Originally Posted by Minnie.the.Moocher

I listened to Integrals system in a 2nd gen car and it was pretty darn good. However for whatever reason he still hasn't released the 3rd gen ones and I moved on. I would have loved to have a fully configured system that just fit my car.

Kat you really should go back and make them put in a screw down mounting point for that sub. Non normal circumstances happen every day to unsuspecting drivers when someone smashes into them.

Originally Posted by Katgirl

Not bolted down, but doesn’t move, at all, under normal circumstances. I suppose there is a chance of it becoming a projectile in an accident, but I am not overly worried about it. Anything we have in the car is a potential projectile, I suppose. Something to think about, though.

Kat

Originally Posted by BMC_Kid

Hi Kevin, long time no see/hear. I was the guy that bought your very last subwoofer along with the Soundstage and I can assure everyone here, Kevin is the man. He knows what he is doing and not just taking wild shots in the dark. The systems he creates are specific for our MINIs and you will not find anything close to its quality in an reasonably close price point. The clarity of this system is world class and the bass is very distinct, not muddied at all, no distortion. I for one could not imagine hauling around a big old wooden block in the back on my MINI. To each his/her own.

Originally Posted by Minnie.the.Moocher

I listened to Integrals system in a 2nd gen car and it was pretty darn good. However for whatever reason he still hasn't released the 3rd gen ones and I moved on. I would have loved to have a fully configured system that just fit my car..

Originally Posted by Katgirl

You can read my thread about finding an installer. He used a type of dsp that worked well, though a few members said it wasn’t needed. I asked him about it, and he said those members were wrong. Bottom line is that my system sounds wonderful, now that I have the new subwoofer and amplifier. Kat

Originally Posted by giorgos

Did the installer come up with any factual arguments? If so, I would love to read them (in the thread concerned, of course).

By the way: a single band equalizer is not what a DSP is considered to be (not by a long shot).

Originally Posted by Katgirl

I am aware of what it is. He explained it to me in some detail.KAT

Originally Posted by giorgos

I said I wasn't going to reply anymore but I have to respond to your posts in another thread (I do it in this one, in order to keep that thread from becoming cluttered):

Despite the information presented in this thread, you still seem to place your trust in your installer (which anyone is perfectly entitled to do) and propagate his calling Kevin from Integral Audio and me (not to mention the manufacturer*) "wrong". I would appreciate it if you also posted some actual facts or arguments (whether his, yours or anyone else's) when doing so and not just backing it up with "he said so".
Thank you.

*: Wavetech does not call the LinQ a DSP because it isn't one. Instead, they (correctly) describe it as a 1-band (paragraphic) equalizer.

Originally Posted by Katgirl

I am not really sure what is going on here. I went to a professional car Audio shop to get my subwoofer and amp installed, and paid a significant amount to do so. My music sounds great now, so what is the issue that you and that other guy have? Is it that I am a woman, and you would rather I not post on a car forum? What’s the deal?

Kat

Originally Posted by Katgirl

What did I post that was not factual? I merely relayed the story of what I had done to my car’s audio system.

Originally Posted by Kazy

Might be some confusion since this is the second gen (R-series) forum and your car is third gen (F-series).

Originally Posted by jwzimm

I think a little calming in in order here.

The issue giorgos and Kevin were bringing up is that the Mini system typically does not need any correction of the signal to be fed to an external amp.

Many cars apply a lot of digital "tuning" to the audio in order to make up for deficiencies in the components (amp method, speakers, locations, etc...). In those cars if you simply tap the speaker wires (or even pre-amped line if available) and feed those into an amp you will be getting a heavily equalized signal that is not ideal for what you are trying to do. That is where LOC's and DSP's come in to play. They are designed to try and correct this equalization and bring the signal back to a "flat" state which is true to the audio source. That is best to feed an external component as you get rid of the factory "fixing" of the signal.

In the Mini, Kevin did a large amount of research and development and found that the Mini system does not apply this kind of correction so long as the signal is tapped at the correct location. He even developed and sells a plug and play harness that taps into these signals in the drivers footwell and provide a set of RCA outputs that can be fed to an external amp. Adding any form of DSP correction to the Mini is really unnecessary as there is nothing to "correct" and really is just an expensive component that adds very little, if any, benefit.

To your installers credit; the Mini is a pretty unique system and they are very likely not familiar with this level of detail. They likely were proceeding based on their experience with so many other car makes and the difficulties they have had adding systems to them. This thread by Kevin provides an incredible amount of information about the system. This is the adapter harness Kevin sells that will provide a clean, un-EQ'd signal for use in adding in external components: https://integralaudio.com/x9331-wiring-harness.html

Originally Posted by giorgos

1. The Wavetech LinkQ is not a DSP.
2. The Wavetech LinkQ is not "central" to an installation in which the Zapco ST500XMII is used to feed a subwoofer as whatever "signal altering" capabilities it provides are already provided for by the ST500XMII. In such a combination its usefulness is limited to being a very expensive high-low level adapter (which in itself is unecessary as the choice of a high level compatible amplifier would have remedied the need for a high-low level adapter and cinch cables altogether).

The backup for these is above (including excerpts from the respective manuals).

I would really appreciate it if you could factually explain why you (or the installer) would think that either of the above is not true. Thanks.





Whether or not any signal altering is present from factory:
The LinkQ does not add any functionality in this regard in Katgirl's setup (i.e. in combination with the given Zapco amp to drive a subwoofer), irrespectively of the car's acoustics/characteristics.

Just for the sake of completeness:
R56 do come with an altered sound output from factory:
- for cars with standard audio (i.e. 6 speaker setup, no factory amplifier) a "drop notch" at around 100Hz for rear channel speakers is inserted by the head unit.
- cars with "Hifi" and "Harman Kardon" option on the other hand have a "clean" signal output by the headunit and alter the signal (heavily) at a later stage by the factory amp.

Aftermarket installations on cars with standard audio hence do need some sort of signal processing or tapping off from front channels only. Installations on cars with Hifi or H/K on the other hand can simply tap off a clean signal from the head unit when circumventing the factory amplifier.

F56 on the other hand seem to leave the signal unaltered (I don't know myself but I do trust Kevin on this).

Originally Posted by Katgirl

Very interesting info. Thanks. My car is an F55, so probably same as F56. I know the shop owner was under the impression that the Link Q was a necessary component in my install. I will stop in and see him, to discuss the matter, if only to let him know the Mini is different from most cars. Also, if the part was truly unnecessary, I would like him to remove it, and reimburse me. I did my due diligence, and thoroughly vetted him before hiring him. He has a stellar reputation, so I am baffled as to why he wouldn’t have done better research on my particular car’s radio.

Kat

Originally Posted by giorgos

Removing the LinkQ now will either require replacing it with a standard high-low level adapter or also replacing the amp. In the latter case the cinch cable could also be replaced by thin, inexpensive speaker wire (since there is basically no current flowing through it).

Depending on how wires are laid and where everything is installed, it may be too much effort for the installer to agree to any of it (that is assuming they are willing to reimburse you at all, something I doubt given the installer's statements so far).