Hey everyone, its been a while since i have posted here on NAM but here goes. I was driving home and suddenly hear a rattle from inside the block. Since i am out of warranty (at 61K miles) I took it to the local bmw/mini mechanic (DAI motorsports, Laguna Niguel CA). After 2 days, Jack (owner, mechanic) said that i have a rod bearing that is pretty much gone.

Background info on my car:
-05 MCS
-61K miles
-Alta CAI
-Alta 15% pulley
-myself: from south orange county, CA.. w/ no mechanical background at all

Jack checked the oil level and noticed that i only had 1 quart, thus damaging the motor. I have also had the tapping sound (sounds like putting a playing card in the spokes of a bike wheel) above 3000 rpm under mild or heavy acceleration (ive read the seperate thread). I dont think he has actually gotten in there and taken a look at what is officially wrong. Just from listening, and a short test drive had he come up with the conclusion of needing a whole new engine.

What i wanna ask is:
-Does his analysis sound correct? Also;

-He wants to charge $7000 for the new engine and install ($5000 for the engine and $95/hr for labor). Does that also sound correct? I dont want to get cheated on the price if i go through with the decision.

-Is there any alternative for me to do? Id like to have Steve's Auto Clinic take a look and provide a solution, would that be easy/costly to do (tow my car over there).

-He said it would be a brand new 07 engine, would everything be fine during/after the engine swap since i have an 05 MCS?


Thanks So Much in advace, I will be monitoring this thread closley. Please provide me with any advice, concerns, wisdom. Motor On!! - Mike

 

Sounds like a really bad day. That said 61,000 miles in two years? That is a lot of driving. Clearly running 4 quarts low can cause all sorts of damage. But $7000 sound like a lot. And I can't see that an '07 motor will work in your '05. I would look at two alternatives. A motor from a wreck. There should be some good ones around. And actually looking to see how much damage there was and if it could be repaired.

I guess the bottom line suggestion for me is to get it to a shop that does a lot of MINIs and has engine experience.

Just my 2 cents.

Rich

 

As we all know the 07 is a completely different motor from the 06 etc. are you sure your mechanic knows what he is talking about ? To be able to quote a price on something that has never been done before is quite a risk. I would hate to see you paying more for his mistake. I would get a second opinion. Johnnie's auto clinic in San Pedro would be one I would talk to.


Randy
M7 Tuning

 

With 1 quart left in the engine, you are running the risk of scored crankshaft bearings, camshaft bearings, and, and, and. Basically anything in the engine that requires lubrication. Anyway you look at it, it is bad news as Rich.Wolfson posted.

Sounds like a long block from the dealer with labor to install.

Nothing wrong with taking the car to another source, maybe they have another way to reduce the cost for you.

I doubt it will be an 07 engine for the reasons Rich.Wolfson mentions (principally incompatibility with your car's DME).

 

Thanks for a speedy response. Yeah, definately a lot of driving, and yes also sounded like a little high priced. I would like to take the mini elsewhere, but how to do it? Just find a towing service to drop it off? The most i know is that i would need a flatbed truck to tow it around.

Still looking for more opinions aswell.. Thanks again

 

Hey, thanks Randy for the recommendation, thanks caminifan too! I have also been pointed towards Irvine (Revolution Mini Works). All are definately great replies. Keep em commin!.. please

 

Find yourself a good 'race engine' rebuilder. Then ask if they do any rebuilding on 'non race' engines. If they don't, ask them for a recommendation. I'm talking about someone pulling our engine, totally rebuilding it, crank, boring, new pistons, whatever valve and head work is necessary or that you want, boring, new clutch, water pump, SC inspection and new seals if necessary.

You should be able to get all this done for about half of what you were quoted.

I'm concerned about your being so low on oil. I'm not scolding or giving you a hard time here, but what is your oil change history and intervals. Has it been using oil earlier in your history? I'm just gathering info.

YD

 

Don't you think they did mean an 07 engine - they are still putting these in the verts, no?

 

Get out the yellow pages and start calling garages with the information you have at hand.

I can just about guarentee you're going to at least need an engine rebuild.

 

Hey Yo'sDad, concerning my oil. I might get scolded now.... but I have honestly only had the only changed at the time the service indicator states. Only once, after my first oil change have i put in a quart of oil because i saw it was low. I guess i was not checking frequently enough

 

how many miles have u driven since the last oil service? don't tell me '15k'..

 

im scared to say..... 11K

 

hmm.
shoudlnt have given u only 1qt of oil then.. weird..
good luck and keep us updated

 

I'd say the 07 engine is an 07 engine, just like the 06 engine. There're still using them in the cabrio I believe.

 

I think MINI is still producing the s/c engine for the R53 verts still in production (2007 model year). At least I hope that's what your mechanic meant...

edit: resmini beat me to it, lol (and lava earlier on). where's the beating a dead horse animation when you need it?

 

The most cost effective thing to do in these situations is to install a used engine from a wreck. This will be much cheaper than installing a new engine or having your engine rebuilt. Given the damage that might be done to your engine, there is no way I'd rebuild it - your engine is junk. So it's either a new engine or a used engine - I'd vote for used unless you really think you're going to keep the car a long time.

There may be rebuild shops for the R53 that are now selling factory-rebuilt engines from used cores. These are typically a better deal than a new engine - all the common wear items are replaced and they will take your old engine as a core.

As others have said, it is impossible to install the R56 engine in an R53 chassis - I expect this is just an area of miscommunication when your mechanic says he's getting a 2007 engine.

- Mark

 

As others have said, there are new "2007" engines available for the R53 - they're still being produced for the convertibles.

As for taking the engine out of a wrecked car, that's almost the perfect example of "buying a pig in a poke" - you're likely not going to be able to hear the engine run, do a compression/leakdown test, or do any of the other things that would make me confident enough to buy/install a used engine. How cost-effective is it going to be to buy & install a used engine, only to find out that it has problems as well?

And as far as his current engine being "junk", if every engine that spun a rod bearing were "junk", the engine-rebuilding companies would be out of business. Depending on how much of the failed bearing is left, he may just need a new set of rod bearings, or he may need one new piston rod and some machining on his crankshaft. Even at the worst, new rod & main bearings along with new pistons and rings and the required machine work to the crank and block are still relatively short money compared to a new or used engine.

Rather than buying a completely different engine (new OR used), I think the most cost-effective solution that's likely to produce good results would just be to have his current engine rebuilt.

 

More thanks to everyone....
So what if the rod bearing is busted and thats it? Cause the car still drives, i guess its just on the edge of the rod busting or whatever. I dont know much about engines so; would i still need an engine rebuild? or just that piece replaced?.. how much should an engine rebuild cost? what is included with a rebuild?

 

The rod bearing is a sacrifical part that goes between the piston rod and the crankshaft. If all of the damage is limited to the bearing itself, then only the bearing needs replaced. If the bearing has worn enough that there's damage to the crankshaft or piston rod, then there will be some machine work involved to repair the damage.

As far as what's involved in a rebuild, they'll remove the engine, disassemble it, and take measurements of all of the parts that are subject to wear. Based on what they find, they'll either just replace the various bearings (because they're cheap and the engine's already apart), or they may have to machine the piston bores and replace the pistons with oversized versions. They'll probably replace the piston rings on principle as well, since they're cheap too, even if you don't need new pistons.

The total price will depend on what work needs to be done, but the engine is going to have to come out whether you rebuild it or replace it, so that's already a sunk cost. The last engine rebuild I had done was about $1500, and that was for new crankshaft bearings, a new camshaft, camshaft bearings, and all the labour, gaskets, etcetera.

 

If the car has truly been run for a period of time with 1-qt of oil, sorry, that single rod bearing that has failed is probably only the tip of the iceberg. The chances of that engine providing reliable service for any prolonged length of time are virtually nil unless the entire engine is gone through and rebuilt. And this simply isn't cost effective to be done in the field. You're much better off buying a rebuilt engine and using the old one as a core.

Most used engines are sold with short-term warranties. Many can be started and run in the doner car to assess condition, compression, etc. A typical used engine might sell for $1000.

Honestly, some of the people giving advice on this thread have obviously never been in a situation like this. It is by far the most common practice in this situation to buy and install a used engine from another car. It is done all the time.

- Mark

 

Buying a rebuilt engine is fine, although I still don't think it will be cheaper than rebuilding the current engine. My problem is with just buying a used engine and hoping for the best. For something like a used alternator that's relatively inexpensive and easy to replace if it doesn't work out, I'm in favour of used parts. But not for engines. Buying a used (non-rebuilt) engine from a wrecker is something you do when you're trying to get a few more years out of an old beater and the cost of a new or rebuilt engine would exceed the value of the car. IMHO, it's not appropriate for a two-year old car, unless your current engine block is cracked, punched, or otherwise prohibitively-expensive to repair. Even then, I'd still go for a rebuilt engine rather than a donor engine from a car you know nothing about.

If you can find a reliable used MINI engine for $1000, more power to you - I've never seen one anywhere *near* that cheap, unless you're just talking about buying a used short block and re-using the current cylinder head, supercharger, valvetrain, electronics, accessories, etcetera.

While a used engine may come with a warranty, it's not likely to cover the labour costs involved in pulling the engine out if it fails within the warranty period, unless you buy the used engine *and* have them install it.

I've had an engine fail due to *total* oil starvation (although it was an obstruction in an oil cooler line and not a lack of oil), and unless you throw a rod and put a hole in the block, the costs to rebuild the engine simply don't vary that wildly from one case to the next. Plan on replacing all of the bearings on general principle. Re-sizing the rod ends and main journals or turning the crankshaft are only needed if a bearing has failed completely and spun. The biggest unknown is whether there has been enough wear to the cylinder bores to warrant overboring them. If that happens, you have to buy new oversized pistons and piston rings, but the coated cylinder walls in modern engines are amazingly tough.

 

I'm not scolding you, but let this be a reminder to everyone to check their oil at every gas fill-up.

Good luck

 

why didn't the check oil light come on?

and i have to say, the r53 oil dipstick is not the most pleasant one to use

 

I'm not convinced that the low oil level is the cause of the problem, rather than another symptom.

For an engine to "burn" 3 quarts of oil between 50,000 and 61,000 miles, there would need to be something pretty seriously wrong already. Perhaps a head gasket leak allowed oil into the combustion chamber, or into the cooling system?

Checking your oil at every fuel-up is a good idea, but it's also possible that this was more of a sudden-onset failure that could have happened anyway.

 

Because the oil light sensor measures oil pressure, not level, and the engine can be VERY low on oil before the oil pump starts cavitating and pumping air instead of oil.