The "how" is proprietary. The "what" is slip angle allowance. That's it. End of story.

 

What I'm hearing is "we do great things do DSC to make it better! you want it! ... no, we won't tell you what those great things *are*, however." This seems like a strange way to sell a product.

 

I cannot understand what seems to be the problem with the communication.
Slip angle: it activates at a higher force.
How MTH does this is not available to the public: it is proprietary.

 

don't worry about DSC not being there in the Oh Sh*t situations, it still is. The effects on the traction control are nothing short of fantastic.

For those of you demanding to know more about the changes, educate yourselves on how the system works, and then Don's answers make perfect sense.

Matt

 

I think the problem in communication is people seem to think DSC has something to do with traction. It has NOTHING to do with traction. You could spin tires all day in a burnout and DSC wouldn't do anything. DSC is a stability control system that corrects vehicle yaw in situations where individual wheels are slipping, and the nose of the car doesn't go where you want it to (Oversteer/Understeer/Spins/Fishtailing/etc).

ASC+T is a traction control system that cuts throttle input in a situation where the DRIVE WHEELS lose traction. Around a corner for instance, if you give it some gas and the wheels spin, engine power is reduced so you can maintain traction (Driving on wet roads, or in the snow.

Both of these systems are COMPLETELY different and have very little to do with each other.

DSC uses a yaw sensor and steering input sensors to determine the correct course of action, this is a safety only feature, and usually doesn't need to be turned off.

ASC+T uses the ABS sensors to detect varied rates of wheel spin between the drive wheels and reduces power to the wheels so you can maintain traction on slippery surfaces. A Limited Slip Diff will make this system a little less intrusive as well as Mini USA changed the software somewhat I believe. This system is primarily a convenience system, and doesn't always have a reason involving safety to be on (Sometimes it's unsafe... it may cut power while pulling into traffic, etc).

The problem is that these systems are tied together on the Mini (And most other cars), you cannot disable one or the other, it shuts down both systems when you hit your DSC button.

I believe what Don is trying to say is that the MTH file alters the input of the ASC+T system (Drive Wheel traction control ONLY) so that it is less intrusive, aka does not click on as fast, and when it does, it does so more smoothly rather than just cutting power completely.

No fighting, we're all fellow Mini dorks

 

Actually, what is said is correct as there is only one system now and it is called DSC (Dynamic Stability Control). It does, however, incorporate the older ASC functions but it is not called that any longer.... Just good ol DSC...

 

Not entirely true, daflake, unless they stopped offering ASC+T when you don't get the DSC option. DSC may be "newer", but it's also an option. The standard nanny is ASC+T.

 

Isnt it funny that MINI sells us these cars with ASC, DSC and all that jazz....and we go wooooo yes please on the options list, but at the end of the day people dont have a clue what they "actually" do. I think some people need to educate themselves (like the Dr. advises) then all will be apparent to what DMH is saying. He has answered the question and some seem to be beating him up for fun by silly snide comments...thats not what MINI WORLD is about. If people seem "unhappy" by his comments, then why not contact MTH direct ?

Just my opinion of course lol

 

they know what these systems do, just not how they do it. Its the how that's needed to understand Dons comments.

Matt

 

I'm not sure why this is such a touchy topic.

There is nothing unusual about not sharing proprietary design information. You buy hundreds of products (including cars) that you will not be told about the specifics of because it would jeapordize the designers exclusivity. It is normal to explain the effects and benefits as a rule.

DSC like almost every street driving systems aimed at reducing driver work load and effort is implemented for the average driver. The average driver has a very low skill level as measured by advanced driver assessment sytems and therefore it is often of benefit to them. (this is a measured statistic and not a shot at anyone).

Conversely DSC is not more effective in advanced driving circles where it defeats some of the driving tecniques used to gain advantage both in racing and on the road. It is certainly true that if you believe it is better for you to have DSC on then that is a good decision.

 

Let me rephrase this...

ASC+T is a standard on the MCS, but not the MC from the beginning (06 models). When you add DSC, it integrates the entire system into one functioning unit and is no longer ASC+T but rather a bigger system with more features called DSC. If you want to break it down, fine, but if a person refers to the entire system as DSC, then that should be ok as really that is what it is.

 

Agreed!

 

Well explained.

 

sad, but that's the case with a lot of stuff now...

Matt

 

The only reason I would never get one of these aftermarket flashes is that it messes with DSC. I didnt pay 500 extra to have some company change it on me. I paid 500 for LSD though, and that works fine if you just flip off the DSC. DSC shouldnt be trouched, neither astc. That's just dangerous, stupid and irresponsible of an aftermarket company. I cant imagine an aftermarket having ACTUALLY run 1000's of car tests like bmw has for safety.

had to put my four cents in there.

 

is what Chevrolet provides on the Z06, Active Handling plus Traction Control. "Active Handling" is the same as DSC, meaning oversteer correction, etc. Traction control is self evident. Corvette has a switch to deactivate both A/H and T/C, but by holding the switch down for 5 seconds, you can invoke "Competition Mode" which disables T/C but leaves A/H on. Great for the track.

Jacob

 

The asct system works to allow grip on snow. It is perfectly balanced to make sure the tires do not slip but keep a steady level of traction. Less than this really sux and is pointless to even call it astc. My best guess is that they took it out so can keep on DSC for safety on turns in bad condition and spin out for fun from standstills on roadways and on sharp banking turns in a racing setting. It stops the complaint people have about pulling out of some place fast and the engine cuts power. however, a simple flick of a switch stops this from happening, a lot nicer than messing with a safety system.

Tweaks to DSC I would understand as being possibly better if thoroughly tested. Astc is a much more simple idea that either stops tires from slipping on ice and snow or doesnt.

 

When we were MINI shopping I came across reference to fatal accident statistics from when Mercedes Benz's version of DSC was first introduced. Accidents involving fatalities for the stability control-equipped MBs were down 30% in Germany while rates remained flat for all other vehicles.

DSC has not intervened in the two plus years that I've driven MINIs. I wouldn't have a MINI without it as it is my belief that sooner or later I will encounter a circumstance where no amount of driving skill will allow me to safely avoid a collision while keeping the car miving in the direction I want it to. I'm also not naive enough to see DSC as a substitute for good judgement; at a certain point basic laws of physics rule, and you're GOING to crash.

Traction control in the MINI is another story. As applied in the MINI it would be just about perfect as a WINTER MODE. Just for kicks I would often stop in the middle of my parents' steep snow covered driveway, put the car in first, and floor it. Without fail, our MINI slowly ascends in a straight line as fast as the tarction afforded by our snow tires will allow.

Pulling into fast traffic from a stop, even on dry pavement, on the other hand it downright scary, and this is the only time that I switch the system off. As mentioned previously, it's also a bit of a kill-joy on fast exits to tight corners. I suspect that in my case this is more down to overly exuberant use of the throttle than is advisable in a short, light, FWD car in these situations. I take the blinking yellow light on the dash as a signal to work on smoother application of power.

A three-season ASC SPORT MODE would be very welcome if it could be implemented without affecting the DSC functionality. This should be doable as the two systems are triggered by different inputs (inconsistent yaw/steering wheel position vs. unequal front wheel speeds if I'm not mistaken).

 

I'd love to see this applied to the MINI. Is there any word yet on how these systems will work on the '07+ MINIs? I've noticed that the new center stack row of toggles no longer includes a DSC/ASC switch.

 

The traction control intervention on the Mini is downright scary. How many of us have gassed it to get into the flow of traffic, only to have the car loose pretty much all power, then you have to wait, and hope that the opening in traffic doesn't dissapear because you're half way into it! The modification I have to the traction control allow me to floor it through those situations, and even if there is a puddle, it keeps a good amount of power going to the wheels. It's frigging awsome, and is how the system should have come from the factory. Just getting base MTH for these features is well worth the $.

So, if BMW did all these tests to make the system good, why do we have a friggin scary system from the factory?

Matt

 

Agreed! MTH doesn't turn off the DSC(ASC) option, they tune it to work better with your mini. However I'm sure IF you ask MTH the can leave the DSC alone. Me personally I love it! It's one of the reasons I went with MTH in the first place and probably stay with MTH. For ME the factory DSC settings were just too touchy, especially once I started to mod and gain more HP. -- Johan

 

uh. if you are entering traffic you turn it off. every other reason to mess with DSC is retarded. off, or factory bmw settings are two safe options.

 

True, but now I don't have to mess with it at all. DSC is still there (have had it kick in), but it is not as sensitive. MTH did a great job of modding it.