned many parts as time went on. Some things in the 02-03 cars to look out for:

seat airbag wiring harnesses - they've been redesigned at least twice. I've had both seat wiring harness changed 2 or 3 times.

If it's an MCS, the coolant tank overflow bottle was redesigned.

The 5-speed on the Cooper was switched from a Midlands gearbox to a Getrag gearbox.

The dash went from 5 pieces to 3 pieces (less noise in the 3 piece).

The dampers were revalved to make the ride smoother.

The seat recline mecahnism was redesigned.

The 12-volt outlet in the back of the car came and went from time to time.

The door hinges (actually door brake) went from bare metal that rusts to a rubber coated metal that doesn't.

etc etc etc

Unless you find a great deal on an 02-03, keep walking....

 

My '02 was cared for pretty well by the original owner and now I've had it for a couple of months and have had no problems except for the clutch and flywheel needing replacement . That was covered under warranty, though, and is a common problem on any year 1st gen MCS . Give it up for the '02s!!

 

Early 03 MCS vehicles rock. There are the design issues that have been noted (radiator header tank, seat reclining mech., etc.) but the best of the first generation is the 03 IMO. Still relatively low production, more attention to build quality paid by the factory, especially in the first 02 - 03 (maybe until 2/03 production month) make these well built little beasties. Get one, mod the 'ell out of it, and enjoy.

 

I love my first week of September 2002 build car too. But, honestly... it's too much of a crap-shoot to buy a used 2002 / 2003 car. If it had all the work done under warranty, it'll be a great. If not, prepare for all sorts of things to (possibly) go wrong.

On my car, a few things have gone wrong and I have not been able to get them fixed... even though there are TSBs about them. Since I'm out of warranty, the TSBs don't apply. For instance, the door handle redesign (which I forgot in my previous list). There's a TSB that says if the owner complains about frozen door handles in the winter to replace the door handles with a newer design. But, if you're out of warranty, you don't get the work done for free. And the labor to replace the door handles is very expensive.

If it's your car, and it has been taken care of, and you've bonded with it, that's one thing. If it's someone else's car, and you don't know if all the things that should have been fixed have been fixed, it's not worth the risk.

 

Regardless of what year used MINI you're considering you should request a history of all service and warranty work performed.

One fault not previously mentioned regarding 2002 and early 2003 models is that on those built prior to January 2003, the power steering fan shared the same electrical circuit as the radiator fan. Road debris jamming the [unprotected] power steering fan causes the common fuse to blow, resulting in the radiator fan not operating and the engine overheating. If the previous owner did not have the power steering fan put on a separate electrical circuit (Service Bulletin M320104) you should make sure the power steering fan is protected.

Another thing you want to check for is rust on the door seal flange. The rust protection coverage is 6 years on early models so you can still have this addressed under warranty (Service Bulletin M410206).

 

The used car salesman probably made that comment because he wasn't positive that the '04 he had was actually sold. If not, he wanted you to be his next possiblity to sell the '04 to, so....he made a comment to make you less likely to buy the 02-03 you said you were looking for, and, he hoped, more likely to buy his '04 if it turned out he didn't sell it to the person who had it, "on hold".

 

Wow, thanks for the great advice, guys.

 

Let us know what happens, and just remember we like lots of pictures whenyou get one!

 

Will do. To be honest I have it narrowed down to an E36 M3 (which I've always wanted since its debut here in 1995) and a MCS. The very significant other thinks getting the nearly 10 year old, 101K mile M3 is a poor financial and reliable decision. So that, coupled with the fact she's gonzo for MINI's is helping me bit a bit more persuaded into buying a MCS. Catching The Italian Job on F/X Thursday evening also helps.

Here is the Mini I was thinking of looking at today.

 

I just picked up my 03 MCS, had 70k on it, now is around 75k. No problems so far, love the car, I beat on maybe once a week, but other wise its just a nice DD. I have noticed my windows are really loud, but I thought that maybe that was just the quirky mini way. And I have a loud wheel bearing, but oh well, I could care less not effecting how it drives. I have all the service records and the owner had very few problems, just led bulbs going out, and a sensor or something, then a bad caliper.

As for the choise on the e36, I have one as well as my mini, and I love it, but it is getting to be a old car. Has 154k, and almost no problems with that at all, but I do all the repairs and work on it myself.

 

Another random question. Is there any way to tell if a car is a genuine John Cooper Works Edition from a visual, other then the badge on the back and the seller claiming it's one?

 

Here is a shot of the boot on the claimed "JCW" Cooper S. The tail lights are obviously aftermark (and bin worthy), but that rear bumber looks strange to me. And note the JCW badge. I assume there is no way to tell via the VIN is there? Thoughts?

Thanks.

 

Well, the rear bumper looks like a stock "S" bumper, although I can't recall ever seeing one with those oval red things (can't tell if they're lights or reflectors).

As for the VIN, it won't tell you directly if the car is a JCW car. You might be able to call 1-866-ASK-MINI and give them the VIN to find out more about the car, but in the years when the JCW package was only available as a dealer-installed option, I don't know if the ASK-MINI databases were updated with the fact that the car had the JCW kit installed by the dealer. In later years, when the JCW kit was available from the factory, ASK-MINI should certainly be able to tell that from the VIN.