R32 vs S Works (pros & cons)
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6th Gear
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From: Birmingham, AL
R32 vs S Works (pros & cons)
Hey guys, as many of you know, my MINI was lost back in October. Now I see no reason to switch away from Mini, as there was NOTHING I did not like about the car. However, my father, (who owns the cars), but who gets sale ideas from me, has presented me with the idea of an R32-new on the lot for $27,000. The S Works we would have would be approx. $32,000 (full blown JCW). I would just like to know the pros and cons of each vehicle, but mainly why the MINI is better.
7th Gear Gal
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From: Weeblegabber West (aka WLA)
What a nice dad! A few reasons to stay with MINI: I'm guessing that resale value of the MINI will be better; MINI is lighter, therefore probably better-handling; IT'S A MINI! 
Clover
Clover
6th Gear
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From: Charm City, MD
Even though An R32 is AWD and has a good amount of power, I would still go witht he MINI because they are so much more fun to drive 
. And R32 are starting to become like butthole's........everybody has one 
. So go with the MINI .
. And R32 are starting to become like butthole's........everybody has one . So go with the MINI .
6th Gear
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From: Napa, CA
I have been a HUGE VW fan since I was old enough to drive. My '87 GTI had over 350,000 miles on when I sold it to my friend in 1999. He has put another 70,000 trouble-free miles on it since! When the R32s came out I about died. What a nice car - V6, four-wheel drive! But I have owned classic Minis for about 20 years, I saw the prototype MINI in '97 and have been lying in wait ever since. So it was a no brainer for me. I absolutely love my S and don't regret getting it instead of the R32.
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Cincinnati, Ohio
Talk about a dilemma. I had a GTI VR-6 which I sold when I bought my MCS, so I appreciate VW's take on hot hatches.
Winners in categories (IMO) are:
performance: VW
maneuverability: MCS (hands down)
handling at the limit in inclement weather: VW (the R32 is awd)
comfort: VW
styling: MCS
quality: toss up. there have been quality issues with both models.
resale value: VW (limited 5,000 production run for USA)
fun factor: MCS
stealth ability: VW (though not much, especially with the exhausts).
tunability: VW (can you imagine supercharging your R32? Muahahahah)
'Look at me factor": MCS
The fact that I sold a VW when I bought my MCS reflects that I thought the MCS was a better car, at the time. Now however, given a choice between the R32 and the MCS, it'd be a much tougher decision.
Can't you talk the old man into getting one of each? that way you could keep the mileage down on both cars.
Winners in categories (IMO) are:
performance: VW
maneuverability: MCS (hands down)
handling at the limit in inclement weather: VW (the R32 is awd)
comfort: VW
styling: MCS
quality: toss up. there have been quality issues with both models.
resale value: VW (limited 5,000 production run for USA)
fun factor: MCS
stealth ability: VW (though not much, especially with the exhausts).
tunability: VW (can you imagine supercharging your R32? Muahahahah)
'Look at me factor": MCS
The fact that I sold a VW when I bought my MCS reflects that I thought the MCS was a better car, at the time. Now however, given a choice between the R32 and the MCS, it'd be a much tougher decision.
Can't you talk the old man into getting one of each? that way you could keep the mileage down on both cars.
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6th Gear
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From: Birmingham, AL
Although the car is my dads car, it is still mine to get around in. (yes I feelt extremely lucky to have an JCW mini as my first basic car.) But it was different that getting "donated" a car like some other teenagers do that I know of.
What about safety, fuel econ, reliabilty, experience? I have a feeling (in fact I know) that a Works 210 with JCW suspension and brakes would be no competition, for an R32, but that isnt going to be an argument for my father. ( if you know what I mean.)
What about safety, fuel econ, reliabilty, experience? I have a feeling (in fact I know) that a Works 210 with JCW suspension and brakes would be no competition, for an R32, but that isnt going to be an argument for my father. (
if you know what I mean.)
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6th Gear
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From: Birmingham, AL
My question on resale of the Golf 4 series R32 is the Golf 5 series will feature DSG and a rumored Turbo Vr6 with over 300hp. The only thing I think that would hold the resale would be that it is the last of the Golf 4. Which is straight line faster? Golf R32 of Works 210?
It would be good to get both, But my personal dream garage is a cooper s and an S2000.
It would be good to get both, But my personal dream garage is a cooper s and an S2000.
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5th Gear
Joined: Aug 2004
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From: Holden, MA
Originally Posted by MGCMAN
Talk about a dilemma. I had a GTI VR-6 which I sold when I bought my MCS, so I appreciate VW's take on hot hatches.
Winners in categories (IMO) are:
comfort: VW
Winners in categories (IMO) are:
comfort: VW
Originally Posted by MGCMAN
resale value: VW (limited 5,000 production run for USA)
Originally Posted by MGCMAN
stealth ability: VW (though not much, especially with the exhausts)
Originally Posted by MGCMAN
tunability: VW (can you imagine supercharging your R32? Muahahahah)
Just my .02 though
4th Gear
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Bahstun, MA
It so happened that I was on the CarKeys site today and checked out their R32 review for kicks. They don't seem to care for it much...read it here http://www.carkeys.co.uk/road_test/volkswagen/183.asp and compare it to the MINI reviews....
6th Gear
Joined: Oct 2003
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From: Neenah, WI
The R32 has better seats and the best stock steering wheel I've seen. AWD is a big plus, and it puts down power much better than the MINI. It is very fast. For my money, between the MINI and the R32, I'd buy whichever one is cheaper.
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6th Gear
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From: Birmingham, AL
The report doesnt seem really good, as I live in an area with lots of twisty curves and many elevation changes, one of the reasons I loved the mini so much. I generally got the impression from the article that it doesnt want to corner, I also read in autoweek that the R32 leans quite a lot, on the contrary to the Mini.
And to which one is cheaper-This was an R32 spankin new for $27,000. Our mini would be around $32,000. And I know that the new works would out handle the R32, but does anyone know if the works 210 would out accelerate?
And to which one is cheaper-This was an R32 spankin new for $27,000. Our mini would be around $32,000. And I know that the new works would out handle the R32, but does anyone know if the works 210 would out accelerate?
4th Gear
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Just to clarify one thing on the R32. The AWD is heavilly front drive biased only until there is significant slip to power the rears. This is NOT like an Audi Quattro or Subie AWD.
That said, the R32 is a danm nice ride. My buddy has one and it's a blast to drive, power is immediate and that exhaust ... WOW! Much more upscale interior, great seats, big 6-cyl under the hood. Came in 2nd on my shopping list.
Downside, it's heavy, I can only imagine what that car would be like if it were 200lbs lighter. Personally I don't like all the luxury features (auto climate, rain sensing wipers, dimmimg mirror) and it's the last year of the body. meaning next year it's old. Again a personal factor, not big on the blue dash lights any more.
When I was looking it was an MCS, R32 or STi. after driving them all, and looking at pros and cons, and what I needed (and didn't want .. sorry subie wing) it wasn't even close .. MCS was the winner.
Other factor for me was VW service around here is miserable, and I couldn't trust any of the local dealers. At least with MINI, I trust the dealer, and my indi BMW gurus now do MINI as well
That said, the R32 is a danm nice ride. My buddy has one and it's a blast to drive, power is immediate and that exhaust ... WOW! Much more upscale interior, great seats, big 6-cyl under the hood. Came in 2nd on my shopping list.
Downside, it's heavy, I can only imagine what that car would be like if it were 200lbs lighter. Personally I don't like all the luxury features (auto climate, rain sensing wipers, dimmimg mirror) and it's the last year of the body. meaning next year it's old. Again a personal factor, not big on the blue dash lights any more.
When I was looking it was an MCS, R32 or STi. after driving them all, and looking at pros and cons, and what I needed (and didn't want .. sorry subie wing) it wasn't even close .. MCS was the winner.
Other factor for me was VW service around here is miserable, and I couldn't trust any of the local dealers. At least with MINI, I trust the dealer, and my indi BMW gurus now do MINI as well
2nd Gear
Joined: May 2003
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From: Lost Angels
Ah, OK...Carkeys doesn't exactly endorse getting a MINI Cooper S wholeheartedly also. So whatever...
*snip*
However . . .
That's all well and good until you find an interesting road in the real world, complete with crests and dips. If one of those crests happens to occur in the middle of a corner, the MINI's already loose back end virtually loses contact with the surface entirely, and you're dangerously close to a spin.
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It caught me out. Just once, and fortunately the car straightened out before losing control completely. But it was an anxious moment, one of the worst I've had on the road in a very long time, and it made me think that maybe the Cooper S should be tamed slightly; send some of the grip to the rear, and live with the resulting imbalance on the grounds that safety on the public road is more important than ultimate lap times on a race circuit.
I also couldn't help thinking rather bitterly about all those press reports saying how the car understeers. At that moment I rather wished that it did.
I think it's reasonable to suggest that people buy MINIs because they are cute, not because they are quick (and certainly not because they can carry four people - legroom for rear seat passengers is almost non-existent). They are toys, which in itself is fine. There has always been a market for fun cars.
But people who want a car with this much performance are probably going to buy something else, and people who want a MINI are likely to be drivers who may not be prepared for what the Cooper S does when you reach the limit. I like the car, in small doses at least, but some sort of re-think does seem to be in order.
However . . .
That's all well and good until you find an interesting road in the real world, complete with crests and dips. If one of those crests happens to occur in the middle of a corner, the MINI's already loose back end virtually loses contact with the surface entirely, and you're dangerously close to a spin.
It caught me out. Just once, and fortunately the car straightened out before losing control completely. But it was an anxious moment, one of the worst I've had on the road in a very long time, and it made me think that maybe the Cooper S should be tamed slightly; send some of the grip to the rear, and live with the resulting imbalance on the grounds that safety on the public road is more important than ultimate lap times on a race circuit.
I also couldn't help thinking rather bitterly about all those press reports saying how the car understeers. At that moment I rather wished that it did.
I think it's reasonable to suggest that people buy MINIs because they are cute, not because they are quick (and certainly not because they can carry four people - legroom for rear seat passengers is almost non-existent). They are toys, which in itself is fine. There has always been a market for fun cars.
But people who want a car with this much performance are probably going to buy something else, and people who want a MINI are likely to be drivers who may not be prepared for what the Cooper S does when you reach the limit. I like the car, in small doses at least, but some sort of re-think does seem to be in order.
Originally Posted by Aqualung
It so happened that I was on the CarKeys site today and checked out their R32 review for kicks. They don't seem to care for it much...read it here http://www.carkeys.co.uk/road_test/volkswagen/183.asp and compare it to the MINI reviews....
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6th Gear
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From: Birmingham, AL
Well its more than obvious carkeys doesnt like the mini. Does the editor know how to drive? Countersteer? Has he ever heard of DSC? One of the same situations happened to me, i was quickly driving over a crest and right in front of me is a T intersection (which Im in the middle) and a stop sign, and beyond that is someones yard followed by their house. Just had to slam the brakes and turn left. DSC and ABS saved my rear-end, the DSC kept the car from oversteering. I dont think a re think is needed.
The R32 is a great car that I would love to own. However, it is not the same type of car as an MCS (JCW or not). It has a wonderful engine, an excellent interior and a very good drive system. But it is heavy and the US market suspension is too soft. (This is a problem with all new VWs sold in the US. I had an '00 Jetta VR6 prior to my MCS and currently also own an '03 New Beetle 1.8T.) Where the MCS is like a go-cart, the R32 is more along the lines of a touring car. Both are great fun in the right circumstances.
Your best bet is to test drive them both and figure out which one you like better. The seats in the R32 might be uncomfortable for bigger people. I like the whine of the supercharger, but some people might not. The exhaust note of the R32 is music to me, maybe not to you. The suspension on the R32 is too soft for my taste, but the suspension on the MCS can be too hard at times.
Anyway, I don't think you can go wrong with either choice. You just need to determine which fits your needs better.
Your best bet is to test drive them both and figure out which one you like better. The seats in the R32 might be uncomfortable for bigger people. I like the whine of the supercharger, but some people might not. The exhaust note of the R32 is music to me, maybe not to you. The suspension on the R32 is too soft for my taste, but the suspension on the MCS can be too hard at times.
Anyway, I don't think you can go wrong with either choice. You just need to determine which fits your needs better.
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