Doea anybody know what the available depth is for the front speakers is ? My MCS is in the shop today getting other mods, so I cant just go measure it. Want to order some for the front doors, but need to make sure what depth is available. The ones I am looking at are 2 7/8" deep. Will they work ?

 

I'm about to do mine too so I haven't taken measurements myself, but I've hunted the forums and I've seen pretty consistent numbers of only 1.7 - 1.75 inches before you get in the way of the window glass. Apparently you have to either build a spacer based on speaker size and the depth you need or there are a couple places where you can order them.

 

>>Doea anybody know what the available depth is for the front speakers is ? My MCS is in the shop today getting other mods, so I cant just go measure it. Want to order some for the front doors, but need to make sure what depth is available. The ones I am looking at are 2 7/8" deep. Will they work ?

I have replaced the front speakers with MB Quart DSD 213 5.25" midrange/woofers. They do fit but with the help of adapters and or spacers you can get other larger speakers to also fit- even up to 6.25" or maybe 7". You might need the help of an installer with some experience. Rough cost of the adapter/spacers is about $20+.
The problem with dropping in speakers is that the stock speakers are quite efficient and not bad for a basic speaker. I did only speakers and I would say that the upgrade was minimal or minor. Slightly better sound in the front, moderately better in the rear (MB Quart DKC 169 which are two way 6x9). The big problem is that the power of the head unit radio was not enough for the less efficient MB Quarts. Hence the minimal improvement.
If you are adding an amp then that would be better. But this adds to the cost.
There are many past threads on MB Quart and front speakers- there are pictures showing the doors and the speakers. I think that the door depth is something like 3/4th of an inch or roughly less than an inch. The stock speakers are molded into a raised speaker mount and it rides higher and away from the door- this clears the door better. HK speakers are the same way.

 

>>I'm about to do mine too so I haven't taken measurements myself, but I've hunted the forums and I've seen pretty consistent numbers of only 1.7 - 1.75 inches before you get in the way of the window glass. Apparently you have to either build a spacer based on speaker size and the depth you need or there are a couple places where you can order them.

This is correct. If your speaker mounting depth is greater than 1.75", create a spacer equal to the depth minus 1.75.

 

Thank you very much ! Anybody else out there have experience with other models ? I have looked at MB Quartz actually, and have been also looking at CTD which is another high end unit, but which are slightly deep. I guess from the replies, they are 5 1/4" stock, correct ?

And yes, I do plan on upgrading to possibly a JL Audio 300/4 Amp so you can adjust the front to rear outputs which will give better ambience. Just trying to work out the shallow door issue. To your knowledge to the manufacturers of each speaker typically offer spacer units ? Been awhile since I played with in car audio, but am going for good quality, but not over the top

 

I looked into this, and I can't cite the various references for information, but I made a CAD drawing of the stock speaker, and drew in some limit lines to the trim in front of the speaker and the window glass behind. I also did some testing of the stock speakers, and searched for what I consider a suitable "upgrade" speaker. (I'm an acoustics engineer in the automotive audio industry)

The stock speaker extends 1.28" behind its mounting surface. It extends 1.15" in front of its mounting surface. There is some space behind the speaker, to the window glass. The 1.75" rule is basically saying the same thing.

I haven't tried yet, but I think the best woofer for the front door is the Focal 7V4212 DB, based on performance. It plays 3 dB louder (more efficient) than the stock speaker, which is like having double the amplifier power, plays lower bass, handles twice the power, has a smoother frequency response curve. It's a 7" that, on paper, fits in the door. It's 3.13" deep, not including the surround. I started a CAD drawing of a bracket for this speaker for minihune. He changed direction with his install, but I have a speaker here, and would be willing to make a bracket and see if it fits in my car.

The Focal 165V2 kit is my second recommendation for the front door. It is an easier fit, is packaged with a tweeter and crossover for those less adventurous, but isn't more efficient than the stock speaker, and won't play as low as the 7V. If you'll never add an amp, I like the Infiniti G35 BOSE OEM speaker.

The "specs" for the stock 5.25" speaker are: 89.7 dB sensitivity, 75 Hz resonance, 75 Hz-10 kHz +/-3 dB, 3.5 ohm, 3 mm xmax, Qt=0.68. The crossover point with the stock tweeter is about 9kHz (be careful about going lower, image could be less stable). The tweeter has nice response from 3kHz-20kHz, and is as good as most aftermarket "balanced dome" tweeters. I'd leave it in the system unless you buy a 2-way kit, or really want an expensive 1" dome.

If you have trouble with the bracket, or whatever speaker you choose, send me a PM. Also, if you want more detailed speaker info, I can forward what I have on the stock speaker.

 

Thanks for your comments Tacotim- I hope your MCS is breaking in nicely. Drive safely.
I'm enjoying my sub (JL stealthbox). Gotta get the IJ soundtrack next.

 

Nearly broken in! Been reading about your system (minihune)...

Just test fitted the Focal 7V, 15 minutes work, all together. The driver would likely require trimming the flange on one side, and the door trim would require a larger opening and grille. Big sacrifice for some, small for others... On my way to hear some blues.

I've been noticing, on the HK system, the door trim vibrates a lot. Don't know if this is contributing objectionable coloration, or not, but the back side of the door trim, where it inserts into the door metal is the first place I would be adding mass, stiffening, and damping to my door. Since that panel is many times larger than the speaker, it only has to move a little to produce audible effects.

 

While I was at my audio shop I asked about upgrading my front speakers. The manager says that maybe additional work can be done with the door panel or the area in back of the speakers to minimize vibration or unwanted noises. So sometimes speakers can be changed sometimes other things. Got to look how it is put together and make custom adjustments. Some people add Dynamat but some installers like it and some do not- I guess it may depend on how it is installed and where like it is good on the floor boards- reduces noise.

 

The HK system has equalization to, potentially, mitigate colorations contributed by the trim, so I'm not going to alter mine without a day in the lab. Those of you working from the base system, without the benefit of EQ, and a lab, may see big benefits from minimizing the motion of this panel (there is no EQ to mitigate colorations).

I've seen ill effects from Dynamat (acoustic materials in general) applied less intelligently. More than anything, it's adding mass. Something heavier is a less efficient resonator, but often the frequency range causing problems will be impacted most by added stiffness. Damping only impacts a narrow frequency range, so don't kid yourself that dmping will solve your problem if you don't have the tools to zero in on which frequency and change the characteristics of the material you're applying...

I think stiffness (ribs) and added mass will do the most to decrease acoustic output of this panel (if it's found to contribute to objectionable colorations). If you believe me that Dynamat's biggest contribution is added mass, then you can probably stretch to believe that there are much less expensive ways to add mass-even ones that are easily removeable, so you can assess for yourself the benefit, before spending loads of money, or making a difficult to reverse change. Use double-sided tape to adhere pieces of MDF, or steel to the panel. These will eventually fall off, but you can add them to assess if the added mass changes the tonality noticeably or not, then add something more permanent as you determine how much, and where it's most effective...

Some of this panel's flexing will be in response (opposite) to motion of the speaker, and will cancel it out. Making this panel sit still will add output at low frequencies. Not a lot, but maybe enough to perceive a little extra low end, and perhaps in combination with a less colored midrange, may make a significant difference.

Be interesting to hear what folks find...

 

I never added dynamat. Too costly and too much disagreement with shops I talked to. Some say it is good and want to charge alot, some say it can be good but it depends who installs it where. some say it is wasted $$$ and effort.
Sort of like Tower Strut braces for the MINI!