I was just looking at the specs of the RS4 today and I was blown away when I saw the valve count.

A 48-valve V8...... that's 6 valves per cylinder, simply remarkable.

This got me thinking to all the other things that have come up lately like the new from scratch AMG engine.

A V8 that revs to 7200 RPM.

And we mustn't forget the BMW M5.

A V10 that revs to 7750RPM.

Or the Bugatti Veyron.

And the 10 intercoolers required to keep the car cool.

This simply has to be the golden age of technology for cars.

Now, can somebody start working on styling?

 

BTW... Few yrs ago Mercedes annonced 7 spd auto tranny... And we just heard 8 spd auto tranny on the new Lexus LS

 

And the dual clutch system used in some new BMW's (and I believe Audi's). It's only a couple years old, I believe.

 

Really? BMW have dual cluch system in production cars.. I though the only one in the market is the Audi's DSG.

 

I thought I read somewhere that BMW was using the system too. Maybe I'm wrong...

 

I'm suprised that nobody is as astounded by a 48 valve V-8...I just keep thinking 6 valves per cylinder and thinking how much work that must've gone into that. Most 48 valve engines are in V-12s, meaning 4 valves per cylinder. Maybe there's an optimal number of valves per cylinder, but I always thought more was better. Maybe it's why all the magazines have been raving about the greatness of the new Audi V8 in the RS4.

I've also only heard of Audi using the dual clutch system. Maybe I'm wrong though... [EDIT] I just googled BMW dual clutch system and apparently rumors are that they'll be coming up with a new dual clutch system soon on the E90s. However, Audi is still the innovator on that one.

Regarding the 7 speed transmission, the whole reason AMG created the new 6.2L engine was so they could use the new transmission. The old Supercharged 5.5L engines had too much torque for the new 7 speeds so they had to use the old 5-speeds. The new 6.2L works with the new 7 speeds. I'm just waiting for them to bolt on turbos... which I heard AMG is looking toward in the future instead of superchargers.

Lexus, blah... I'll start looking at Lexus cars when their cars become interesting like the new IS. I used to be the largest proponent of Acura TLs until I took a ride in the new IS. I became converted and I wasn't even driving.

 

The optimal is 4 valves per cylinder.. there is no significant proof that more than 4 valves will be more efficient.

The Audi dual clutch system DSG was invent in the early 80's when they doing rally.. they've put the dual clutch in that rally quattro coupe.

 

But assuming that 4 valves is greater than 2 or 3 valves, it can sort of be assumed that 6 valves has to be greater than 4 valves, right?

[EDIT] Well, I just looked up a couple of Ferraris, mainly the F355, F360, and F430 and they're actually 5 , 5 , and 4 valves per cylinder respectively. Assuming that Ferrari isn't going backward, maybe the number of valves isn't directly proportional to efficiency.

On a similar note, I'm expecting to see some awesome things from Audi in the next few years. It just kills me thinking about all their RS cars having Cosworth engines.

 

I'd like to argue that point.

 

Point taken, but really it was just a modernization of the old Mini. In the whole scheme of things, older cars just look better in my opinion. Now, that may be just because there's a lot bigger pool to select from when you're saying pre-2006 vs. 2006 cars, but I don't know. I look at cars and don't really see classics ever being made

It might just be this whole generation. Turn on the radio and see if you think that any of that music will still be played a decade or even two decade from now. Nothing comes close to being as influencial as The Cure, Depeche Mode, and whatnot. The same goes with movies and movie stars. No actress in this decade or last decade will ever be as defining as the old movie stars like Audrey Hepburn, Cary Grant, etc.

Back to cars. To me, something has been lost. Cars aren't great or awesome, they're just good now. Very few cars in this decade or last decade will stand the test of time. For example, the E30 M3 is iconic and there will always be people who will search those out. When we started progressing and went from the E30 to E36, the E36 was just a car. While the E36 is a great car, most people would rather have an E46. As soon as the E60 M3 comes out, people will go to the E60 M3. The only reason one gets the E36 M3 is because one can't afford the E46. The same goes for F355s as being iconic. The F360 became the next generation, an obvious improvement in every sense, but only a car, a beautiful beautiful car, but still only a car. The reason you can tell is because most people would rather have an F430 rather than an F360. RX-7 vs. RX-8.

I suppose what I'm saying is that it's true that cars have progressed greatly in this period of time and they're always getting better, but I see very few icons being created. It sort of makes me sad. When I look out on the road, I just see various modes of transportation.

 

I get your point, there are many lame or cookie cutter designs out there and the auto industry has been slowly recovering from the underpowered econo boxes of the 80s and also cars don't get redesigned every year like they did in the 50s. The last three gens of the vette would prove you point of modernization. Also Porche hasn't really changed design in recent years. I really think that the majority of cars ESPEACALLY in the US have become more matters of function than works of art. The corvettes porpuse is speed and consequently Chevy went to a low drag design, Honda insight looks hideous in my opinion but was made to get 70 MPG which it does and too many cars have been made to be just BIG which they too accomplish. The MINI is a work of art, which part of the reason that I love it. The Zonda is a work of art and also very aerodynamic (opinion then fact), it doesn't fit my taste but it has style. So I guess in principle I agree with you, but had to defend my MINI, after all this is a forum about them.

 

I suppose the big thing is the commercialization of our culture. I view things like music, movies, and cars as art while I guess to the producers, they're just made for money.

Speaking of things getting bigger, I wish the MINI was smaller (i.e. - length and height). It's really not as small as people make it out to be. The back seats are so spacious and I have so much head room, a cavern compared to the Elise. Commercialization attacks again, targeting a wider market. I guess the great thing about it is how large the community is.

Some of the best things, iconic items weren't commercialization. Porsche lost money on the 955, but they did it to break into the 200MPH club. The Bugatti Veyron loses millions on each car. These cars are great and will always be great. To a certain extent, it is a bit of commercialization since those cars act as flagships for the brand.

 

KraziVan

As you know, the primary function of the valves is to let the exhaust gases out and the air/fuel mixture in and then help in forming an air-tight seal to the cylinder. Since the volume of the cylinder is fixed, all the valves need to handle is a fixed volume of exhaust gases flowing outward and then air/fuel inwards. Both these volumes are more or less fixed.

Increasing the number of valves only means that one can have smaller valve openings, since the air/fuel mixture and/or exhaust gases in the cylinder can be increased only to a certain extent without blowing up the engine. By having multiple openings, one can have better turbulence and spread of the air/fuel mixture, possibly resulting in more smooth burning and power delivery. But too many inlet valves can also lead to dilution of charge, resulting in poor combustion, lesser power and more pollutants.

More exhaust valves can help in better scavenging of exhaust, but at the same time can also result in a drop in cyclinder pressure during the exhaust stroke, if not properly designed.

While 6 valves per cylinder sounds great, I am not sure that it is significantly better than 4/5 valves per cylinder. Technoligically, it might be awesome, considering the cams/drives needed to operate the valves in synchronization, but functionally.........

 

I take your word on a straight 6 valve vs. 4/5 valve comparison. I guess I've always assumed more valves were better. In a strict geometric comparison, can't more circles in a larger circle take up more area than fewer circles in the same circle, assuming that the smaller circles vary in size uniformly and the larger circle stays the same size. If that's true, wouldn't a greater number of valves be able to intake and expel more gases at a speedier rate.
On a similar note, regarding Cosworth, they created a 20,000 RPM V8 for F1.

http://www.jalopnik.com/cars/news/co...-v8-122029.php

A video:
http://www.autocar.co.uk/popups/video.asp?ar=216402

 

Agreed, except I'd go for the Exige, cause I think its form following function that makes it look beautiful, almost like the carrera GT, but that one hasn't quite won me over yet. I'd really like to see BMW enter that crowd with a new M1, another ground breaker.

 

I used to want an Exige, but realized that it really can't be used except on the track and I would drive it on the street. C'mon, at the very least the Elise has a rear window. I do however like the lines of the Exige a bit better, but nothing the hardtop option of the Elise can't help and a spoiler...

 

It's got those big side Mirrors which could mean smaller blind spots than a MCc or a MCSc, now if only I could test that theory...

 

You think the Exige will be driveable on the street without a rear window?

 

I figure if a van and tractor trailer can handle rush out w/out it then I could in a sports car, its just a matter of well placed side mirrors and alert driving

 

I was just thinking about this. Why do you need a rear view mirror in a sports car? The only reason I use it normally is to make sure nothing is coming up on me fast. In an exige, you could probably just out-accelerate everything. What else do you need a rear view mirror for? Cops?

 

Cops and sleeping drunks approaching at full speed when you're at a red light, besides you can lay back and temp the guy is the boxster before punching it, hypathetically and under the speedlimit of course.

 

"It might just be this whole generation. Turn on the radio and see if you think that any of that music will still be played a decade or even two decade from now. Nothing comes close to being as influencial as The Cure, Depeche Mode, and whatnot. The same goes with movies and movie stars. No actress in this decade or last decade will ever be as defining as the old movie stars like Audrey Hepburn, Cary Grant, etc."

I think you paint a bit of a bleak picture of our times... there are plenty of innovative bands under tthe mainstream and even in the mainstream, white stripes off the top of my head. While many people are happy with top 40 or MTV there are some of us who seek out innovative and different music and movies. If you dig just a little under the skin of our society you will see that there is a lot out there that most people don't know or want to know about that is truly refreshing and does not conform to the staus quo. Also, sorry, but to say the Cure and Depeche mode were influential to music is lost on me...If you want to talk about innovators give me some Beatles, Hendrix, Led Zeppelin, Talking Heads, the real innovators of modern rock/Pop as we know it. Granted when I turn on the radio these days, I cringe when I hear the new song by Asslee Simpson, or whatever the new flavor is. But music has progressed. Mozart and Bach used to be avant garde 200 years ago and was all the fashion. Black eyed peas and the sorts are pushing the envelope now.

As far as cars, you're right. I haven't seen a new car that has piqued my interest since the MCS, although the new GTI looks OK. Maybe we are just out of options until the first hover car comes out?

 

1) The Cure and Depeche Mode have to be some of the most influential bands in history. I'm sorry, but look at any interviews with any alternative / rock band and they will say one or the other had a huge effect on their music.
2) I didn't mean to say that there is no good music out there. I'm sure there's some. And I totally agree with you on the White Stripes. They are a great band. There's also stuff by Blur, Spoon, Cake, Dashboard, just to name a few. That's not the point though. Obviously, there's always good music. This era won't be defined by the good music though, it will be defined with pop crap written by behind the scenes songwriters lipsunk by idols.

The new GTI may look okay, but it's not era-defining. That's the point. Most care are acceptable, but it seems like it's just a blip in history if at all.

 

You're right that this era will not be defined by our music , cars , movies or anything more that our willingness to be happy with what we are fed. I wasn't trying to offen depeche mode or that other band. (the cure) I was just trying to make 2 points. The bands mentioned while they may have influenced later generations were initialy influenced by other people who broke true ground in changing the face of music. Don't want to rain on DM or TOB's parade but they took what was there and brought it to a new level, which gets at the root of your earlier rant. Innovation. Starting something without using a precedent, or previous influence, etc.
Point # 2 was that there is still a spirit of trying to push the envelope. Sadly, once talented people,in film and all p/arts have been discovered they tend to be pushed into mainstream sell out roles that take no heed of their talents and abilitiies and they just crunch out albums/mobvies that their studios dictate to them..That's why I go see small bands at local clubs, etc. I live 2 blocks from the Fillmore, so I can catch a show sometimes by pue chance on my way home.
On cars I think we're sympatico

 

Auto designers can start by not copying the new BMW 7-series' styling cues. Bangle should be fired for that atrocity imo...

But go figure... everybody from Mercedes to Toyota is copying the look.

yyeeeeshh.