I've got H-sport springs, a rear swaybar set to stiffest, RDR front camber plates and H-sport lower rear adjustable control arms with autocross alignment all in my daily driver MCS.

Would the next suspension upgrade of coil overs be advisable or more of a hassle? I'd rather find settings that I can run at autocross or at SCCA lapping track sessions that I don't have to keep adjusting.

I usually have 17x7" rims and 215/45-17 street tires and 15x7" Kosei K1 TS/ Kumho 205/50-15 tires for autocross or 15x5.5" rims and 205/50-15 tires for the track.

Any advice on PSS9 for an MCS looking for better handling, lower height, less body roll, and lower run times? Am I asking for too much?

 

I'll bump since Minihune and I have basically the same suspension setup.

 

The biggest advantage IMHO of coilovers is that you can adjust your shock's rebound and/or compression settings for street, autox, track, etc.
You can also fine tune the handling of your car depending on preference, weather and surface. This is very important if your MINI is a daily driver.

You also get to adjust your ride height within the range available to the particular coilover. Plus you can then corner balance the car -- which is more important for track than autox.

The disadvantge is cost -- plus the fact that you now have to figure out where in the range of adjustment you want to be.

My experience with coilovers on the MCS is limited to Leda's and PSS9's.

• Both are adjustable, but the Leda's' are easier to adjust
• the Leda's allow you to pick the springs and rates
• the PSS9 comes with progressive springs
• The PSS9s are cheaper
• The ride with the PSS9s is less harsh (IMHO as this is subjective)

Hope this helps

David

 

David,

Thanks for your comments.
I'm looking at PSS9s to add to my autocross/daily driver MCS. I have limited track opportunities- mostly short course only 0.7 miles per lap.

I'd like to hear what PSS9 settings you use for street vs autocross vs track and what ride height you decided on.

I talked to Eric from Helix13 about PSS9s which he sells. Here are some thoughts-

The PSS9s are well suited for a dual function MINI (street and autocross/track) but they are not a full on track suspension. They are suited to be easily adjusted for performance or comfort. While significantly more costly than just lowering springs, they are much less costly than dedicated track coil overs (harsh ride not suitable for street use).

So the benefits are not just for autocross or track but significant for daily use. The order of converting from lowering springs to PSS9s would be-
Install the PSS9s and corner measure the height on each wheel well to get them more or less even and to your liking. Lower is not necessarily better as the tendency to bottom out is greater with lower height but center of gravity is also better when lower.

Next get corner weighting done at a shop with the driver in the car and all fluids (esp gasoline) full. Then test different stiffness settings for street vs performance use. If happy then do alignment, but consider less severe alignment settings for negative camber or toe in since now you can adjust ride height and suspension alot more than before. Maybe as little as front camber of -1.0 degrees vs the -2.3 degrees I was running before and maybe a toe out of 1/16" rather than 1/8".

The downside of the coil overs in general?
Besides the cost ($1600-2500 plus labor) you need to be committed to doing the correct adjustments and tuning for the suspension for your needs which can vary from car to car and driver to driver. Having so many things to adjust can be both good and bad. Yes you can fine tune but some owners become more concerned about adjustments and don't spend enough time driving their car to learn how to use the suspension they have just fine tuned.

In the end it is alot of driver skill with the right equiptment that will give you the edge on your competition. It can also be fun to learn more about how the suspension works and how changes can affect handling.

Meanwhile a smoother riding street suspension would just be icing on the cake. Maybe my wife and daughter won't complain as much .
I hope they don't see the bill.

 

If you get PSS9s install them and like you say eyeball or measure them to get them even - go low, but not too low. Then drive them for a week or so and let them settle.

I had mine on for 2 months before I got the car corner weighted. This step is optional for autox but it will not hurt the car - just your wallet. You don't have to sit in the car while you do it (they can put weights in the drivers seat) but you should have the car configured just like you would autox it. the goal here is to get the cross or diagonals as close to 50% as possible. I was able to get the following:

• LF 853
• RF 858
• LR 609
• RR 530
• LF to RR Diagonal 48.5%
• RF to LR Diagonal 51.5%
• Front 60%
• Rear 40%

Then get an alignment. Stay with the same specs you had - try not to change more than one variable at a time. Keep the same tire pressures as well. You do this as a baseline then you can try different rebound settings to see what you want to run.

Try to get some autox test and tune time. If not do this from run to run at an event. Try the extremes of the rebound settings first. Take notes on how the car feels at each setting.

• Try full soft (9) on all corners.
• Then try full stiff (1) on all corners
• Next go full stiff in the front and full soft in the rear
• Then switch this - full soft in front, full stiff in the rear
• Now try the middle ground 5 in front 6 in the rear.

I'm sure you get the picture. What you should fine (at least I did) was that the stiffer the rears were in relation to the fronts the more the car wanted to oversteer on lift in a corner.

I've ended up using 5 or 6 in the front and 7 or 8 in the rear for most of my autox events. I tweak it at the event based on conditions.

After you are done dialing in your new coilover settings - then experiment with alignment specs. I run less front negative camber because I have a stiffer front bar and therefore I get a better tire contact patch with -2.0 to -2.2 (less roll). I run toe out in front with zero toe in the rear. I keep the rear camber about 1 degree less than the front (-1.0 to -1.2).

I've rambled enough. Our first autox of the season is March 20 and my car is not yet ready - lots to do.

Hope this helps

David

 

I installed the pss9 and it feels like a touring racing car! The car is dropped and it cornered way better than the H-sport. I am running 205/40/18 Toyo's and I have it 4 in front and 6 in rear. just loving it!

 

David - Can you offer some suggestions for spring rates? This will be for a daily driver that sees the track 1-2 times a year. Thanks!

matt ma

 

Well if your car is a daily driver with only 1-2 track days a year I'd pick the PSS9s over the Leda's because they are less harsh than the Leda's on the street.

If you do a lot of track stuff I'd go with the Leda's or KW's.

If you go with the Leda's I'd recommennd 250F barrel shaped spring designed by Leda for the MINI, and 275 or 300 in the rear. Understand these are linear spring vs the progressive springs on the PSS9s.

 

Once you get coil overs you get added adjustability.

The advantage of coil overs lies not in the adjustability of the ride height- almost any height you want and you can change it, but rather in adjustment of stiffness AND in adjusting for corner weighting (in the case of the MINI diagonal weight balancing). Corner balancing helps for both track and autocross. You'll need to be in the car when this is being done and fill up all the fluids (gas most important).

Read about how to do corner balancing using scales-
http://www.grmotorsports.com/cornerweight.html
or
http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache...+balance&hl=en

I also replaced my front and rear sway bar endlinks. Fronts are longer and rears are shorter, while they are sold in pairs you can get by with one. Not only are they stronger than stock endlinks they allow for adjustments in length.

I'm going with Alta endlinks that are made of aluminum. I would have got Webb endlinks but someone bought the last pair I had my eye on so they are out of stock with none on the horizon- ugh.
Steve's also sells endlinks similar to the Alta with polyurethane bushings.
The Alta endlinks are a tad heavier than the stock ones by a few ounces.

Bilstein PSS9s are about 39 pounds for the full kit and replace stock suspension parts weighing about 41 pounds.
Front Spring rates: 325lb.in
Rear Spring rates: 345lb.in with a 110lb.in Tender coil

 

After much testing of the various adjustment settings I have found-
Setting 9 in the front and rears works fine for street driving.
Setting 1 in the front and rears works for autocross. (I also tried 2)

The advantage of picking the two extremes is as I change my wheels I turn the adjustment dial to the opposite end (takes all of a few seconds).

I did the corner balancing myself using the grassroots instructions.
I'd say look at static weight first and balance out what you can front to rear and left to right. I removed my subwoofer and rear left seat back/headrests.
Make sure all fluids are full (gas/coolant/oil).

Find a good height for front and rear. I adjusted to a ride height of about 24.5 inches using 17" wheels and 24" using 15" wheels. I could have gone a little lower about .25" but I didn't want to rub using the 17" daily street wheels. Also I don't know if any settling will take place- only a month so far.

As you adjust do only a little on one corner at a time as it affects all four corners. As long as you do only partial turns (a quarter or half turn) the ride height will be OK but you have to check as you go. Reset the scale now and then.

Biggest problem is the springs don't really settle that well in between adjustments no matter how hard I pushed down on the car or rolled it. This would affect the weights until the springs got in the right place (no binding).
But you can't really drive much since you'll have the endlinks loosened and off for the front and rear (dangling).

I did have to adjust the length of the rear endlink to be neutral after corner balancing was done.

Before corner balancing my
LF to RR weight was 52.5%
RF to LR weight was 47.5%
With me in the car.

Front weight RF and LF was 61.5%
Rear weight LR and RR was 38.5%
Left weight LF and LR was 51.3% (you want as close to 50%)
Total weight 2622 without driver.
My final cross weights were within 0.5% balanced.