Navigation & Audio Call me crazy: Nutty stereo upgrade via dealer (w/pics!)
good thinking....I suggested running new wire direct to the LR, bypassing the harness (easy to do because everything is apart). That should help prove/disprove that wiring as the culprit
This is all fantastic stuff - thanks guys. I have printed out all relevant posts in the past 10 days, and I hope to meet with the service manager soon to discuss how to get this thing sorted out and wrapped up. I will be showing him the discussion to demonstrate that this needs some methodical wire testing!
6th Gear
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,433
Likes: 1
From: Gloucester, MA, USA
I don't want to distract too much from the main thread ...
My GPMINI has an aftermarket HU - so I drove my subs from the RCA sub out of that HU.
But the DPSM does has "full range" speakers in each of the four positions. The rears are not as clear as the fronts, but they do OK. Definitely not sub-only to the rear positions.
The DPSM basically appears to be just a digital four channel amp - although there must be some wierdness going on in order for it to implement the "3D" effect that you can select.
postrin makes a great suggestion though, about temporarily reverting to not using the DPSM.
The DPSM wiring makes it extremely easy to disconnect, and let the stock HU directly drive the speakers. I believe the DPSM speakers are 4 ohm - they won't be very loud but the HU should have no trouble driving them.
At least it would allow confirmation that the HU and "factory" wiring is problem free.
My GPMINI has an aftermarket HU - so I drove my subs from the RCA sub out of that HU.
But the DPSM does has "full range" speakers in each of the four positions. The rears are not as clear as the fronts, but they do OK. Definitely not sub-only to the rear positions.
The DPSM basically appears to be just a digital four channel amp - although there must be some wierdness going on in order for it to implement the "3D" effect that you can select.
postrin makes a great suggestion though, about temporarily reverting to not using the DPSM.
The DPSM wiring makes it extremely easy to disconnect, and let the stock HU directly drive the speakers. I believe the DPSM speakers are 4 ohm - they won't be very loud but the HU should have no trouble driving them.
At least it would allow confirmation that the HU and "factory" wiring is problem free.
I am pretty sure the tech has already tried connecting standard Boost speakers, directly to the head unit... although he may not have connected all of the speakers at the same time (just one speaker, rotated to each set of terminals, to ensure they are playing properly).
Part of the problem is also that the standard Boost setup may not display problems that the DPSM setup does, because the Boost setup is not as sensitive. By this, I mean that the DPSM amp is more likely to amplify (pun not intended) a small problem into a larger one.
That doesn't mean that the "Boost test" isn't valuable, just that it isn't a guarantee either. Am I thinking correctly?
Part of the problem is also that the standard Boost setup may not display problems that the DPSM setup does, because the Boost setup is not as sensitive. By this, I mean that the DPSM amp is more likely to amplify (pun not intended) a small problem into a larger one.
That doesn't mean that the "Boost test" isn't valuable, just that it isn't a guarantee either. Am I thinking correctly?
typically, a surround effect is generated by either some DSP ckt, or reversin L/R and putting them out of phase, effectively making them dipole speakers like in a home theater. None of that should have any bearing on the system working however and the fact remains there's no continuity between one wire on the LR terminal and anything in the DPSM plug or even direct ground.
typically, a surround effect is generated by either some DSP ckt, or reversin L/R and putting them out of phase, effectively making them dipole speakers like in a home theater. None of that should have any bearing on the system working however and the fact remains there's no continuity between one wire on the LR terminal and anything in the DPSM plug or even direct ground.
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,497
Likes: 0
From: Orange County, CA
I just got my Intravee II unit installed in my 05 MCS with factory nav a few days ago and it's ABSOLUTELY AMAZING!
I can't believe that folks can figure out how to interface with the K-Bus and the nav system like this. AND... It sounds great as well. I currently have two iPod dock connectors in my MINI. One is from the Intravee II kit and the other is hooked up via a standard iPod Composite AV dock kit (for use in outputting my iPod videos to the nav display). There's quite a difference in the sound quality when using the different docks with the Intravee connection being the better one.
If you've got a factory nav system in your 1st gen MINI and you're looking for an iPod adapter, then the Intravee II is the one you want to get for sure. It's a 100% plug-n-play installation too. Not a single wire needs to be cut, there's no power or ground connections to make, etc. It's all hooked up via the CD changer connectors located in the MINI's boot.
2nd Gear
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 132
Likes: 0
From: Brooklyn, NY
Edge, do you have to cut any wires or is the Intravee plug and play?
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,497
Likes: 0
From: Orange County, CA
What... Am I a ghost or something??? From just one post above yours:
Or maybe the answer just needs to come from Mr. OEM instead. 
It's a 100% plug-n-play installation too. Not a single wire needs to be cut, there's no power or ground connections to make, etc. It's all hooked up via the CD changer connectors located in the MINI's boot.
2nd Gear
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 132
Likes: 0
From: Brooklyn, NY
News break, of sorts...
Last night, and again this morning, I received PMs from fellow member 03ibmini, who has the DPSM in his MINI, and at one point experienced the exact same symptoms we are seeing with my DPSM. Since he was kind enough to grant me permission to share these PMs, I will post excerpts here (also saving him the hassle from retyping or posting it):
Originally Posted by 03ibmini
Just noticed your thread on the site tonight. I have an 03 MINI without nav but with factory aux, bluetooth, ipod and sirius. I also had the DPSM installed a few months back. After the install I had no problems using anyone of my devices.
Originally Posted by 03ibmini
One day I had the same thing happen with no sound through the speakers and a terrible clicking sound through the speakers and the lights on the amp in back were flashing i think red. I took the car in they too replaced 1 amp and it was faulty. They ordered a 2nd amp installed it, a new batch was just made and installed it it works flwlessly. Something PUMA advised them was to install a small cpu fan to the amp to promote better airflow.
My dealer Motor City MINI believes the first batch amps were very prone to overheating. They had another car do the same as mine.
My dealer Motor City MINI believes the first batch amps were very prone to overheating. They had another car do the same as mine.
Originally Posted by 03ibmini
I did have some hot weather a few weeks ago and spent a lot of time in my Cooper and no more trouble. The fan runs when the car is on and is fastened right to the amp I believe its a 30mm fan. I dont have the paperwork explaining the mod they made but it was approved by PUMA MINI's troubleshooting dept.
Still, the information is valuable (both on the amps and the fan mod) and I will be sharing it with my dealership!
That doesn't mean a wiring problem doesn't exist - I still want to ensure thorough testing after what Dan/PGT found on Tuesday.
More info, this time from 03ibmini's second PM:
Originally Posted by 03ibmini
I will look for my service paperwork this afternoon, but I would suggest that maybe you or your dealer contact my dealer and see what exactly they determined. <names and numbers deleted>
I don't think they would mind helping out.
Originally when I noticed it was malfunctioning I disconnected the wire from the amp as even if I turned the radio off I still heard the "clicking" noise. I had to do that so it would be bearable to drive to the dealer. Upon taking it there they determined I needed an amp, but the old one started functioning. They had to order a new one mine worked off and on the amps were on backorder in sept early oct and finely they got one in. I had it installed and another customer had one installed too.
I never blasted the radio or abused the amp in any way, I truly feel that there isn't enough airflow in the side panel and they and MINI felt the same. Which is why they installed a fan back there. It hasnt been very warm but I havent had any more troubles.
I truly do not belive that it has anything to do with any of your additional audio sources nav, ipod etc. I honestly believe it's the amps.
One thing too I may suggest it to have your dealer contact PUMA and tell them you talked to me and I know my dealer was going through them to figure out what to do they may be able to look up my car's info and help you. the last of my vin is <VIN info deleted>.
I don't think they would mind helping out.
Originally when I noticed it was malfunctioning I disconnected the wire from the amp as even if I turned the radio off I still heard the "clicking" noise. I had to do that so it would be bearable to drive to the dealer. Upon taking it there they determined I needed an amp, but the old one started functioning. They had to order a new one mine worked off and on the amps were on backorder in sept early oct and finely they got one in. I had it installed and another customer had one installed too.
I never blasted the radio or abused the amp in any way, I truly feel that there isn't enough airflow in the side panel and they and MINI felt the same. Which is why they installed a fan back there. It hasnt been very warm but I havent had any more troubles.
I truly do not belive that it has anything to do with any of your additional audio sources nav, ipod etc. I honestly believe it's the amps.
One thing too I may suggest it to have your dealer contact PUMA and tell them you talked to me and I know my dealer was going through them to figure out what to do they may be able to look up my car's info and help you. the last of my vin is <VIN info deleted>.
6th Gear
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,433
Likes: 1
From: Gloucester, MA, USA
I bet there's a date code on the DPSM amp, so it's possible for your dealership to determine if all the amps were from a similar build time.
My DPSM has *never* shut down due to temperature, and is installed in the standard lack-of-air-flow location. But it could be a newer model.
My DPSM has *never* shut down due to temperature, and is installed in the standard lack-of-air-flow location. But it could be a newer model.
a Class D amp is supposed to be infinitely more efficient meaning cooling isn't a problem usually (Alpine PDX series can be stacked...a no-no for normal amps). The fact that there's a wiring issue and an overheating DPSM amp are not isolated events
I just got off the phone with the MINI service manager, and arranged to meet with him to discuss the car tomorrow. I'll be bringing with me a bunch of printed out posts from this week, along with highlighted areas for them to take note of.
Also, I have 03ibmini's PMs printed out and ready to share, including contact info for his dealership.
Thanks everyone who has contributed - I really hope that the info & advice you all have provided this week is the breakthrough we were waiting for!
Also, I have 03ibmini's PMs printed out and ready to share, including contact info for his dealership.
Thanks everyone who has contributed - I really hope that the info & advice you all have provided this week is the breakthrough we were waiting for!
OVERDRIVE
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,233
Likes: 128
From: San Francisco
DPSM is mounted into the same location as the H/K amp, and you'd actually expect cooling to be more of a concern for the H/K because it is a conventional non-digital amp (which usually run hotter and draw more power than digital amps).
<threadjack>
Hmm, make one wonder if that is not the cause (or a contributing factor) for the number of dying HK amps I've seen here, as measured by requests for HK amps in marketplace.
</threadjack>
Edge, glad to hear there's some progress - DPSM for Christmas??
Hmm, make one wonder if that is not the cause (or a contributing factor) for the number of dying HK amps I've seen here, as measured by requests for HK amps in marketplace.
</threadjack>
Edge, glad to hear there's some progress - DPSM for Christmas??
I just want to say that every time I come to this thread, this is what goes through my mind:
"Are you KIDDING me??? He STILL does not have his car back???"
I need that beating-head-on-wall smiley...
You have the patience of a saint!
"Are you KIDDING me??? He STILL does not have his car back???"
I need that beating-head-on-wall smiley...
You have the patience of a saint!
Incidentally, you don't even have to read the thread to know how long it's been - I update my signature every week now.
OVERDRIVE
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,233
Likes: 128
From: San Francisco
If it is, I stand corrected. I had assumed not because I have not seen MINI describe it as such. When a product has a digital amp, the fact is usually publicized as a selling point (for DPSM, they went so far as to put "Digital Power" in its name). I know that the H/K does have digital signal processing in its preamp.
Last edited by rkw; Nov 16, 2007 at 09:13 PM.